Aston Villa History Thread

[VILLAMARV]

On 1/14/2017 at 15:34, Lichfield Dean said:

Wow! I never knew that - I'm sure I should have known that. What an interesting bit of trivia.

We drew 2-2. Two goals apiece for Peter Withe and Mark Falco. Against one of the more legendary of Spurs line ups including Clemence, Hughton, Perryman, Ardilles, Villa, Archibald and Hoddle. In the days before penalty shoot outs the match was drawn and the trophy was shared. Both teams get credited with a win and as I said held the trophy officially for 6 months each.

The Charity Shield is a weird competition. Villa wise we have only appeared 4 times. It didn't start until 1908, so 5 titles and 4 FA Cup wins of ours happened before the competition even existed (Although it's predecessor The Sheriff of London Charity Shield was an annual amateurs v professionals match from the 1898/99 season onwards). It wasn't until 1974 that it permanently settled on being between the First Division Champions and FA Cup winners with Wembley as it's permanent home.

1910 was our first appearance after our 6th title. Against Brighton and Hove Albion who were the Southern League champions. Brighton won 1-0 at Stamford Bridge. The only time the Southern Champions ever won. And the only time we would play under that format.

1957 was the next appearance after our last FA Cup win. The Busby Babes exacted revenge for us stopping them doing the double the previous year with a 4-0 drubbing. The match was played at Old Trafford with all the goals coming in the second half.

1972 brought about our third appearance and was definitely the weirdest as Third Division Champions we squared off against Manchester City who had finished 4th in the league after Derby (League) and Leeds (FA Cup) had declined the invitation to play. We lost 1-0 to a Francis Lee penalty at Villa Park.

1981 was the only time we emerged victorious and it was with a draw.

So with 7 titles and 7 FA Cups tucked away in the trophy cabinet we have only ever appeared in 4 Charity Shields, never won a match and only ever officially held the trophy for 6 months in our entire history.

Edited January 16, 2017 by VILLAMARV

[VILLAMARV]

Another question popped up (from the Jan '18 transfer window thread) about what players have re-signed for us. And whether loans like Milner 'count'. As ever in this thread correct it if it's wrong! (especially the transfer fees!) In this instance it might well be as I've mostly used wikipedia as a source but it looks like there have only ever been 4.

Seems Andy Gray was the first - after Joining us from Dundee Utd in '75 and winning the Golden Boot in '77 as well as the League Cup, following it up by being young player of the year and PFA player's player of the year in '78 he joined Wolves in '79 for an English record fee of £1.5m where he picked up a league cup winners medal. In 1983 he joined Everton for £250k and had 2 successful years there winning the FA Cup, Charity Shield, 1st Division title and European Cup Winners Cup. Lineker's arrival prompted his departure from Everton and he re-signed for Villa in '85 for £150k and the ill-fated second spell was upon us. He left in '87 to join the Baggies, but would be back in the dug-out alongside Big Ron a few years later of course.

Gordon Sidney Cowans - signed 3 times for us did Sid. First in 1976 after completing his apprenticeship. Between then and his departure for Bari in 1985 he won the League Cup, First Division, European Cup, and European Super Cup with us. As well as picking up a young player of the year award. He left for Serie A with a clause in his Bari contract to give us first refusal should they decide to sell. After 3 years in Italy and after GT's arrival and subsequent promotion he re-joined Villa in '88. Big Ron sold him to Blackburn in '91 and re-signed him on a free transfer in the close season of '93. He then joined Derby the following February. Obviously he would go on to return home as a coach.

Steve Staunton - After breaking into the Liverpool side in the late '80's and winning the FA Cup, 1st Division title and 2 Charity Shields there he joined Villa in '91 for £1.1m where he helped us win 2 League Cups ('94 + '96). He left to return to Liverpool on a free transfer in 1998 before returning 2 years later - also on a free transfer in 2000. Picking up an (illustrious ) Intertoto Cup winners medal before leaving for Coventry on another free transfer in 2003.

