Popular Post VILLAMARV Posted January 12, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Can't find one doing a search which considering all the whimsical musings over the years is probably operator error so mods, feel free to merge it or whatever as usual, but in answering a question on another thread "Is this the longest run in the clubs history without winning a League, FA Cup or League Cup?" it caused me, as this site can from time to time, to delve into the recesses of the interweb to find some answers. I thought instead of filing my findings away in my never to be seen again file on my desktop I may as well chuck it here as surely someone else might find it interesting over a cup of tea. That or I've wasted a couple of hours!! But there are many times over the last few years where posters have said "I just spent an hour working that out" and maybe somewhere to chuck all this stuff as a resourse tool might stop all that time and effort disappearing into the ether. Proper history buffs please feel free to correct anything you see wrong. Mathematicians feel free to check I've carried the one It is now, in 2017, 21 seasons ago that we lifted the League Cup back in 1996. There are bound to be posters on this site that weren't even born then. That puts it into context somewhat! And counting all divisional titles it is indeed the longest run without one. There's a 37 year period between the 1920 FA Cup win and the 1957 FA Cup win where we didn't win either a Division 1 title or either of the 2 cups (although there was still only the one back then) but there's a division 2 title in there and also 7 years lost to WW II. Anyway here's what I found amongst that long list of numbers we've all looked at. The honours. But with the angle being how long we've had to wait between trophies. It took us 13 years to win an FA Cup from our formation although granted some of that time we were still playing Rugby one half and Association Rules the other! And League Football just wasn't around yet. 1874/75 - 1886/87 (FA CUP) 13 YEARS One more year to go until McGregor does his thing and league football is born......and then it takes us 6 years to win it. 1887/88 - 1893/94 (DIV 1 ) 7 YEARS (1888/89 Football League formed) Own the 1890's.....including the second ever double (after Preston do it in the inaugural 1888/89 Football League season). 1894 - 1895 (FA CUP) 1 YEAR 1895 - 1896 (DIV 1 ) 1 YEAR 1896 - 1897 (D1 + FA CUP) 1 YEAR 1897/98 - 1898/99 (DIV 1 ) 2 YEARS 1899 - 1900 (DIV 1 ) 1 YEAR 3 more trophies before the war...... 1900/01 - 1904/05 (FA CUP) 5 YEARS 1905/06 - 1909/10 (DIV 1 ) 5 YEARS 1910/11 - 1912/13 (FA CUP) 3 YEARS 2 more trophy-less seasons after the 1913 FA Cup win WW I breaks out and we lose seasons 1915/16, 16/17, 17/18, 18/19, but win the FA Cup the year it starts up again. 1913/14 - 1914/15 WW I 1919 - 1920 (FA CUP) 3 YEARS Then it is barren. 37 years until our next First Division or FA Cup win. Our first relegation in 1936 but then also our first Second Division title in 1938. Either way our longest time without a trophy at that point and our longest wait since the formation of the league since which the fans had only ever gone 6 seasons without one of the major trophies. 1920/21 - 1937/38 (Div 2 ) 18 YEARS However 1 year after promotion WW II breaks out and we lose another 7 seasons - namely 1939/40, 40/41, 41/42, 42/43, 43/44, 44/45, 45/46. It takes 11 years after it gets going again before we beat the Busby Babes and all that..... 1938 - 1939 WW II 1946/47 - 1956/57 (FA CUP) 12 YEARS Then 60 years ago we decided the FA Cup wasn't really for us before obviously getting relegated again in 1959 just to get another Second Division title under our belts before the inaugural League Cup... 1957/58 - 1959/60 (Div 2 ) 3 YEARS 1960 - 1961 ( L CUP) 1 YEAR It would be 14 years, some relegations and a promotion until we saw a major trophy like that again (well exactly that trophy), although the Third Division title would set the record for 4th longest wait for any trophy at the time at 11 years. Relegated for a 3rd time in '67 and again to the third tier in 1970. 