Jareth Posted July 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2017 3rd pre season game in, players still getting up to speed and failing to move the ball that split second fast enough and all the knives are out, again, for the manager. This is the most impatient pre season I've ever witnessed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted July 19, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jareth said: 3rd pre season game in, players still getting up to speed and failing to move the ball that split second fast enough and all the knives are out, again, for the manager. This is the most impatient pre season I've ever witnessed. I agree to an extent - pre-season isn't competitive. But is the same not true for Shrewsbury and Walsall? How can they look apparently bright and full of ideas yet we're only "getting up to speed"? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Jareth said: 3rd pre season game in, players still getting up to speed and failing to move the ball that split second fast enough and all the knives are out, again, for the manager. This is the most impatient pre season I've ever witnessed. I think it's the fact that there is no noticeable improvement, at all. Look how quickly Stam and Monk implemented a style of play with their sides last season. We just seem to be going through a ridiculous turnover of players to try get it right. Edited July 19, 2017 by Johnnyp mistake 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Woops! I was just about to come on and say I thought we looked ok. Created a fair few chances that were fluffed each time. I thought we were a whelan away from having that bit of protection that would allow lansbury and con to move forward. Tin hat on and running for cover. I'll take up tennis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) Had we played well last season I am sure Bruce would be given more time because h would have earned it. He survived the season by being mediocre and playing on the "need a pre season" card to justify failings. Well here is that pre season. No excuses, ifs or buts anymore. Perform or go. I don't see how anyone could be happy with that. Edited July 19, 2017 by Rodders 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 The Master tactician almost pulled it off with Tshibola's 14 second cameo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Johnnyp said: I think it's the fact that there is no noticeable improvement, at all. Look how quickly Stam and Monk implemented a style of play with their sides last season. We just seem to be going through a ridiculous turnover of players to try get it right. Not to over defend Bruce. But this time last year we were in an almighty mess. I don't either Stam or Monk could have come in last summer and done as well as they have done at Leeeds and Reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I don't think he knows his best formation , his tactics, or his best 11 and after 9 months in charge that should not be the case . Needs a huge improvement and fast as if we get off to a bad start I don't think he will get more than a few games . Another hugely disappointing game last night irrespective of the result . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Quite surprised at some of the reactions in this thread off the back of last night’s friendly. For me it wasn’t any different to many pre season games I have seen over the years. It lacked intensity, the team was 4 or 5 players different to what it will be when we kick off the league campaign and there were some negatives and some positives. Two things really stand out for me though having watched us during pre season and this was the case in a lot of games last season. That is we have a lack of drive from midfield and a player willing to drive forward and then be in a position to exploit the space between defence and attack. We are very one paced in midfield and no one takes on an opposing player. In the squad we have now Grealish is the only player that could fill this role. We also lack the option of having a focal point up top. Even when Kodjia plays he is not a target man and I think to have that option would be useful as we can then be more direct and look to get the ball out wide and whip crosses in something we rarely do. To get the best out of Hogan, who I think is a very natural goal scorer and makes some great runs, you have to have someone up alongside him and you have to come forward at pace and exploit the space between defence and midfield so he can make runs in behind. Defensively we look well set under Bruce. Going forward we look lacking both in the middle and up top. Whilst I don’t think major changes are needed to fix the issues it is still a big two and half weeks coming up if we are to look ready come August 5th. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, striker said: Lyden showed enough in his little cameo tonight to be that player and should be given more game time before the season starts to prove it. I'd much rather promote Lyden than sign Whelan who for me is a really poor player. Whelan has played over 300 games in the premiership - has over 80 international caps - not bad for a 'really poor player ' as for Lyden - send him out on loan for the season to get some games elsewhere. whelan will be the key player in getting hourihane and Lansbury to play their natural attacking game in my opinion . Edited July 19, 2017 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2017 36 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Quite surprised at some of the reactions in this thread off the back of last night’s friendly. For me it wasn’t any different to many pre season games I have seen over the years. It lacked intensity, the team was 4 or 5 players different to what it will be when we kick off the league campaign and there were some negatives and some positives. Two things really stand out for me though having watched us during pre season and this was the case in a lot of games last season. That is we have a lack of drive from midfield and a player willing to drive forward and then be in a position to exploit the space between defence and attack. We are very one paced in midfield and no one takes on an opposing