James Milner - First a spell on loan from Newcastle in the 2005-2006 season as a makeweight in Solano's own return to Newcastle under O'Leary before signing permanently in 2008 for a reported £12m under O'Neill. Picked up the young player of the year award in 2010 and was sold to Man City that summer in deal of Stephen Ireland and money 'worth' a reported £26m. 

[sidcow]

6 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

Another question popped up (from the Jan '18 transfer window thread) about what players have re-signed for us. And whether loans like Milner 'count'. As ever in this thread correct it if it's wrong! (especially the transfer fees!) In this instance it might well be as I've mostly used wikipedia as a source but it looks like there have only ever been 4.

Seems Andy Gray was the first - after Joining us from Dundee Utd in '75 and winning the Golden Boot in '77 as well as the League Cup, following it up by being young player of the year and PFA player's player of the year in '78 he joined Wolves in '79 for an English record fee of £1.5m where he picked up a league cup winners medal. In 1983 he joined Everton for £250k and had 2 successful years there winning the FA Cup, Charity Shield, 1st Division title and European Cup Winners Cup. Lineker's arrival prompted his departure from Everton and he re-signed for Villa in '85 for £150k and the ill-fated second spell was upon us. He left in '87 to join the Baggies, but would be back in the dug-out alongside Big Ron a few years later of course.

Gordon Sidney Cowans - signed 3 times for us did Sid. First in 1976 after completing his apprenticeship. Between then and his departure for Bari in 1985 he won the League Cup, First Division, European Cup, and European Super Cup with us. As well as picking up a young player of the year award. He left for Serie A with a clause in his Bari contract to give us first refusal should they decide to sell. After 3 years in Italy and after GT's arrival and subsequent promotion he re-joined Villa in '88. Big Ron sold him to Blackburn in '91 and re-signed him on a free transfer in the close season of '93. He then joined Derby the following February. Obviously he would go on to return home as a coach.

Steve Staunton - After breaking into the Liverpool side in the late '80's and winning the FA Cup, 1st Division title and 2 Charity Shields there he joined Villa in '91 for £1.1m where he helped us win 2 League Cups ('94 + '96). He left to return to Liverpool on a free transfer in 1998 before returning 2 years later - also on a free transfer in 2000. Picking up an (illustrious ) Intertoto Cup winners medal before leaving for Coventry on another free transfer in 2003.

James Milner - First a spell on loan from Newcastle in the 2005-2006 season as a makeweight in Solano's own return to Newcastle under O'Leary before signing permanently in 2008 for a reported £12m under O'Neill. Picked up the young player of the year award in 2010 and was sold to Man City that summer in deal of Stephen Ireland and money 'worth' a reported £26m. 

Wow. I have absolutely no recollection of Staunton going back to Liverpool then coming back here. I would say it must have been during my druggy years if I had any. 

[VILLAMARV]

World Cup time is upon us and the question popped up in the Jedinak thread about who was the last Villa player to score in a World Cup match while at our club. Made me wonder what Villa players have EVER scored at a World Cup. And actually who played and what happened and all that. So like everything in this thread correct me if I'm wrong but a little light reading suggests that this is the history of Aston Villa players at the FIFA World Cup.

I believe Peter McParland was the first ever Villa player to both appear and also score at a World Cup in Sweden in 1958 for Northern Ireland.

Opening the scoring against Argentina in a 3-1 loss in their second match, he then grabbed both goals against W.Germany as Northern Ireland took the lead twice in a 2-2 draw that meant a play off against the much fancied Czech team they had already beaten in the first match to progress. McParland equalised just before half time before scoring the winner in extra time in a 2-1 win. Before a 4-0 loss to France saw them go out in the Quarter Finals.

1958 - Peter McParland - Played 5 games. Scored 5 goals. (Northern Ireland)

I don't think we had anyone else represented until Allan Evans played against New Zealand in the 5-2 win for Scotland in 1982. They went out in the group stage - it's Scotland.