1961/62 - 1971/72 (Div 3 ) 11 YEARS One more League cup before I'm born 1972/73 - 1974/75 ( L CUP) 3 YEARS And then people stopped counting and lived the dream I guess ending the 71 year wait (60 seasons) for the 7th title along the way. 1975/76 - 1976/77 ( L CUP) 2 YEARS 1977/78 - 1980/81 ( DIV 1 ) 4 YEARS 1981 - 1982 (EUROPEAN CUP + Charity Shield) 1 YEAR 1982 - 1983 (EUROPEAN SUPER CUP) 1 YEAR (As a side note people often say to me "I wish I was born when we won it all". Do you? Do you really? Because I was, but I don't really remember it, so I always wish I was a bit older and could have been around to actually appreciate it. I feel more mocked by the Gods than you basically!! anyway on with the boring.....) 11 years and joint 4th longest wait for a trophy (at that time) with another relegation and resurgence thrown in along the way of course Turner, McNeill, Taylor, Venglos and then League Cup wins for Big Ron and Brian Little, it's all becoming a bit clearer..... 1983/84 - 1993/94 ( L CUP) 11 YEARS 1994/95 - 1995/96 ( L CUP) 2 YEARS And then, just nothing. 1996/97 - ???? 21 years without a trophy. 36 years without a league title. 60 years without an FA Cup win. Longest runs without any trophy: 1996/97 - Present - 21 years 1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 years 1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 years 1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 years (7 lost to WWII) 1983/84 - 1993/94 - 11 years 1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 years N.B. This does not include the Intertoto Cup. See below. Edited January 16, 2017 by VILLAMARV numberwang 12 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) Well that's cheered me up. (Excellent research, though.) Edited January 12, 2017 by briny_ear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 12, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 12, 2017 Nicely done. Must've taken a good while. Although I do feel kind of dirty including division 2 and 3 titles as somehow stopping the rot so ... Table adjusted to exclude lower division titles as counting towards major trophies. 1921-57 = 30 seasons 1997-?? = 22 1962-75 = 14 1875-87 = 13 1984-94 = 11 1958-61 = 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I 1st went to VP in our relegation season to Div3. So I witnessed the rise to the top Div3 title Promotion to Div1 League Cups 75 & 77 English Champions 82 European Champions 83 Intercontinental Champs 83(?) League Cup 93 LC 95 What a lucky one I am Come on DrT, lets do it all again. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, BOF said: Nicely done. Must've taken a good while. Although I do feel kind of dirty including division 2 and 3 titles as somehow stopping the rot so ... Table adjusted to exclude lower division titles as counting towards major trophies. 1921-57 = 30 seasons 1997-?? = 22 1962-75 = 14 1875-87 = 13 1984-94 = 11 1958-61 = 4 I agree it doesn't feel right. This is just 'major' trophies, so included are the European Cup, European super Cup, 1st Division titles, FA Cups and League Cups. Longest runs without a 'major' trophy: 1920/21 - 1956/57 - 30 seasons (7 lost to WWII)1996/97 - Present - 21 seasons 1961/62 - 1974/75 - 14 seasons 1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons 1983/84 - 1993/94 - 11 seasons 1887/88 - 1893/94 - 7 seasons 1900/01 - 1904/05 - 5 seasons 1905/06 - 1909/10 - 5 seasons 1957/58 - 1960/61 - 4 seasons 1977/78 - 1980/81 - 4 seasons 1910/11 - 1912/13 - 3 seasons 1913/14 - 1919/20 - 3 seasons (4 lost to WWI) 1897/98 - 1898/99 - 2 seasons 1975/76 - 1976/77 - 2 seasons 1994/95 - 1995-96 - 2 seasons 1 season: 1894 - 1895 1895 - 1896 1896 - 1897 1899 - 1900 1981 - 1982 1982 - 1983 Edited January 13, 2017 by VILLAMARV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 12, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 12, 2017 I was being overly pessimistic (carried too many ones) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 ah the bold was more of a 'we are here' marker, The correction is at the bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 Mind you, dare I ask if the European Super Cup counts as a major trophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 13, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2017 I would consider it significant enough to count as more than the lesser league titles certainly. But then I'd do the same with the Intertoto Cup compared to winning the division 2/3 titles, meaning your first table should include a trophy from 2001, which would start our current drought 5 years later than it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 23 minutes ago, BOF said: I would consider it significant enough to count as more than the lesser league titles certainly. But then I'd do the same with the Intertoto Cup compared to winning the division 2/3 titles, meaning your first table should include a trophy from 2001, which would start our current drought 5 years later than it does. you'll be talking about chucking in the peace cup next . I'm of the opinion that the Super Cup is highly prestigious myself. I suppose we can only beat whoever is there to play and win what we are in, but the intertoto is a 'trophy' for effectively prequalifying for todays europa league. The 2/3 Div titles hold much more significance imo. However, the original question just asked about the cups and 'a' league hence the original layout. It wasn't my preference, more the catalyst. Still, the thinking behind it was from a perspective of having something to cheer I suppose. Anyway, solutions. amended list below includes: European Cup, European Super Cup, Intertoto Cup, 1/2/3 Division titles, FA Cups and League Cups. Runs without any trophy: 1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons2001/02 - Present - 15 seasons 1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons 1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII) 1983/84 - 1993/94 - 11 seasons 1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 seasons 1887/88 - 1893/94 - 7 seasons 1996/97 - 2001/02 - 6 seasons 1900/01 - 1904/05 - 5 seasons 1905/06 - 1909/10 - 5 seasons 1977/78 - 1980/81 - 4 seasons 1910/11 - 1912/13 - 3 seasons 1913/14 - 1919/20 - 3 seasons (4 lost to WWI) 1957/58 - 1959/60 - 3 seasons 1972/73 - 1974/75 - 3 seasons 1897/98 - 1898/99 - 2 seasons 1975/76 - 1976/77 - 2 seasons 1994/95 - 1995-96 - 2 seasons 1 season: 1894 - 1895 1895 - 1896 1896 - 1897 1899 - 1900 1960 - 1961 1981 - 1982 1982 - 1983 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammoth10 Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 22 hours ago, Grasshopper said: I 1st went to VP in our relegation season to Div3. So I witnessed the rise to the top Div3 title Promotion to Div1 League Cups 75 & 77 English Champions 81 European Champions 82 Intercontinental Champs 83(?) League Cup 94 LC 96 What a lucky one I am Come on DrT, lets do it all again. Erm a few typos in here or have I missed something! Nothing major like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 As a persistent clutcher at straws I'll take the 2nd & 3rd Division championships (and the Intertoto) as major titles. At the time they seemed pretty massive to a hard done by Villa fan. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 On 12 January 2017 at 14:30, Grasshopper said: I 1st went to VP in our relegation season to Div3. So I witnessed the rise to the top Div3 title Promotion to Div1 League Cups 75 & 77 English Champions 82 European Champions 83 Intercontinental Champs 83(?) League Cup 93 LC 95 What a lucky one I am Come on DrT, lets do it all again. Intercontinental champs 83- didn't we lose to Penerol from Uruguay ? Please don't think I am picking you up on this- just checking- I feel sure I listened to this on BRMB ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dave J said: Intercontinental champs 83- didn't we lose to Penerol from Uruguay ? Please don't think I am picking you up on this- just checking- I feel sure I listened to this on BRMB ?? shit I meant super cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 47 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: shit I meant super cup Yeah I think that was Barca? - happy to be corrected mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dave J said: Intercontinental champs 83- didn't we lose to Penerol from Uruguay ? Please don't think I am picking you up on this- just checking- I feel sure I listened to this on BRMB ?? Yeah I think that was Barca? - happy to be corrected mind yup. we lost 2 - 0 to Penarol. 