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The refereeing crisis


StefanAVFC

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maybe an appeal system could be used like they have in some sports now. manager loses their appeal they lose it but if win they get another one

think it would stop players cheating if cost their team an appeal

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1 minute ago, NoelVilla said:

Suspect decision in the United game right now. Both should have red or none of them.

Thought exactly the same, shocking decision from dean.

however it's West Ham so **** em

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The key is being fit enough to get in the right position to see what's going on.  It shouldn't be that difficult to interpret whether something's a foul or not if you're close enough, though obviously this can vary due to lots of factors.  If video tech is going to be used I think the appeal idea is the best one, where managers and players have to put up or shut up when there's a controversial decision, rather than it being down to the ref to decide when to look upstairs, as this will end up in endless referrals.  At the end of the day it is an incredibly difficult job and lots of refs just aren't up to standard.

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1 minute ago, sharkyvilla said:

The key is being fit enough to get in the right position to see what's going on.  It shouldn't be that difficult to interpret whether something's a foul or not if you're close enough, though obviously this can vary due to lots of factors.  

The ref we had at QPR was in perfect position for all the big 4 penalty shouts and yet only got 1 of them right. A lot of them simply aren't good enough. The game has moved on a lot, players are just so quick and agile these days, but refereeing has basically stayed completely the same. 

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On 20/12/2016 at 10:31, Zatman said:

maybe an appeal system could be used like they have in some sports now. manager loses their appeal they lose it but if win they get another one

think it would stop players cheating if cost their team an appeal

This is an excellent idea. It's worked wonders in cricket and tennis and has become a normal part of those sports at the highest level. There's absolutely no reason why it couldn't be implemented in football for cards and penalties.

 

I also hate in football that players are allowed to surround the ref and get in his face. That shouldn't be allowed. Yellow for anyone who accosts the ref in that manner, anything a player needs to say to the ref should go through the captain.

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1 hour ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

This is an excellent idea. It's worked wonders in cricket and tennis and has become a normal part of those sports at the highest level. There's absolutely no reason why it couldn't be implemented in football for cards and penalties.

 

I also hate in football that players are allowed to surround the ref and get in his face. That shouldn't be allowed. Yellow for anyone who accosts the ref in that manner, anything a player needs to say to the ref should go through the captain.

That should also include touching the ref.

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8 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said:

This is an excellent idea. It's worked wonders in cricket and tennis and has become a normal part of those sports at the highest level. There's absolutely no reason why it couldn't be implemented in football for cards and penalties.

 

I also hate in football that players are allowed to surround the ref and get in his face. That shouldn't be allowed. Yellow for anyone who accosts the ref in that manner, anything a player needs to say to the ref should go through the captain.

On your first point, I do agree that an appeal system would be the best way. But it's not without it's flaws. Do you stop the game immediately after an appeal? If so couldn't it be used tactically to stop play?

 

On your second point I totally agree. Two solutions for me. Mic up the refs like in other sports. And secondly just make an example of it. Book players. You'll get the same old complaints of "oh but there would be 10 red cards a game!". There wouldn't. You might get a flurry of cards for two weeks. Then everybody would stop.

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An appeal system doesn't solve the problem and introduces problems of it's own.

Football isn't like tennis or cricket. In tennis if something is called out and the player appeals, the game is already stopped. Cricket is similar. In football, there's so many things that you could appeal whilst the game is ongoing - how do you solve that? And there are so many degrees of interpretation in many types of foul play there's no definitive correct answer. And if you limit the appeals you've actually only introduced another tactical tool rather than fixed bad decision making.

The problem is unfixable without fundamentally changing the game IMO. The best you can do is hold refs to greater account and train them more. Having them on a mic would help, because it would remove doubt from their thoughts on a decision, but it would also allow them enough rope to hang themselves, so it won't be happening.

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1 minute ago, Chindie said:

An appeal system doesn't solve the problem and introduces problems of it's own.

Football isn't like tennis or cricket. In tennis if something is called out and the player appeals, the game is already stopped. Cricket is similar. In football, there's so many things that you could appeal whilst the game is ongoing - how do you solve that? And there are so many degrees of interpretation in many types of foul play there's no definitive correct answer. And if you limit the appeals you've actually only introduced another tactical tool rather than fixed bad decision making.

It doesn't solve the problem, but then again I don't think anything solves the problem.

But appeals would help, imo. it's better than doing nothing.

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Why not just make it the same as the NFL challenge system?

If a player catches the ball, runs it for a touchdown and the opposition coach thinks it hit the ground, he appeals after the play is over. If he's correct, the game goes back to the point of the incorrect decision, it is corrected and then they start again from there.

So here, if a team thinks they should've been given a penalty and the ref says no and the game plays on naturally. As soon as there is a stoppage of any kind, the manager can choose to appeal. If it's a penalty, the game goes back and awards the penalty. If it's not a penalty, you just continue from where the game naturally came to a stop. 

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3 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

Why not just make it the same as the NFL challenge system?

If a player catches the ball, runs it for a touchdown and the opposition coach thinks it hit the ground, he appeals after the play is over. If he's correct, the game goes back to the point of the incorrect decision, it is corrected and then they start again from there.

So here, if a team thinks they should've been given a penalty and the ref says no and the game plays on naturally. As soon as there is a stoppage of any kind, the manager can choose to appeal. If it's a penalty, the game goes back and awards the penalty. If it's not a penalty, you just continue from where the game naturally came to a stop. 

Football is a continuous game whereas the NFL isn't. What happens if the penalty isn't given, the opposition play on and score from a break? Would be madness on both the pitch and in the stands.

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Just now, StefanAVFC said:

Football is a continuous game whereas the NFL isn't. What happens if the penalty isn't given, the opposition play on and score from a break? Would be madness on both the pitch and in the stands.

Football has a lot of stoppages in a game still. Goal kicks, corners, free kicks, throw-ins, etc. A challenge is made after a stoppage in the NFL, so if you think you should have a penalty and your team has the ball, your manager is likely to just have you kick the ball out for a throw to stop the game and make the challenge. 

If a team scores on the break, what does it matter? Either the goal rightfully stands. Or is rightfully chalked off as there's a penalty at the other end. Either way the decision is correct. 

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Just now, kurtsimonw said:

Football has a lot of stoppages in a game still. Goal kicks, corners, free kicks, throw-ins, etc. A challenge is made after a stoppage in the NFL, so if you think you should have a penalty and your team has the ball, your manager is likely to just have you kick the ball out for a throw to stop the game and make the challenge. 

If a team scores on the break, what does it matter? Either the goal rightfully stands. Or is rightfully chalked off as there's a penalty at the other end. Either way the decision is correct. 

They don't challenge flags in the NFL so the comparison doesn't really work either. A better comparison would be to rugby's TMO system. I'd back that but not manager challenges.

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1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

They don't challenge flags in the NFL so the comparison doesn't really work either. A better comparison would be to rugby's TMO system. I'd back that but not manager challenges.

Well what can/can't be challenged and how dumb those rules are in the NFL is for another time.

Had a quick google and there's 80 throw-ins/free kicks/corners in the average game. That's without goal kicks, subs, goals, etc. So there's certainly enough stoppages for it to work easily IMO. 

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