DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 If this is an accurate account, and there is no reason to suggest it isn't, then it's a saddening piece of news. My heart sank a little when I read it, especially as GT cannot answer, explain or apologise (if appropriate). It is an awful thing to have done if GT and the club have covered this up, but I have no doubt that GT, as an honourable man, would have felt great shame about this. I will continue to choose to remember the positives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 14 hours ago, jackbauer24 said: This is such an emotive subject but spans a whole range of current news stories at the moment; judging people in the past on modern acceptability. Most (all) should agree that all these such things are unacceptable but it has taken time for that to be society's view, it ranges from smacking (punishing kids with a cane) to slapping women's bums at work to even drink driving. There was no such thing as safeguarding in GTs time, it might not have been acceptable but not as serious as it is now, also depends to what degree GT/ Villa knew exactly what was happening - was he being 'handsy' or raping children. Even then if you raped children you were imprisoned, but other things might more have been a case of tell the guy to stop it but ask the victim not to complain now it's stopped. Acceptable for now - no, but that's a different time. I don't, and the enquiry probably doesn't know enough about the exacts of this case yet but accusing a deceased person is hardly fair anyway - right to respond and all that. But it just highlights a growing issue we have to which this case may or may not fall under - how fair is it to judge people on current views on their past actions that were acceptable at time. If you are over a certain age you will inevitably have done things in your youth that were fine then, or perhaps borderline, that are now completely socially unacceptable. Teachers hit kids with canes, parents hit children with slippers, people drove drunk, you may have smoked indoors in a public place! Does it get to the point in 10-20 years where you are vilified because you did what everyone else did just because modern thinking says it was disgusting. People are almost being punished for not seeing in to the future to say what is fine anymore. This case not fall quite under that argument, I don't know, but I think it's an area which really needs some very careful consideration. Laws change for the better in most cases but is it right to punish people for not following laws or procedures that didn't exist at the time? What a load of shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 13 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: Sexual abuse hardly got reported years ago, and if it did it was mainly ignored. Even to this day there are cover ups going on, but it's a lot more in the publics eye now. As the post above stated, it was alright to belt your kids, drink drive, put your hand up women's skirts without asking(I still do) and many other things in the past. Back then having kids out of wedlock, abortions and not wanting to get married was frowned upon more. What the **** hell are you on about, Ruge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 5 hours ago, snowychap said: What the **** hell are you on about, Ruge? It was a different era back then. What part of the post is troubling you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 2 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: It was a different era back then. What part of the post is troubling you? Pretty much all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 10 hours ago, snowychap said: What a load of shit. not arguing,but elaborate, I'm interested in your thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, 1974Centenary said: The law and Society didnt have DNA to rely upon in the past,should criminals get a free pass today because they committed their crimes pre scientific advancement? I didn't say that. I said that they should be judged based on the law and social standards of the time. I didn't say someone who committed a crime (as defined at the time) should not be retrospectively punished, but they should be punished using the punishment standards at the time of the offence (by all means use modern standards of detection and proof). Anything else would set an extremely dangerous precedent. Edited September 15, 2017 by TheStagMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 12 hours ago, snowychap said: What a load of shit. Why is it? I posted something to a similar effect a page or two back, this retrospective punishment is not a black and white thing. If hard evidence came out that there was actual sexual abuse which was covered up then yes, there should be formal proceedings but bear in mind that the definition of sexual abuse has changed significantly over the past 20 years. Hell, I could step into a lift at work, accidentally brush my hand against the chest of a female coworker and two days later be suspended on the grounds of suspected sexual harrassment. I'm not trying to trivialise the wider issue(s) but I do think, in some cases, allowances must be made for the fact that it happened decades ago and during times when culture and society were very different to now. One final example, it's widely accepted today that racist language is abhorrent and will often be criminally punished, I wonder how many of our parents, grandparents and even ourselves would be deemed as racists if all of our previous conversations were somehow scrutinised? I can assure you the courts would not be able to keep up with the volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 6 hours ago, snowychap said: Pretty much all of it. Don't see where you're coming from tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: One final example, it's widely accepted today that racist language is abhorrent and will often be criminally punished, I wonder how many of our parents, grandparents and even ourselves would be deemed as racists if all of our previous conversations were somehow scrutinised? I can assure you the courts would not be able to keep up with the volume. If they were being racist then they were racist. I find it hard to excuse people based on 'It being a while ago'. My thinking prevents any rose-tinted view of the past—there were a lot of people being pricks back then and I'm happy to move on from them. I'm not really replying to your post—that just caught my eye and it's something I have thought about before. Maybe this is relevant, but in my opinion covering up the actions of a paedophile are terrible no matter what era it was in. The human race has had, and still has, too many blind spots for allowing backwards behaviour, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 42 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: If they were being racist then they were racist. I find it hard to excuse people based on 'It being a while ago'. My thinking prevents any rose-tinted view of the past—there were a lot of people being pricks back then and I'm happy to move on from them. I'm not really replying to your post—that just caught my eye and it's something I have thought about before. Maybe this is relevant, but in my opinion covering up the actions of a paedophile are terrible no matter what era it was in. The human race has had, and still has, too many blind spots for allowing backwards behaviour, I think. Some of the comedies back then used racist words and it was acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 34 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Some of the comedies back then used racist words and it was acceptable. Some of the comedies back then were essentially based on racism! (Til Death do us Part etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 hour ago, praisedmambo said: If they were being racist then they were racist. I find it hard to excuse people based on 'It being a while ago'. My thinking prevents any rose-tinted view of the past—there were a lot of people being pricks back then and I'm happy to move on from them. I'm not really replying to your post—that just caught my eye and it's something I have thought about before. Maybe this is relevant, but in my opinion covering up the actions of a paedophile are terrible no matter what era it was in. The human race has had, and still has, too many blind spots for allowing backwards behaviour, I think. But that's the point, we all need to move on from this stuff. It's the past, let's acknowledge it and leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted September 15, 2017 Author Share Posted September 15, 2017 Just now, bannedfromHandV said: Some of the comedies back then were essentially based on racism! (Til Death do us Part etc) Love thy neighbour , even the black and white minstrel show - was a very different outlook in the 70s and 80s on tv . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: Some of the comedies back then were essentially based on racism! (Til Death do us Part etc) Steptoe and son was quite racist at times. At the time it was fair game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 15, 2017 Share Posted September 15, 2017 (edited) Going off topic a bit here so apols up front but coincidentally me and the missus were watching Friends the other evening (yes, there was nothing else on!) and in the episode Ross' son was playing with a doll and he tried his best all episode to get him to play with a GI Joe instead.......harmless enough right but I can guarantee you that it wouldn't get aired (as new) now and if it did it would be subject to multiple complaints from the various communities that would find it offensive. The world's gone mad. Edited September 15, 2017 by bannedfromHandV 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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