1982 - Allan Evans - Played 1 game. (Scotland)

1986 came along and we had Steve Hodge in the England squad. He actually did ok and was part of the upturn in form against Poland and Paraguay. Got 10 mins against Portugal, Came on for Robson against Morocco. Started and finished the other 3 games and of course, what we all remember is his contribution for the Hand of God incident obviously... and then he went to Spurs. Didn't he lay on a couple of Lineker's goals that year? Either way he played 5 games. And I could never understand as a kid why we didn't like him.

1986 - Steve Hodge - Played 5 games (England)

Italia '90 saw 3 Villa players appear. God and Tony Cascarino for the Republic of Ireland and obviously David bloody Platt. Despite being in the same group they didn't play against each other as Platt was not selected for the first game. Platt got half an hour against the Dutch, 5 mins against Egypt and was a 71st minute sub on that fateful night against the Belgians. Super volley, last kick of the game, England through and THAT smile. Best ever World Cup moment for me that. And he hadn't played 90 minutes in the tournament! As for the other boys and Ireland's greatest moment McGrath and Cascarino both played in every match. Cascarino scored Ireland's 4th in the shoot out against Romania before going out to Italy in Rome in the Quarters. Platt started against Cameroon and re-paid Robson's decision with the opening goal that day. He also started the Semi and converted England's 3rd penalty in the shoot out. Next up... Pearce and Waddle...and the rest is history! Platt also started and scored England's goal in the 3rd and 4th place play off which often gets forgotten.

1990 - David Platt - Played 6 games. Scored 3 goals (England)
1990 - Paul McGrath - Played 5 games (R.O.I.)
1990 - Tony Cascarino - Played 5 games (R.O.I.)

Platt (1990) also shares an actual official FIFA World Cup Record with Fabio Grosso of Italy (2006). Latest goal from kick off with no goals in between - 119th minute.
The Irish lads are part of a dubious record as the Republic of Ireland became the second team in World Cup History to reach the Quarter Finals without winning a match.

USA 1994 and Ray Houghton the star of the Villa show with his belter against Italy in an Irish squad with 4 Villa players. Paul McGrath, obviously Houghton, Steve Staunton and Andy Townsend. All 4 played in all 4 games as Ireland scraped through a tough group. Recorded their first ever win in 90 mins against Italy. Also recorded their first ever losses against Mexico in the groups and in going out to Holland in the last 16.

1994 - Ray Houghton - Played 4 games. Scored 1 goal. (R.O.I.)
1994 - Paul McGrath - Played 4 games (R.O.I.)
1994 - Steve Staunton - Played 4 games (R.O.I.)
1994 - Andy Townsend - Played 4 games (R.O.I.)

France '98 had 2 Villa players appear. Savo Milosevic for Yugoslavia and Gareth Southgate in the England squad. Savo started the wins against Iran and the USA and didn't feature against Germany or when they went out to an Edgar Davids 92nd minute winner in the round of 16. Southgate started the opening match against Tunisia. Didn't see the field for the other 2 group games, although tactical genius Hoddle did send him on for Graham LeSaux against Argentina in 'the Beckham game' in the 71st minute. Maybe he was down to take the 6th penalty? lol. Ince and then latterly Batty miss in the shoot out and we're off home.

1998 - Gareth Southgate - Played 2 games (England)
1998 - Savo Milosevic - Played 2 games (Yugoslavia)