player. In the squad we have now Grealish is the only player that could fill this role. We also lack the option of having a focal point up top. Even when Kodjia plays he is not a target man and I think to have that option would be useful as we can then be more direct and look to get the ball out wide and whip crosses in something we rarely do. To get the best out of Hogan, who I think is a very natural goal scorer and makes some great runs, you have to have someone up alongside him and you have to come forward at pace and exploit the space between defence and midfield so he can make runs in behind. Defensively we look well set under Bruce. Going forward we look lacking both in the middle and up top. Whilst I don’t think major changes are needed to fix the issues it is still a big two and half weeks coming up if we are to look ready come August 5th. I think the problem is that it wasn't any different to what we saw last season. I'nmm genuinely not bothered about pre-season results or to an extent performances but the complete lack of any indication in improvement in our midfield is alarming. You are entirely right, the issue is the midfield I also agree with you about what the problem is in midfield, what we differ on is the cause of that problem. I don't think it's that players that aren't willing to drive forward, Lansbury wants to be that player and was that player at Forest. I find it odd that he should suddenly change at Villa, I attribute that to Bruce rather than the player. TRO would argue that its necessity because of Jedinak's absence, you I assume would put it down to effort/confidence/natural games or something along those lines, personally I put it down to Bruce and the way he sets teams up and approaches games. I agree with much of the rest of your post but I have a growing concern about the season ahead and the length of Bruce's continued tender. I don't think his football will be good enough or we will be good enough at playing that way to achieve our goals. The fans, club and some of the players aren't for a variety of reasons going to wait long for it to click. He needs a good start or he will be gone, right now, all things taken into consideration I can't see him getting one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 50 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Quite surprised at some of the reactions in this thread off the back of last night’s friendly. For me it wasn’t any different to many pre season games I have seen over the years. It lacked intensity, the team was 4 or 5 players different to what it will be when we kick off the league campaign and there were some negatives and some positives. Two things really stand out for me though having watched us during pre season and this was the case in a lot of games last season. That is we have a lack of drive from midfield and a player willing to drive forward and then be in a position to exploit the space between defence and attack. We are very one paced in midfield and no one takes on an opposing player. In the squad we have now Grealish is the only player that could fill this role. We also lack the option of having a focal point up top. Even when Kodjia plays he is not a target man and I think to have that option would be useful as we can then be more direct and look to get the ball out wide and whip crosses in something we rarely do. To get the best out of Hogan, who I think is a very natural goal scorer and makes some great runs, you have to have someone up alongside him and you have to come forward at pace and exploit the space between defence and midfield so he can make runs in behind. Defensively we look well set under Bruce. Going forward we look lacking both in the middle and up top. Whilst I don’t think major changes are needed to fix the issues it is still a big two and half weeks coming up if we are to look ready come August 5th. Kodjia through the middle with Green one side and Adomah the other side I feel is still our best forward option 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 I want to add some perspective to the insanity. Here are a selection of preseason results. I can't be bothered to look up any more because pre season means absolutely nothing. Reading lose to fc Kortrijk and draw against Genclerbirligi. Fulham drew with FC Zlin and narrowly beat Piast Gliwice Premiership Everton narrowly beat Gor Mahia of somewhere by one goal Premiership Southampton draw with St Gallen 0-0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 Just now, praisedmambo said: I want to add some perspective to the insanity. Here are a selection of preseason results. I can't be bothered to look up any more because pre season means absolutely nothing. Reading lose to fc Kortrijk and draw against Genclerbirligi. Fulham drew with FC Zlin and narrowly beat Piast Gliwice Premiership Everton narrowly beat Gor Mahia of somewhere by one goal Premiership Southampton draw with St Gallen 0-0 I don't care about results but I don't see a pattern or consistent formation emerging - he still seems unsure of his formation , tactics and best team and that's more worrying than anything after 9 months . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted July 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: I want to add some perspective to the insanity. Here are a selection of preseason results. I can't be bothered to look up any more because pre season means absolutely nothing. Reading lose to fc Kortrijk and draw against Genclerbirligi. Fulham drew with FC Zlin and narrowly beat Piast Gliwice Premiership Everton narrowly beat Gor Mahia of somewhere by one goal Premiership Southampton draw with St Gallen 0-0 Liverpool 1 Wigan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, hippo said: Not to over defend Bruce. But this time last year we were in an almighty mess. I don't either Stam or Monk could have come in last summer and done as well as they have done at Leeeds and Reading. Monk lost Lewis Cook. Charlie Taylor didn't want to be there. He was working for a batshit crazy chairman. Keep hearing this "ah there's problems at villa that run deep " stuff. Absolute cop out stuff. We don't play good football. Poorly setup. Bad manager and coaching setup. It really is that simple, not some intricate behind the scenes stuff . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 As usual Mark a very balanced assesment. 56 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Quite surprised at some of the reactions in this thread off the back of last night’s friendly. For me it wasn’t any different to many pre season games I have seen over the years. It lacked intensity, the team was 4 or 5 players different to what it will be when we kick off the league campaign and there were some negatives and some positives. Unfortunately so much emphasis has been put on time/preseason.... 4 promo's.....etc that the sceptics among us wait for signs to prove us wrong but It's not happening. 56 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Two things really stand out for me though having watched us during pre season and this was the case in a lot of games last season. That is we have a lack of drive from midfield and a player willing to drive forward and then be in a position to exploit the space between defence and attack. We are very one paced in midfield and no one takes on an opposing player. In the squad we have now Grealish is the only player that could fill this role. We also lack the option of having a focal point up top. Even when Kodjia plays he is not a target man and I think to have that option would be useful as we can then be more direct and look to get the ball out wide and whip crosses in something we rarely do. To get the best out of Hogan, who I think is a very natural goal scorer and makes some great runs, you have to have someone up alongside him and you have to come forward at pace and exploit the space between defence and midfield so he can make runs in behind. Surely thats down to the manager? 56 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Defensively we look well set under Bruce. Going forward we look lacking both in the middle and up top. Whilst I don’t think major changes are needed to fix the issues it is still a big two and half weeks coming up if we are to look ready come August 5th. I beg to differ there as the best "chance" created from passing and movement came from Walsall (1st half). Within a few touches they were beyond Lansbury and in between the defenders so a better finish would have meant 1-0 Walsall. As much as we want it, analyse it, see whats wrong, discuss solutions and verbally abuse each other it just isnt going to happen is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skarroki Posted July 19, 2017 Share Posted July 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Johnnyp said: I think it's the fact that there is no noticeable improvement, at all. Look how quickly Stam and Monk implemented a style of play with their sides last season. We just seem to be going through a ridiculous turnover of players to try get it right. Monk is the perfect example. They had 2 bad runs as well as us, it looked like Monk could be sacked at the start of the season because of how badly they were performing, along with the chairman's infamous trigger happy approach. Leeds, however, clearly had a style and system that simply hadn't clicked at that point, evertually it did though and a fantastic long run and good football followed. Even the run that led to them falling out the play offs wasn't enough to get Leeds to sack him, or Middlesbrough to do what they could to bring him in. I said last season how jealous I was that Leeds had got him. I think he could have been the perfect man in hindsight instead of Di Matteo. But the overall point is that we're supposed to be working on a system and style of play. It won't miraculously appear one game, it'll have to build up over time and I don't think we've started building on it yet, therefore I can't see us having anything more than a poor start to the season. At least there won't be wool pulled over the eyes this time. We know what to expect from this league now and nearly all these players have been here 8 months. It'll be interesting to see what happens next if I was a neutral. Instead this is the first season I can wait to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 19, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Eastie said: Whelan has played over 300 games in the premiership - has over 80 international caps - not bad for a 'really poor player ' as for Lyden - send him out on loan for the season to get some games elsewhere. whelan will be the key player in getting hourihane and Lansbury to play their natural attacking game in my opinion . If you are going to use games played in the Premiership or at international level as a barometer to gage a player's ability then you are on a very slippery slope indeed especially concerning Whelan and who he has played for. Jedinak was mentioned as the missing link last season in allowing Hourihane and Lansbury to be more offensive yet look how that turned out. Lyden for me should be given more game time now. He has better control, passing ability and more energy than either Jedinak or Whelan (if signed) will ever have. Plus you have JT at centre back who will keep Lyden disciplined. No better time to blood him now with Jedinak as backup when Lyden needs resting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 19, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2017 1 hour ago, praisedmambo said: I want to add some perspective to the insanity. Here are a selection of preseason results. I can't be bothered to look up any more because pre season means absolutely nothing. Reading lose to fc Kortrijk and draw against Genclerbirligi. Fulham drew with FC Zlin and narrowly beat Piast Gliwice Premiership Everton narrowly beat Gor Mahia of somewhere by one goal Premiership Southampton draw with St Gallen 0-0 You are talking about results. Which I agree mean nothing. The criticism and discussion isn't about results though, in fact I don't think anyone has commented on the results. People are commenting on the way we are playing. Two very different things. If people were complaining we hadn't won the last two games But you could see progress in the team. I'd be in complete agreement with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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