ChrisVillan Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: The biggest irony of this right wing labeling of 'generation snowflake' is that these people get 'triggered' when you call them bigots for having bigoted views. And that my opposition to their views is very possibly violent. Like a snowflake. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 9 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: The biggest irony of this right wing labeling of 'generation snowflake' is that these people get 'triggered' when you call them bigots for having bigoted views. Exactly. The right wing (especially alt-right) idea of championing free speech and free expression of ideas completely falls apart once it's turned back on them. When Milo Yiannopoulos was banned from twitter, his followers were absolutely foaming at the mouth that his right to free speech had been taken away, and refused to grasp that Twitter had every right as a business to express themselves by denying use of their service to someone who they considered bad for business. Free speech means you can say whatever you like and not be criminally prosecuted for it. Free speech does not mean that when you're being a word removed, people aren't allowed to call you a word removed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post il_serpente Posted December 7, 2016 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted December 7, 2016 One thing that offends me about the outrage against those who are easily offended is the appropriation of the term "Political Correctness" to describe what they, often justifiably, consider over-the-top sensitivity. (Writing that sentence hurt my brain a bit). The term originated as a kind of an inside, self-mocking joke when progressives found themselves to be doing something inconsistent with their general liberal principles: "I really enjoy watching Farrah Fawcett's tits bouce around on Charlie's Angels even though it's not politically correct." The phrase was never meant to impose a standard of behavior even on themselves, much less others who didn't share their beliefs or values. Rather, it was an acknowledgement, with a wink and a smile, that it is extremely difficult to always live by the principles you claim to hold dear. But the term was rather quickly hijacked to refer in a derisory manner to any perceived attempt to proscribe or censor a "perfectly reasonable" and historically acceptable belief or action, particularly to the most absurd examples of such. Suddenly, those who advocate tolerance and sensitivity toward vulnerable minorities were depicted as bullies trying to impose their ridiculous "politically correct" standards on good people who are just trying live by the reasonable values they were raised with. I also don't get the backlash against "participation trophies." My 8 year-old daughter plays in an American Youth Soccer Organization (AYSO) league. One of the organization's principal tenets is that the kids should have fun playing soccer while developing skills and hopefully a love of the game. In doing so, it doesn't keep standings (though they do have inter-league tournaments with winners); it rebalances the league and schedule mid-season to avoid blowouts; it encourages that teams that take a sizable lead in a game have their players practice passing the ball around before shooting to avoid running up the score; and it gives a trophy to everyone (primarily as a memento of their season, not to suggest that trying hard and winning is never important in life). Is this really so objectionable? They have more fun when they win than when they lose, but they always have fun. In a country where soccer is competing with baseball, American football and basketball, I would argue that making it fun for everyone is critical to growing the sport and more important than using it to teach life lessons about winning and losing. There are plenty of more traditional leagues for the skilled players who are interested in serious competition. Even in our little land of Kumbaya where parents are supposed to limit their chatter to cheering of good play and leave coaching exclusively to the coaches , I see plenty of the stereotypical "ugly American" Little League Parent behavior on display. My daughter is not greatly skilled and will never play for her high school or college team. But she is good enough to enjoy playing the game if she's allowed to do so without being yelled at by parents and coaches when she makes a mistake and without being subjected to demoralizing lopsided wins. I actually think that's a pretty healthy activity for her. I'll save the lessons of toughness and the importance of winning for when I give her knife-fighting lessons. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted December 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 7, 2016 Girls shouldn't play football! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 hour ago, il_serpente said: My 8 year-old daughter plays in an American Youth Soccer Organization (AYSO) league. You misrepresent AYSO and make it sound rather more Kumbaya than it actually is. AYSO is about having balanced teams which just means spreading the good and bad players around so that teams are more equal and therefore creates a better competition. Every kid getting to play at least half of every game is a good idea too. As much about helping the kids, as controlling the so-called 'soccer moms'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) The modern day right and left are both a shambles to be honest. Silly season has taken over both 'movements'. The left are too wrapped up in cultural critiques of society and identity politics to ever be taken seriously. I can certainly identity with the more classical Marxist left who at least tried to put forward a serious critique of capitalism on economic grounds and to hypothesise the conditions for which a revolution of sorts could happen, but I can't identify with what amounts to the contemporary left 'movement'. I personally blame the implosion of irrelevant shite in academia. Disciplines which study society have (wrongly) taken seriously the imprecise and nonsensical rambling of predominantly French 'continental' philosopher such as Deleuze, Baudrillard and Derrida, these disciplines have also fragmented into bullshit like 'Gender Studies', which not only fails to provide students with the capacity for logical thinking, but also only equips them for a 'career' at Micky D's, or alternatively, on the activists 'frontline'. Edited December 7, 2016 by Dr_Pangloss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 7, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 7, 2016 22 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: The biggest irony of this right wing labeling of 'generation snowflake' is that these people get 'triggered' when you call them bigots for having bigoted views. I think you may have gotten the wrong end of my particular stick (ooo err missus). Generation Snowflake in my mind is not exclusively to do with views that can be seen as bigoted or right wing. I am left wing and my understanding of snowflake is more to do with people just generally going around looking to be offended by things that are completely banal. See Lena Dunham as a good example. Protesting the use of sushi or vietnamese cuisine on an American canteen menu as being somehow 'cultural appropriation' rather than it just being a **** meal option Quote “There are now big conversations at Oberlin, where I went to college, about cultural appropriation and whether the dining hall sushi and banh mi disrespect certain cuisines. The press reported it as, ‘How crazy are Oberlin kids?’ But to me, it was actually, ‘Right on,’” Dunham said. Bigots wanting free speech to hate on people has always been there and is not Generation Snowflake in my mind. This new wave is different. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, BOF said: I think you may have gotten the wrong end of my particular stick (ooo err missus). Generation Snowflake in my mind is not exclusively to do with views that can be seen as bigoted or right wing. I am left wing and my understanding of snowflake is more to do with people just generally going around looking to be offended by things that are completely banal. See Lena Dunham as a good example. Protesting the use of sushi or vietnamese cuisine on an American canteen menu as being somehow 'cultural appropriation' rather than it just being a **** meal option Bigots wanting free speech to hate on people has always been there and is not Generation Snowflake in my mind. This new wave is different. If you watch any right wing commentator Bri, the 'millennial' generation IS generation snowflake. That isn't my labelling and that's where I take exception. "An entire generation that takes offense to anything and everything". And it's being used as some sort of anti-PC onslaught. It's nonsense. As you said, there's people on both sides of the spectrum who act like this. Look at how Kaepernick was treated for kneeling during the anthem and your example about Dunham is good too. And it's my point. People being overly offended isn't a right/left wing thing, but often it's aimed solely as a leftist and generational trait. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 7, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: If you watch any right wing commentator Bri, the 'millennial' generation IS generation snowflake. That isn't my labelling and that's where I take exception. "An entire generation that takes offense to anything and everything". And it's being used as some sort of anti-PC onslaught. It's nonsense. As you said, there's people on both sides of the spectrum who act like this. Look at how Kaepernick was treated for kneeling during the anthem and your example about Dunham is good too. And it's my point. People being overly offended isn't a right/left wing thing, but often it's aimed solely as a leftist trait. OK well then maybe I need a new term because I'm on about the Dunhams of the world. Whatever we decide to call them, they're out there and they're becoming more numerous. Precious little **** who just make up offences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Your term has been hijacked! I agree, there are. These people is why I find it so hard to fully engage with the left on social issues. They do some fantastic work around, for example, gay marriage and equality then dilute it by pursuing stupid arguments. These people dilute the argument when you turn around and call someone bigoted for having a bigoted view, they say 'oh you're so easily offended'. Then on the other side, you have those who are offended by the slightest thing when it comes to the country, soldiers etc. Edited December 7, 2016 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 I can't even piss on the Cenotaph anymore without some bleeding heart, queer lover telling me they're offended. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 It's interesting reading this thread in the light of news events of the day: 'Joshua Bonehill-Paine, who turned 24 on Wednesday, wrote five hate-filled blogs about Luciana Berger, the MP for Liverpool Wavertree, after Garron Helm was sent to prison for four weeks in October 2014. The jury at the Old Bailey deliberated for just over one hour and 15 minutes before finding Bonehill-Paine guilty of racially aggravated harassment. Garron, then 21 and from Merseyside, had admitted tweeting a picture depicting Berger, 35, with a Star of David on her forehead with the hashtag “Hitler was right”. Over the next four months, Bonehill-Paine posted articles calling her a “dominatrix” and “an evil money-grabber” with a “deep-rooted hatred of men”. In one, he claimed the number of Jewish Labour MPs was a “problem”. He illustrated his posts with offensive pictures, including a rat with Berger’s face superimposed on it. Bonehill-Paine hailed the “Filthy Jew Bitch Campaign” led by US white supremacist site Daily Stormer as “fantastically successful” after the MP was sent 2,500 tweets. Throughout, Bonehill-Paine, of Yeovil, Somerset, was on bail awaiting sentence for making claims on Twitter that several people were paedophiles. Giving evidence, Berger said the posts had made her feel sick and “under attack”. She told jurors she feared for her safety because “what happens online does not always stay online”. The MP said: “It’s fair to say I was the most concerned I have ever been about my personal safety since I was elected … In the midst of this ‘Filthy Jewish Bitch’ campaign the police were in constant contact with me. They were in my office and home and assisted my personal safety.”' https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/07/racist-troll-guilty-harassing-labour-mp-luciana-berger-joshua-bonehill-paine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_serpente Posted December 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 7, 2016 13 hours ago, mjmooney said: Girls shouldn't play football! Agreed! Soccer, on the other hand.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 10 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: ....the left on social issues. They do some fantastic work around, for example, gay marriage Wasn't it the Tory party that legalised gay marriage in this country ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: Wasn't it the Tory party that legalised gay marriage in this country ? I wasn't aware I was talking about parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I wasn't aware I was talking about parties. I was asking a question ... the "fantastic work" the left did on gay marriage as you put it was passed into law by "the right" ...maybe there was some other fantastic work they were doing behind the scenes that I wasn't aware of Edited December 8, 2016 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I was pointing out that the "fantastic work" the left did on gay marriage as you put it was passed into law by "the right" ...maybe there was some other fantastic work they were doing behind the scenes that I wasn't aware of It was a general point around social issues, not an attack on the right. Generally acceptance towards homosexuality is a left leaning trait. And I wasn't just talking about the UK. I was expressing how people on the left can fight towards issues that matter, then dilute that good work by pursuing stupid OTT arguments like the Lena Dunham one BOF posted. It wasn't an attack on the Tories so you don't need to get defensive. Edited December 8, 2016 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: It was a general point around social issues, not an attack on the right. Generally acceptance towards homosexuality is a left leaning trait. And I wasn't just talking about the UK. I was expressing how people on the left can fight towards issues that matter, then dilute that good work by pursuing stupid OTT arguments like the Lena Dunham one BOF posted. It wasn't an attack on the Tories so you don't need to get defensive. I want aware that asking a question was being defensive ... your statement didn't specifically mention homosexuality or tolerance ... it did however specifically mention gay marriage and the fantastic work the left did on this .. I thought perhaps I'd imagined it was the right that passed it into law and was seeking clarification Tbh I don't get the left / right point scoring exercise that seems to prevail , both sides have done some good , both sides have also royally **** things up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) **** hell I wasn't trying to point score. By saying that the left has done good work with certain things, I wasn't saying the right hasn't. You chose to wade in and make it all about left/right. I didn't even mention the right or the Tories, because if anything, I was having a go at the left. That certain people (often on the left) dilute important social justice issues by focusing on nonsense (such as the Lena Dunham shite above) Edited December 8, 2016 by StefanAVFC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) The point score wasn't aimed at you , it was a more a general PS to my post as left and right was mentioned and is often in bolitic threads , guess it could have gone in a new post Edited December 8, 2016 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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