2002 like '94 saw 4 Villa players appear although unlike 1994 it was for 4 different countries. We saw Alpay Ozalan make the 'All Star' team as Turkey finished in 3rd place despite a red card in their opening match against Brazil when he conceded an 86th minute penalty tucked away by Rivaldo in a tight 2-1 win for the Brazilians who would later knock the Turks out in the Semi final courtesy of a solitary Ronaldo strike. Alpay played every minute in the knock out stages and excelled as Turkey saw off surprise package Senegal, co-hosts Japan and finally other co-hosts South Korea in the 3rd and 4th place play off. Villa youth team graduate Darius Vassell appeared for England, starting the Sweden game and coming on as a sub in the Nigeria game and replacing a tired Michael Owen for the last 11 minutes in the Quarter Final as England also went out to Brazil. Steve Staunton was still in the Irish team and stepped in to captain them through the tournament after Roy Keane was sent home following the 'Saipan Incident'. Ireland reached the last 16 going out on penalties to Spain but had those 2 Robbie Keane late goals and another unbeaten record to cheer about. Staunton appeared in every match. And last but definitely not least, Olaf Mellberg was flying the Villa flag for Sweden. 4 games in total as Sweden followed us out of the groups at the expense of Argentina before falling in extra time to Senegal in the last 16. By appearing in the Sweden v England games it seems it was the first time two Villa players had appeared in the same match at the world Cup for opposing teams (Vassell/Mellberg).

2002 - Alpay Ozalan - Played 5 games (Turkey)
2002 - Steve Staunton - Played 4 games (R.O.I)
2002 - Olaf Mellberg - Played 4 games (Sweden)
2002 - Darius Vassell - Played 3 games (England)

2006 in Germany and Mellberg would be back for the Swede's and as captain this time alongside Milan Baros for the Czech Republic and Ulises De La Cruz representing Ecuador. The Czech's went out in the group stage and Baros got an hour against Italy in their final match. Sweden, drawn against England and Sven again, get out of the group again only to lose to Germany in the round of 16 where Ecuador also went out courtesy of a Beckham goal against England.

2006 - Olaf Mellberg - Played 4 games (Sweden)
2006 - Ulises de la Cruz - Played 4 games (Ecuador)
2006 - Milan Baros - Played 1 game (Czech Republic)

2010 in South Africa saw Villa represented in the England squad again as Emile Heskey and James Milner both got game time. Milner started against the USA but was subbed off for Shaun Wright Phillips after half an hour and returned for the win against Slovenia and started the Germany game getting subbed off on 64 minutes for Joe Cole. After Germany scored a 3rd and 4th on 67 and 70 minutes respectively, Cappello threw on Englands great hope on 71 minutes and surprisingly Emile came up short.

2010 - James Milner - Played 3 games (England)
2010 - Emile Heskey - Played 1 game (England)

2014 and Ron Vlaar was rather unforgettable. Putting his injury woes aside for a few weeks he put in some top notch performances and was their defensive rock as they finished 3rd. Unfortunately for him he missed Holland's first penalty in the semi final shoot out against Argentina.

2014 - Ron Vlaar - Played 7 games (Holland)

2018 all about Jedinak (3games - 2goals - Australia) and Bjarnason (3games - Iceland) who have, by my reckoning, become the 20th and 21st Villa representatives at a World Cup already. Elmo didn't make an appearance for Egypt. Jedinak becomes only the 4th Villa player in history to score at a World Cup then!

2018 - Mile Jedinak - Played 3 games. Scored 2 goals (Australia)
2018 - Birkir Bjarnason - Played 3 games (Iceland)

Edited June 30, 2018 by VILLAMARV
updated

[terrytini]

Blimey that’s relief .

I read the Heading  title as “ Aston Villa Are History Thread”.......

[Unused Sub]

Nicely done Villamarv.

I'd add that both Warnock (2010) & Withe (1982) were in the England Squad but never played. Vic Crowe was in the Wales squad in 1958 but didn't play.

[VILLAMARV]

Guzan (USA) 2010 was one of those aswell

Edit: and 2014

Edited June 19, 2018 by VILLAMARV

[VILLAMARV]

I think there's also one other pretty surprising name to add to that list, although the fact that he didn't play was probably quite apt

Spoiler

Bosko Balaban - 2002 - Croatia

 

[VILLAMARV]

That's 89 appearances in total with McGrath fittingly at the top of the pile with 9 games.

