Delphinho123 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 And as for being the first midfielder to score 10 in 20 odd years. He's done that in the Championship and more often than not, in an advanced role. If we're dishing that acolade out, give it to Adomah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: And as for being the first midfielder to score 10 in 20 odd years. He's done that in the Championship and more often than not, in an advanced role. If we're dishing that acolade out, give it to Adomah. We are a championship team though playing in the championship. Just because we are playing a lower level than before doesn't change the feat. Unless we are able to get players of the quality of Platt to come here, which I don't think we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 15 hours ago, rodders0223 said: First player to score 10 goals from midfield in 20 odd years, one of the best passers in the league in terms of controlling the game, up near the top for interceptions and tackles. One of the fittest players in the league who covers an incredible amount of ground, typified when we lost the ball at a corner and Connor had the legs and heart to outrun everyone and force Hoillett wide near the corner flag. Even then he still had plenty in the tank to keep his composure and get back into the team shape.We need better? For what? To challenge for Europe? He is one of the best midfielders in the league ffs. you forgot first player to also successfully get left for dead by a pacey player and try and hack them down from behind in every match tbf on Tuesday , he nearly got the player but he was just a little bit to quick for CH I'm kinda undecided on him fwiw , I don't think he is premier league class ..but then nor are we and it could be in the right team with the right role he'd look better than he currently does but I don't think I'd class him as one of the best midfielders in the league If I'm honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 19 hours ago, Cizzler said: He has had an extra 8 games to do it (against worse opposition) than all our other midfielders in that time-frame tbf. See, that's what I think he doesn't do. He doesn't control the game. He presses well and gets into goal-scoring positions (and has a knack of finishing them), but IMO he isn't one of the best passing midfielders in the league. Neves, Cairney, Johansen and Woods (Brentford) all keep possession a lot better than him, and actually dictate the tempo their sides play at. Maddison is a much better passer too, although he plays a more similar role to Jack. I would start him FWIW, and I think our other CM spot is more of an urgent need of an upgrade - but let's be realistic. You could argue that tshibola is probably a better passer of a ball than hourihane but hes incredibly lazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 13 hours ago, Johnnyp said: You could argue that tshibola is probably a better passer of a ball than hourihane but hes incredibly lazy. You could but then that would be like a comparison between a great white shark and the loch ness monster and which is the most potent killer. Who knows if Tshibola exists and even if he does what is he actually capable of? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 4/12/2018 at 14:50, Delphinho123 said: 'one of the best passers in the league in terms of controlling the game' - Absolutely not. He is absolutely not one of the best midfielders in the league. If we had one of the best midfielders in the league, we'd be up automatically by now. In the system we play - 4-2-3-1 - the 2 in midfield are usually the weakest part of the team. Hence why they have been rotated so much and Bruce still doesn't know who to play there. I watch Hourihane play a lot and he seems to shy away from the ball and absolutely doesnt control games. He does get into goal scoring positions which I will give him credit for but more often than not, when he scores, it masks an average game IMO. Take Blues for example, I actually thought he was our worst player that game but you can't take that strike away from him! As I've mentioned, he is OK for where we are now but if we don't go up, I'd be looking at that central midfield area as a priority. If we go up, he wont be good enough in the prem. He was considered by many to be the best midfielder in the league before we bought him. People on this board would not shut up about him before he signed for us. Now that he has, all of a sudden we underrate him. Football fans are very strange. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Keyblade said: He was considered by many to be the best midfielder in the league before we bought him. People on this board would not shut up about him before he signed for us. Now that he has, all of a sudden we underrate him. Football fans are very strange. I think is was a misjudgment..... but I think he is ok.....a decent player is all. He hasn't got the ball control to be one of the best midfielders( and that makes it difficult to dominate) but he can strike a ball well.....His positional play is ok sometimes and iffy on others a bit inconsistent.....He reminds me of Andy Blair, a bit hit and miss. I think too many views on players are made from watching highlights and not the finer points of the game.....we need to see the warts'n all. ps but we need to appreciate where we was as a team when we signed him. pps But I ask myself, is he better than Westwood?......depending how it is answered, leads on to another question. Edited April 17, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: He was considered by many to be the best midfielder in the league before we bought him. People on this board would not shut up about him before he signed for us. Now that he has, all of a sudden we underrate him. Football fans are very strange. By who? Over excited Villa fans on VT or a general consensus? He's a limited midfielder who does well at Championship level and has a good shot on him. I'm not sure that's underrating him, either. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, TRO said: I think is was a misjudgment..... but I think he is ok.....a decent player is all. He hasn't got the ball control to be one of the best midfielders( and that makes it difficult to dominate) but he can strike a ball well.....His positional play is ok sometimes and iffy on others a bit inconsistent.....He reminds me of Andy Blair, a bit hit and miss. I think too many views on players are made from watching highlights and not the finer points of the game.....we need to see the warts'n all. ps but we need to appreciate where we was as a team when we signed him. pps But I ask myself, is he better than Westwood?......depending how it is answered, leads on to another question. He reminds me of a more advanced Westwood. (Postionally) One of those that I get told is good because I don't notice him - but really, he isn't very good at all. You can see by the amount Bruce rotates that he has no idea who is best central midfielder is. He is probably better than Lansbury, but not by a lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: He reminds me of a more advanced Westwood. (Postionally) One of those that I get told is good because I don't notice him - but really, he isn't very good at all. You can see by the amount Bruce rotates that he has no idea who is best central midfielder is. He is probably better than Lansbury, but not by a lot. I think that is the dilemma managers have when one is no better than the other.....or .....you gain one attribute and lose another, which equates to much the same. I am not sure, I understand the theory, that he is good because we don't notice him.....I get the theory we don't always notice the ugly work being done, because we are not really looking out for it, so I do get that. Jack, is noticeable because, he is just short of serving the hot dogs.....He does the lot ( now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, bobzy said: By who? Over excited Villa fans on VT or a general consensus? He's a limited midfielder who does well at Championship level and has a good shot on him. I'm not sure that's underrating him, either. I'm talking about before he was ever even linked with us. I don't know how informed these opinions were, bit the general consensus was that he was one of the best CMs in the league. I mean, he had something like 12 assists before he joined us in January, which is actually pretty incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Before we signed him I thought he was one of the best in the league. I don't think that now. I love him don't get me wrong but he has his limitations. He is fairly good at most things apart from being quick. He can pass, tackle, works his arse off, has a good set piece delivery and can score goals. However, he goes missing far too much for my liking but then again that is usually in games where we have Taylor and Elmo hoofing it up to Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I'm talking about before he was ever even linked with us. I don't know how informed these opinions were, bit the general consensus was that he was one of the best CMs in the league. I mean, he had something like 12 assists before he joined us in January, which is actually pretty incredible. He now has 10 goals and 2 assists, so perhaps he is splitting his effectiveness in to goals as opposed to just assists. Edited April 17, 2018 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, TRO said: He now has 10 goals and 2 assists, so perhaps he is splitting his effectiveness in to goals as opposed to just assists. He had 7 goals, 14 assists last season. That is a superb haul for a central midfielder, as is 10 goals this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Wouldn't cut it in the Premier League. As much as I love our midfield none of them apart from Grealish would stand out if we got back to the prem imo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted April 17, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: He had 7 goals, 14 assists last season. That is a superb haul for a central midfielder, as is 10 goals this season. A lot of those assists would be from set pieces. He had a great delivery when at Barnsley. Frustrates me that Snodgrass takes them all, good as they are, I’d like them to mix it up a bit between them. Plus direct free kicks. Hourihane needs to be taking these ahead of Snoddy. A return of 10 goals is quality considering he’s not on pens or free kicks. One of my favourite players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 8 hours ago, TRO said: I think is was a misjudgment..... but I think he is ok.....a decent player is all. He hasn't got the ball control to be one of the best midfielders( and that makes it difficult to dominate) but he can strike a ball well.....His positional play is ok sometimes and iffy on others a bit inconsistent.....He reminds me of Andy Blair, a bit hit and miss. I think too many views on players are made from watching highlights and not the finer points of the game.....we need to see the warts'n all. pps But I ask myself, is he better than Westwood?......depending how it is answered, leads on to another question. 1. Agree 2. Agree 3.Agree 4. Agree 5. Yes. He is. Also there is no doubt in my mind Grealish is more effective when he plays, he supports Jacks role very well. My only real criticism, he goes into hiding in games......he will be everywhere, then for 30 minutes almost seem to actively avoid the play. Then he’s back last half hour. Often does good work towards the end of games. I would also criticise him for too much sideways and backwards passing but I suspect that’s not of his choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I'm quite confused about him . . . I often think he doesn't look very good when he's playing, but then the team seems to play worse, on average, when he's not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted April 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted April 18, 2018 19 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: You can see by the amount Bruce rotates that he has no idea who is best central midfielder is. He is probably better than Lansbury, but not by a lot. Quote Midfielder PLD G YC RC Henri Lansbury 6 (4) 1 1 1 Glenn Whelan 28 (3) 1 5 0 Robert Snodgrass 37 (1) 7 9 0 Jack Grealish 17 (8) 3 4 0 Conor Hourihane 39 (1) 10 8 0 Joshua Onomah 21 (12) 4 4 0 Andre Green 6 (1) 1 2 0 Birkir Bjarnason 14 (12) 4 1 0 Mile Jedinak 15 (8) 1 2 0 Callum O'Hare 4 (4) 0 2 0 Albert Adomah 34 (4) 15 1 0 Jordan Lyden 0 (2) 0 0 0 He has played more than anyone else, id say he knows at least 1 of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted April 18, 2018 Share Posted April 18, 2018 I still want to see what out midfield would be like without a holding midfielder. I get that in games having Bjarnasson, Jedinak or Whelan massively helps the team, but are we negating our attacking intent and ability in not playing 'footballing midfielders' We've seen recently that we are a better team when we go at the opposition, and playing Hourihane and Lansbury together with Grealish playing a free role ahead of them could help us to do this more often. Lansbury Hourihane Grealish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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