"Political Correctness"

[StefanAVFC]

I didn't really know where to put this, so I'm starting a thread.

What prompted this from me, is reading Eric Bristow's twitter meltdown. He posted this apology:

And even in this, you have people attacking political correctness and defending Bristow for saying 'what he thinks'. Even excusing him. That people are offended too easily.

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You are punished for being honest these days. Dont change Eric, you are right the PC society we have had forced on us is wrong.

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he did speak his mind but because of snowflakes like you his life will now be a nightmare

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the PC bit is about the fact you are no longer ALLOWED an opinion if it differs to the media one

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Right or wrong, Eric. You're entitled to your opinion.

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People get offended way too easily! Everyone, collect your balls back up and calm down!

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This pathetic PC society means stating your opinion isn't worth it! And people wonder why there are no characters in sport!

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the over sensitive are out with the pitchforks and torches again, trying to heighten their self importance

Is nothing off limits anymore? Is every opinion valid and appropriate under this guise of 'anti-PC'? At which point do we turn around and say "yep, fair enough, he went too far and deserves to be criticised.

There's a real wave of anti-PC spreading everywhere now fueling right wing poltics and populism.. People are fed up of being told what they can and can't say under the guise of "Political Correctness". What is your opinion?

I can see both sides, buit ultimately, this attack on PC culture is spearheaded by people who hold certain views that maybe would have been fine in the past, but as the world has changed, they aren't appropriate anymore. I do believe there's elements of over-labelling by some people but it doesn't excuse this 'PC' backlash that seems to be a deflection against any sort of criticism of people's reprehensible opinions. There's a good (long) piece in the Guardian especially about Trump's campaign about this here.

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Three weeks ago, around a quarter of the American population elected a demagogue with no prior experience in public service to the presidency. In the eyes of many of his supporters, this lack of preparation was not a liability, but a strength. Donald Trump had run as a candidate whose primary qualification was that he was not “a politician”. Depicting yourself as a “maverick” or an “outsider” crusading against a corrupt Washington establishment is the oldest trick in American politics – but Trump took things further. He broke countless unspoken rules regarding what public figures can or cannot do and say.

Every demagogue needs an enemy. Trump’s was the ruling elite, and his charge was that they were not only failing to solve the greatest problems facing Americans, they were trying to stop anyone from even talking about those problems. “The special interests, the arrogant media, and the political insiders, don’t want me to talk about the crime that is happening in our country,” Trump said in one late September speech. “They want me to just go along with the same failed policies that have caused so much needless suffering.”

Trump claimed that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were willing to let ordinary Americans suffer because their first priority was political correctness. “They have put political correctness above common sense, above your safety, and above all else,” Trump declared after a Muslim gunman killed 49 people at a gay nightclub in Orlando. “I refuse to be politically correct.” What liberals might have seen as language changing to reflect an increasingly diverse society – in which citizens attempt to avoid giving needless offence to one another – Trump saw a conspiracy.

Throughout an erratic campaign, Trump consistently blasted political correctness, blaming it for an extraordinary range of ills and using the phrase to deflect any and every criticism. During the first debate of the Republican primaries, Fox News host Megyn Kelly asked Trump how he would answer the charge that he was “part of the war on women”.

“You’ve called women you don’t like ‘fat pigs,’ ‘dogs,’ ‘slobs,’ and ‘disgusting animals’,” Kelly pointed out. “You once told a contestant on Celebrity Apprentice it would be a pretty picture to see her on her knees …”

“I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct,” Trump answered, to audience applause. “I’ve been challenged by so many people, I don’t frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn’t have time either.”

 

[Davkaus]

You can't even confuse child molesters and homosexuals, or insult people who don't partake in vigilante justice without the politically correct brigade biting your head off, what's the world coming to.

I think freedom of expression is absolutely sacrosanct. Anything short of inciting violence should be fair game, IMO, but I think that freedom of expression extends to having the right to call people out as the dickheads they are when they say something so uninformed.

It used to be that when people were critising political correctness, it was based on nonsense stories like renaming Christmas, which was a view I could at least understand, but there's no "PC gone mad" here.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Davkaus

[Paddywhack]

5 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

You can't even confuse child molesters and homosexuals, or insult people who don't partake in vigilante justice without the politically correct brigade biting your head off, what's the world coming to.

I think freedom of expression is absolutely sacrosanct. Anything short of inciting violence should be fair game, IMO, but I think that freedom of expression extends to having the right to call people out as the dickheads they are when they say something so uninformed.

A re-wrote a paragraph about 5 times because I'm not good with words, I ain't. But that sums it up for me.

Say what you want, but be prepared to be shot down if it's moronic.

