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Tree huggers united


darrenm
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I catch the train instead of driving to work but that's also due to the fact its quicker and less stressful as opposed to being an environmental decision.

But, as Mike said, its fantastic individuals choose to do their bit but I feel its a bit like pissing in the wind when China has thousands of factories pumping shit into the air. 

 

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The tragedy of the commons. I'm surprised that you still see this argument put forward.

The people making those little decisions are voters. If more people from the age groups that vote openly talk about doing this, the more likely that it will form part of political agendas.

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29 minutes ago, limpid said:

The people making those little decisions are voters. If more people from the age groups that vote openly talk about doing this, the more likely that it will form part of political agendas.

Sadly we're not in an age where politics is the primary driver of decision making at the top level - the markets drive decisions, politics administers.

The problem with climate change is that in order to effectively manage a change to it, we need to bring an end to free market politics, free market capitalism and environmentalism are intrinsically opposed - and seeing as we've not a snowball in hells chance of doing that, I suspect we're in a whole lot of trouble.

Oh and I gave up beef.

 

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1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

Sadly we're not in an age where politics is the primary driver of decision making at the top level - the markets drive decisions, politics administers.

The problem with climate change is that in order to effectively manage a change to it, we need to bring an end to free market politics, free market capitalism and environmentalism are intrinsically opposed - and seeing as we've not a snowball in hells chance of doing that, I suspect we're in a whole lot of trouble.

What do you think could drive these changes? How do you think that the Paris Agreement got signed?

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1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said:

The people who posed for the photos at the signing - not the people who don't give a toss in the energy firms.

The energy firms offer renewable options for supply. They levy a surcharge which is nominally to pay for the new infrastructure. Because of consumer pressure (and because they know that at some point they won't have fossil fuels as an option).

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I do nothing.

I recycle but only because the government largely forces me to, if they didn't I wouldn't.

Maybe I should care, but I'm firmly in the camp of my sole actions not making a difference. To save this environment we as a people, as a government need to shift from fossil fuel everything to make a difference - me putting a bottle of coke in the right bin isn't reversing decades of damage.

So sure I don't like that the environment is screwed up, but I also don't have the time or patience to make change happen.

I mean I could follow every procedure possible. I could recycle. I could make sure the lights in rooms not being used are off. I could make sure every device not being used is switched off at the plug. I could install solar panels and utilise solar energy. Yet the second myself or someone else gets in the car and drives somewhere it undoes all of that energy saving environment bollocks. 

I have better things to do with my time so sorry Earth, I guess.

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18 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Oh and I gave up beef.

So your solution to global warming is to give up eating The number one cause of global warming :)

tell you what you can have my lentils and I'll have your beef 

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11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

So your solution to global warming is to give up eating The number one cause of global warming :)

Are you one of these people that thinks if humans didn't nobly slaughter and eat cows they'd breed so extensively that they'd take over the world?

They're a huge source of emissions because we breed tens of millions of them for meat and dairy each year, not despite it.

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3 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Are you one of these people that thinks if humans didn't nobly slaughter and eat cows they'd breed so extensively that they'd take over the world?

They're a huge source of emissions because we breed tens of millions of them for meat and dairy each year, not despite it.

Are you one of those people that need a neon sign and a klaxon for every attempt of humour ?

 

but as the meat council through their spokesman Troy McClure likes to say Eat a cow , they'd eat you if they could 

 

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Surprised to see a lot of the 'diet coke' arguments. I.e. I'm already having an unhealthy McDonald's so there's no point having a diet coke.

That argument doesn't really make sense to me. It's all cumulative. Just because you're already doing something bad doesn't mean you abandon all the good. Have the diet coke whatever, even if you do have the large fries too.

Of course it would be better not to have the coke at all and not to have a salad rather than the large fries.

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The whole environmental thing seems very biblical to me and replays the fall exactly.

Humans have been predicting the apocalypse for millennia, and it seems that no sooner have they debunked the one based upon biblical revelation, than they have constructed another out of 'science'. 

The apocalypse is always imminent but always projected to some convenient vague time in the future. 

When you are aware of the state of the planet and the consequences of Man's existence on the environment, you can't help but conclude that most of what we do is futile and probably has more to do with easing our own sense of guilt than actually solving the problem. If you believe that consumerism was invented to pacify the population by redirecting the individual's sense of self away from fanatical fascistic belief systems and towards identity through what they consume, then it seems unlikely that dismantling such a system will  bring a happy outcome.

When you live in a country consisting of 0.87% of the global population and which produces 1.6% of the global CO2, feeling virtuous for walking to the shops, seems delusional.

When you know that there is an area in the Pacific the size of Texas which is a swirling mass of plastic, it seems delusional to think that being forced to buy a carrier bag is achieving anything. 

When you know that the number of cars in the UK is increasing by 600k a year, doing without a car yourself seems like an empty gesture.

Environmentalism might simply be yet another invention of the capitalist system, where the opportunity for new markets has been created, and carbon trading another tradable commodity to be exploited.

For the rest of us, it may simply be a way for us to appease our guilt while continuing to consume with a light heart.

I definitely feel virtuous when I recycle, even though I know it is almost certainly futile.

Edited by MakemineVanilla
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Rocket engines burning fuel so fast
Up into the night sky they blast
Through the universe the engines whine
Could it be the end of man and time?

Back on earth the flame of life burns low
Everywhere is misery and woe
Pollution kills the air, the land, the sea
Man prepares to meet his destiny

Rocket engines burning fuel so fast
Up into the black sky so vast
Burning metal through the atmosphere
Earth remains in worry, hate and fear

With the hateful battles raging on
Rockets flying to the glowing sun
Through the empires of eternal void
Freedom from the final suicide

Freedom fighters sent out to the sun
Escape from brainwashed winds and pollution
Leave the earth to all it's sin and hate
Find another world where freedom waits

Past the stars in fields of ancient void
Through the shields of darkness where they find
Love upon a land a world unknown
Where the sons of freedom make their home

Leave the earth - to Satan and his slaves
Leave them to their future in their graves
Make a home where love is there to stay
Peace and happiness in every day.
 
 
There is a happy ending :)
Edited by Rugeley Villa
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4 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

The whole environmental thing seems very biblical to me and replays the fall exactly.

Humans have been predicting the apocalypse for millennia, and it seems that no sooner have they debunked the one based upon biblical revelation, than they have constructed another out of 'science'. 

What does "the fall" have to do with "the whole environmental thing"? "The fall" describes a story where an all-knowing god created three creatures, knowing exactly what each would do and then punished them and their descendants in perpetuity for doing it. You're going to have to explain what you mean by "environmental thing" as I don't see how it even vaguely relates, let alone "replays exactly". (We'll ignore the fallacy that you can't "replay" something which never happened.)

Climate change is not an "apocalypse". It's a change in climate, not destruction of the planet. It's going to force changes on us that we don't need to make if we can stop making it worse. Climate change is nothing more than a change in the climate. If it changes enough it may make life harder until we reach a new equilibrium (probably with a lot fewer human beings in it).

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I don't believe in global warming, I think it's a load of bollocks so when my missus recycles absolutely everything possible, washing out glass jars before she puts them in the recycle box, separating everything from card, paper, tins, labels off tins, I burn a few lorry tyres to offset the carbon footprint she's saved. Occasionally I'll throw a fridge in a river too 

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