12/12/1982. In Japan. As for the Super Cup back then it was over 2 legs and held in January of 1983 meaning we won the 1982 trophy in 1983! And yes, we beat Barcelona. (Plenty of clips on you tube of the whole 2nd leg if anyone has a couple of hours to kill). If I could pick any match in our history to travel back in time to at Villa Park, it would be this one. I can only imagine the atmosphere that night. Edited January 14, 2017 by VILLAMARV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoof hearted Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 12 January 2017 at 22:07, VILLAMARV said: Mind you, dare I ask if the European Super Cup counts as a major trophy? I was at the home leg of this game with my Dad as a fresh faced 12 year old, Barca were f**king animals, it should count as 2 trophies! Cracking thread btw @VILLAMARV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 I also notice my mistake in the OP. In that the question didn't actually mention Europe, or the Charity Shield. So here's the version that actually answers the question Runs without any domestic league, FA Cup or League Cup trophy: 1996/97 - Present - 21 seasons 1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons 1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons 1981/82 - 1993/94 - 13 seasons 1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII) 1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 seasons 1887/88 - 1893/94 - 7 seasons 1900/01 - 1904/05 - 5 seasons 1905/06 - 1909/10 - 5 seasons 1977/78 - 1980/81 - 4 seasons 1910/11 - 1912/13 - 3 seasons 1913/14 - 1919/20 - 3 seasons (4 lost to WWI) 1957/58 - 1959/60 - 3 seasons 1972/73 - 1974/75 - 3 seasons 1897/98 - 1898/99 - 2 seasons 1975/76 - 1976/77 - 2 seasons 1994/95 - 1995-96 - 2 seasons 1 season: 1894 - 1895 1895 - 1896 1896 - 1897 1899 - 1900 1960 - 1961 The one for First Division, FA Cup and League Cup only: Runs without a 'major' domestic trophy 1920/21 - 1956/57 - 30 seasons (7 lost to WWII)1996/97 - Present - 21 seasons 1961/62 - 1974/75 - 14 seasons 1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons 1981/82 - 1993/94 - 13 seasons 1887/88 - 1893/94 - 7 seasons 1900/01 - 1904/05 - 5 seasons 1905/06 - 1909/10 - 5 seasons 1957/58 - 1960/61 - 4 seasons 1977/78 - 1980/81 - 4 seasons 1910/11 - 1912/13 - 3 seasons 1913/14 - 1919/20 - 3 seasons (4 lost to WWI) 1897/98 - 1898/99 - 2 seasons 1975/76 - 1976/77 - 2 seasons 1994/95 - 1995-96 - 2 seasons 1 season: 1894 - 1895 1895 - 1896 1896 - 1897 1899 - 1900 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) And here's the one which incorporates the 1981 Charity Shield. Which both Villa and Spurs won. At the same time. And officially held for 6 months each. The 80's eh? Runs without any domestic trophy 1996/97 - Present - 21 seasons 1920/21 - 1937/38 - 18 seasons 1874/75 - 1886/87 - 13 seasons 1938/39 - 1956/57 - 12 seasons (7 lost to WWII) 1982/83 - 1993/94 - 12 seasons 1961/62 - 1971/72 - 11 seasons 1887/88 - 1893/94 - 7 seasons 1900/01 - 1904/05 - 5 seasons 1905/06 - 1909/10 - 5 seasons 1977/78 - 1980/81 - 4 seasons 1910/11 - 1912/13 - 3 seasons 1913/14 - 1919/20 - 3 seasons (4 lost to WWI) 1957/58 - 1959/60 - 3 seasons 1972/73 - 1974/75 - 3 seasons 1897/98 - 1898/99 - 2 seasons 1975/76 - 1976/77 - 2 seasons 1994/95 - 1995-96 - 2 seasons 1 season: 1894 - 1895 1895 - 1896 1896 - 1897 1899 - 1900 1960 - 1961 1981 - 1982 Edited January 14, 2017 by VILLAMARV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted January 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 14, 2017 10 hours ago, VILLAMARV said: And here's the one which incorporates the 1981 Charity Shield. Which both Villa and Spurs won. At the same time. And officially held for 6 months each. The 80's eh? Wow! I never knew that - I'm sure I should have known that. What an interesting bit of trivia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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