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, Paddywhack said:

A re-wrote a paragraph about 5 times because I'm not good with words, I ain't. But that sums it up for me.

Say what you want, but be prepared to be shot down if it's moronic.

This is the problem. That should be the process here.

But instead it's

>Say what you want

>Shot down if it's moronic

>OMG PC CULTURE MEANS YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING ANYMORE

[LakotaDakota]

People are offended/outraged by everything. It's so easy to do now, just click a button.....

Thousands of people have signed a petition for the new £5 to be withdrawn because they contain a trace amount of tallow and vegans do not like this.

Schools are now introducing mixed/unisex toilets for students over the age of 8 so trans & non-binary kids have a "safe space" where they can feel respected.

Oscars nominations (or other award shows) don't include a suitable mix of black/white/other/disabled/male/female/trans and you are in for a riot.

not a fan of uncontrolled immigration? Apparently this puts you on a par with hitler and you are an evil racist

Every single BBC panel show must have at least 1 woman on it since 2014

Companies including the BBC & police are allowed to recruit people only of colour/ethnicity/sexuality as apparently "affermative action" is ok

Look at things like the Rooney rule in the states that the football league have approved the adoption of. How does this help anyone? For every single managerial/senoir coashing/assistant role you must interview at least 1 person that is not white. Even if you have one target in mind to replace your current manager you have to interview at least 1 other person based soley on them being of different ethnicity, wasting their time completely. It is good that they want to do something to get a bit more variety in the mainly white dominated roles but enforced interviews for every single role isn't the way to go

Comedians are going to be a dying breed soon, you can not say anything anymore that even 1 person may be offended by without hundreds/thousands of people on twitter calling you a racist/bigot/homophobe etc etc

Edited November 30, 2016 by LakotaDakota

[StefanAVFC]

6 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

Thousands of people have signed a petition for the new £5 to be withdrawn because they contain a trace amount of tallow and vegans do not like this.

I don't understand why people are annoyed about this. How does it affect you?

6 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

Schools are now introducing mixed/unisex toilets for students over the age of 8 so trans & non-binary kids have a "safe space" where they can feel respected.

The first half of your sentence has nothing to do with your second.

7 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

Oscars nominations (or other award shows) don't include a suitable mix of black/white/other/disabled/male/female/trans and you are in for a riot.

This is silly but it's down to Hollywood being institutionalised as very white, therefore there will be more white people nominated. People's anger is aimed at the wrong people with this one.

8 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

not a fan of uncontrolled immigration? Apparently this puts you on a par with hitler and you are an evil racist

Massive false dichotomy.

8 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

Every single BBC panel show must have at least 1 woman on it since 2014

I don't see why this is a problem. Often it's a panel of 6. 1 woman isn't too bad. Although it should be recommendation, rather than a rule IMO. And this is coming from someone who doesn't feel have a female comedian they find funny (not saying all female comedians are unnfunny though)

9 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

Companies including the BBC & police are allowed to recruit people only of colour/ethnicity/sexuality as apparently "affermative action" is ok

The best person should get the job, regardless of race, gender, sexuality.

11 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

Comedians are going to be a dying breed soon, you can not say anything anymore that even 1 person may be offended by without hundreds/thousands of people on twitter calling you a racist/bigot/homophobe etc etc

I think to think people should know when and where to say certain things. You'll take what a comedian says with more of a pinch of salt than a popular figure. It has always been like that.

Just my comments on your examples.

[Paddywhack]

You can't get offended at anything anymore without someone getting offended.

[Awol]

43 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

A re-wrote a paragraph about 5 times because I'm not good with words, I ain't. But that sums it up for me.

Say what you want, but be prepared to be shot down if it's moronic.

Exactly and that is how a free society regulates. Social media is a different animal due to its anonymity, but it doesn't reflect real conversations in real life very often.

You can always find something 'offensive' online if you go looking for it, but so what? No one dies from being offended. 

 

[StefanAVFC]

14 minutes ago, Awol said:

Exactly and that is how a free society regulates. Social media is a different animal due to its anonymity, but it doesn't reflect real conversations in real life very often.

You can always find something 'offensive' online if you go looking for it, but so what? No one dies from being offended. 

 

The issue is, is when it permeates to the real world. Which is what it has done through Trump, Le Pen etc. The article in the OP (The Guardian, I know) does a good job of explaining this. 

People don't have to defend their views, just shout "political correctness has gone mad" and people lap it up. It feeds into the post-fact world we're sleepwalking into.

[Demitri_C]

"Causes Outrage" = people moaning on twitter and facebook

A whinging society we have become 

[LakotaDakota]

  A secondary school has come under fire for banning pupils from raising their hands to answer questions in the classroom because it does not "challenge and support the learning of all".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/30/school-bans-pupils-putting-hands-answer-questions-classroom

 

 

[tonyh29]

I'll get in and out of  this thread before the obligatory Stewart Lee sketch  ....