9 - McGrath (1990 + 1994)
8 - Mellberg (2002 + 2006), Staunton (1994 + 2002)
7 - Vlaar (2014)
6 - Platt (1990)
5 - McParland (1958), Hodge (1986), Cascarino (1990), Alpay (2002)
4 - Houghton (1994), Townsend (1994), De la Cruz (2006)
3 - Vassell (2002), Milner (2010), Jedinak (2018), Bjarnason (2018)
2 - Southgate (1998), Milosevic (1998)
1 - Evans (1982), Baros (2006), Heskey (2010)

And the nearly men - Players in the finals squads but never got on the pitch:

1958 - Vic Crowe - Wales
1982 - Peter Withe - England
2002 - Bosko Balaban - Croatia
2010 - Stephen Warnock - England, Brad Guzan - USA
2014 - Brad Guzan - USA
2018 - Ahmed Elmohamady - Egypt

No Villa goalkeeper has ever appeared at a World Cup, Guzan there the only one that's ever made a squad.
 

Edited June 30, 2018 by VILLAMARV
updated

[flashingqwerty]

i'm clearly wrong but i'd have put money on bosnich having appeared at the world cup...

[Hornso]

On 13/01/2017 at 01:55, BOF said:

I was being overly pessimistic (carried too many ones)

I disagree. I think you're a visionary.

[Hornso]

1 hour ago, flashingqwerty said:

i'm clearly wrong but i'd have put money on bosnich having appeared at the world cup...

He would have if Australia didn't blow a 2-0 lead at home to draw 2-2 with Iran to go out in a playoff qualifier on away goals in 1997. Not that I am bitter or anything...

[Hornso]

Very good. Love your work @VILLAMARV

[mikeyp102]

8 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

That's 85 appearances in total with McGrath fittingly at the top of the pile with 9 games.

9 - McGrath (1990 + 1994)
8 - Mellberg (2002 + 2006), Staunton (1994 + 2002)
7 - Vlaar (2014)
6 - Platt (1990)
5 - McParland (1958), Hodge (1986), Cascarino (1990), Alpay (2002)
4 - Houghton (1994), Townsend (1994), De la Cruz (2006)
3 - Vassell (2002), Milner (2010)
2 - Southgate (1998), Milosevic (1998)
1 - Evans (1982), Baros (2006), Heskey (2010), Jedinak (2018), Bjarnason (2018)

And the nearly men - Players in the finals squads but never got on the pitch:

1958 - Vic Crowe - Wales
1982 - Peter Withe - England
2002 - Bosko Balaban - Croatia
2010 - Stephen Warnock - England, Brad Guzan - USA
2014 - Brad Guzan - USA
2018 - Ahmed Elmohamady - Egypt

No Villa goalkeeper has ever appeared at a World Cup, Guzan there the only one that's ever made a squad.
 

Interesting.

What about Marcus Allbäck? Did he sign before the World Cup started?

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by mikeyp102

[Hornso]

56 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

Interesting.

What about Marcus Allbäck? Did he sign before the World Cup started?

 

Allback signed in 2002 after Sweden had been eliminated from the World Cup and was transferred to Hansa Rostock in 2004 looking at Wikipedia and Transfermarkt.

[ferguson1]

A synopsis of the two pages so far then is:

”Proud history, bright future”.  

[Unused Sub]

Just a thought - Ulises de la Cruz

We signed him after the 2002 WC, but was he still on the books for the 2006 WC?

He moved to Reading on a free in the summer of 2006.

[VILLAMARV]

9 hours ago, Hornso said:

I disagree. I think you're a visionary.

Indeed! Good old Nostradamus!

Runs without any domestic league, FA Cup or League Cup trophy:

1996/97 - Present  - 22 seasons
1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons
1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons
1981/82 - 1993/94 - 13 seasons
1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII)
1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 seasons
...etc
 

[BOF]

2 hours ago, ferguson1 said:

A synopsis of the two pages so far then is:

”Proud history, bright future”.  

I'd say it's "Proud History, hopefully a future"

[VILLAMARV]

2 hours ago, Unused Sub said:

Just a thought - Ulises de la Cruz

We signed him after the 2002 WC, but was he still on the books for the 2006 WC?

He moved to Reading on a free in the summer of 2006.

In August of 2006 I believe.