 

The Bristow thing doesn't bother me , simply as I don't give Twitter the time of day , and until this thread was blissfully unaware of what he'd said  ( Boring fact number 896 , but the land lady at the pub about 100 yards from my office left her husband and ran off with Bristow )  

 

Political Correctness , yes when people send "Happy Holiday" cards I want to punch them in the face  but thankfully it's only politicians that do that and tbf I'd want to punch them in the face anyway  ..I get a lovely Happy Christmas card from my Local Indian restaurant and my local; Chinese even send me a new calendar each year along with my Christmas card  ...nobody gives a shit apart from the Daily Mail

 

Yes  I can no longer call my twin deck cassette player with large speakers a wog box  , but tbf , I shouldn't have been calling it that back in 1985 to start with  , heck even the Paki shop around the corner I've now learnt is run by a Bangladeshi and we've been wrong for the last 30 years  ..

 

As I tell my dad when he thinks the solution to  unruly children  running around the place is "they  need a good clip around the ear"  , we don't live in 1901 anymore  ... times have a changed

 

Yeah it's a good phrase to blame our woes on , but frankly it's a bit shit

 

 

Edited November 30, 2016 by tonyh29

[Paddywhack]

14 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

  A secondary school has come under fire for banning pupils from raising their hands to answer questions in the classroom because it does not "challenge and support the learning of all".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/30/school-bans-pupils-putting-hands-answer-questions-classroom

 

 

You can't even try new classroom techniques without someone getting offended.

[StefanAVFC]

18 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

  A secondary school has come under fire for banning pupils from raising their hands to answer questions in the classroom because it does not "challenge and support the learning of all".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/30/school-bans-pupils-putting-hands-answer-questions-classroom

 

 

I trained as a teacher.

The idea is solid. Some children will never put their hands up to answer a question and some will want to answer every single question. I banned putting hands up for some lessons, just to get every child to have a chance to have their voice heard. I even had a little pot of ice lolly sticks with their names on.

However, it simply isn't practical all of the time. I'd forget, the kids would forget. Some kids aren't going to answer whether you force them to or not and some will put their hands up anyway and they aren't doing anything wrong so it would be silly to punish them.

But, that has absolutely nothing to do with political correctness. It's a teaching method promoting inclusiveness. Not entirely practical, but still.

It's silly to label, what is a good idea in practice, as political correctness with a rolling eyes smiley. it simply isn't an example of PC culture and it dilutes the phrase, much like being offended too easily does on the other end of the spectrum.

Edited November 30, 2016 by StefanAVFC

[StefanAVFC]

And the replies. To repeat a phrase - "How I grieve for my culture and country"

I don't think the racist undercurrent in the UK is as small as people think. People hold these views but they rightfully keep them to themselves. However, with this apparent war on political correctness, abhorrent views like this will become more common and accepted.

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, Davkaus said:

I think freedom of expression is absolutely sacrosanct. Anything short of inciting violence should be fair game, IMO, but I think that freedom of expression extends to having the right to call people out as the dickheads they are when they say something so uninformed.

It seems to me that Bristow was at least arguably actually inciting violence in what he wrote. 

[blandy]

11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

It seems to me that Bristow was at least arguably actually inciting violence in what he wrote. 

What he said was ignorant and stupid. But that's it - he was just a blowhard ex-darts player with a twitter account and probably full of booze. He was being a dick.

[tonyh29]

18 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I don't think the racist undercurrent in the UK is as small as people think. People hold these views but they rightfully keep them to themselves. However, with this apparent war on political correctness, abhorrent views like this will become more common and accepted.

I don't think that's racist tbh , it's akin to saying why don't we get a music of white origin award like what them black people do with their MOBO's ... she's probably from Yorkshire and just saying what she thinks

 

 

 

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

10 minutes ago, blandy said:

What he said was ignorant and stupid. But that's it - he was just a blowhard ex-darts player with a twitter account and probably full of booze. He was being a dick.

It doesn't meet a legal definition, no, but he's pretty clearly suggesting that violence is the correct response to abuse. 

[HanoiVillan]

6 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I don't think that's racist tbh , it's akin to saying why don't we get a music of white origin award like what them black people do with their MOBO's ... she's probably from Yorkshire and just saying what she thinks

 

 

 

 

 

The idea that it's racist comes from her point that a black family can't represent 'our traditions', and are therefore harming 'my culture & country'. 

I mean, of course it's her opinion and she's saying what she thinks, but it's pretty clearly racist. She's allowed her opinions, but of course we can address them for what they are.