bobzy Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 6 minutes ago, BOF said: This is not true. Wagner spent 4 seasons in the German Bundesliga ladder. They put their B teams into the same league system* over there, so his experience over there cannot be discarded. It would be like discarding all experience of managing in the English League One or Two. * although obviously you can't be promoted into the same league as your own A team. It's more like discarding all experience of managing the Chelsea reserve team - no real control over team affairs (transfer policy etc.) at all. If it can't be discarded, he got relegated in his last season and then left the club to manage Huddersfield. Long-term indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 15 minutes ago, bobzy said: Your post said "a Wagner-type dynasty-building manager" - I interpreted that to mean that Wagner is a manager who would build clubs up long-term, is that not right? Because, from his 40 odd games as a football manager, I'm not sure there's anything to suggest he does. Similarly Pochettino isn't this type. He's gone from strength to strength as a manager - but he's done this by moving clubs, not by staying somewhere and building it up. As for Bruce in the transfer market, I'm just curious as to what makes you think he "needs very careful monitoring in the transfer market to ensure that we build for the future". Does he buy old players on the whole? What makes you think he has a fairly average record? I think your last line is complete bollocks. My proof behind it is that we've hired Steve Bruce and not David Wagner. You know exactly what I mean you're just choosing to pretend otherwise. I don't remember saying he buys old players but on the whole I think his record is very average It's your option to think my opinion on who we would have prefered to sign is bollocks. Likewise I think your keen support of RDM was bollocks but we are all entitled to differing opinions. I'm pretty sure that if Wagner was available we would have appointed him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted October 13, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 13, 2016 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: It's more like discarding all experience of managing the Chelsea reserve team - no real control over team affairs (transfer policy etc.) at all. If it can't be discarded, he got relegated in his last season and then left the club to manage Huddersfield. Long-term indeed It's not really similar at all to managing a reserve side in England because you are playing in the professional system against professional A sides and other than serious injuries you will be using a stable squad that must be managed in the same way as any other. Also, he was part of Klopp's backroom staff so realistically his days were always numbered once Klopp left. People are just seeing 'B' team and assuming it's like England. It isn't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 22 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Name some. Then tell me which ones would want to take over a freefalling club at the bottom of the Championship. I really can't be bothered going down this path. I don't think he was the best choice but he's here now so lets get on with it. On the plus side I liked how he came across at the presser, so a good start in that respect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 5 hours ago, rubberman said: OT but I think this is likely to be the case. Teams playing the 'gegenpress'-style over a full season have all faded towards the end in the PL - it's likely to be even more accentuated with more games to play in the Championship. Fatigue and injury will start kicking in after Christmas for Huddersfield. True. And how effective was the gegenpress when we bitch slapped his Huddersfield side all over the park for 60 minutes and should have been 3-0 up? The personnel you're able to put out and the quality of the opposition always dictate the effectiveness of such things. We looked a confident, attack minded side at the start of the season and his lot couldn't get near us for a large part of that game. That said, Wagner is an intriguing one, worth keeping an eye on. My heart was keen on a punt like that, but my head said get it wrong and we're looking at League One football. Maybe one to look at again in future if he gets Huddersfield up and his approach has a degree of effectiveness in the top flight. Naturally we'd have more competition for his signature, but there it is. Bruce's record indicates he's adept at getting sides up. He has also kept the likes of B-lose, Wigan and Sunderland up, so he could be the man to stabilise us and give us a season back in the topflight, as per Allerdyce and co. Reassess then. The situation is fluid. If we have learned nothing else over these past few years, you don't keep the wrong man (or a guy who was right for specific situation but that situation no longer applies) in the job just to avoid looking reactionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 43 minutes ago, VillaCas said: You've mis-interpreted my post as I clearly didn't say we should have hired Wagner, I said that my preference would be to hire someone of that type - the type of manager who might build something longer lasting and grow with the club. I could just as easily said a Klopp-type or a Pocchitino-type. I clearly said within my post that there must be dozens of such candidates in world football. As to Bruce I've already said that I think he is a decent bloke and a solid, if somewhat dull manager. In my opinion, and that of many others, one of his drawbacks is that he has a fairly average record in the transfer market, if you think otherwise thats your perogative. As to Wagner specifically, I would have taken him over Bruce all day long, as I suspect Xia and Co would have, had he been available. We will never know now if that would have been the correct decision or not We will. This season or next. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said: https://www.facebook.com/avfcofficial/ Spoke well I thought, but acid test comes Saturday. Thank you very much Edited October 13, 2016 by Uncle Albert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phumfeinz Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 20 minutes ago, Gary Thomas said: https://www.facebook.com/avfcofficial/ Spoke well I thought, but acid test comes Saturday. Let's hope he doesn't trip up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 30 minutes ago, Designer1 said: What a surprise, first question SKY ask in the conference is about his SHA connection... Its low grade, isn't it.....Talk about desperate for controvesy. They ( blues fans)are more peed off than our own antagonists.....but lets just see what transpires and we will soon know if we are lucky or unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, HolteExile said: And how effective was the gegenpress when we bitch slapped his Huddersfield side all over the park for 60 minutes and should have been 3-0 up? The personnel you're able to put out and the quality of the opposition always dictate the effectiveness of such things. We looked a confident, attack minded side at the start of the season and his lot couldn't get near us for a large part of that game. In truth with the resources at our disposal, Huddersfield should not get a look in against us. In my opinion the difference was mainly down to the ability of the respective managers. I also believe that Wagner knows that his pressing style of play will wilt as the season goes on - perhaps he has a plan B ready to put into place or perhaps he has calculated that his best option of promotion is to go off like the clappers and try and hang on as the season draws to a close. If he does take Huddersfield up I think that would be a remarkable achievement, if he doesn't I think that will be in part because of the resources available. Whatever, we were not able to appoint him and I now think that ship has sailed. If he fails to win promotion he would fall off our radar and if he wins promotion he will be a hot property and maybe out of our reach. As he didn't join us, going forward I'm now concentrating on the pluses and minuses of SB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Yet again a complete coaching clear out. The players will, and should, take some of the blame but there has been so many coaches changing in recent times it is a joke. I wish Bruce well because he needs it. This club is a disaster area for managers. I think Bruce is the first proper 'manager' we have had since MON flounced out in 2010.... the rest since have been either Director of football types (Houllier),tracksuit coaches (RDM, Garde,) yes men (Lambert, Mcleish) or the bizarre (Sherwood). We badly need some stability. I hope Bruce can give this. I doubt his impact is it to be free flowing football. But if it is promotion and some stability who cares? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 2 hours ago, BOF said: We have decades of player interviews telling us that the support is very helpful to them. And there's a reason the term 'home advantage' exists and it's not just about knowing your own pitch. Players are affected both positively and negatively by support or a lackthereof. Basically sports psychology and that intangible thing called pressure. If a player plays with fear and is afraid of what he might do and the reaction to it before he has even done it, then he's less like to try; less likely to even want the ball. That's bad for everyone. Then there's the chicken and the egg dynamic. Should the fans wait for something to cheer, or should they try to inspire the team to do something worth cheering. I think it's a little from column A and a little from column B. This is where I think the collective fan needs to know when the team needs them. Needs the bit of help. And also needs to be choosey about when to criticise lest they do more harm than good. That's not to say criticism has no place. But it can't be indiscriminate otherwise it loses its impact and its meaning. TL;DR I think the fans do matter. It's a tough one. On the one hand, Pompey fans always made a fair old racket and that didn't stop them plummeting through the divisions. And Arsenal easily have the worst home support in Western Europe and probably beyond. That hasn't hindered their CL qualification prospects one jot. On the other, I have been to Villa Park when the right song or an increase in atmosphere has acted like an adrenaline shot to the team. You only have to go back as recently as the Newcastle game. First half, moribund -like a Brentford and so many other games. Second half -after the Jedinak goal was given offside- and it's a different game. Perhaps as a fanbase we need that sense of injustice to get us going. Contrived attempts from the club or fan groups don't seem to work. Direct appeals from Graham Taylor and Ron Atkinson in the programme notes and even on the electronic scoreboards did seem to generate a response many moons ago. Not sure Bruce would have the stature of standing to make those type of requests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 So apparently we've only won 4 games out of the last 54. Just wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Just now, Keyblade said: So apparently we've only won 4 games out of the last 54. Just wow. Absolutely disgusting isn't it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 20 minutes ago, HolteExile said: It's a tough one. On the one hand, Pompey fans always made a fair old racket and that didn't stop them plummeting through the divisions. Nobody is saying that ability doesn't count. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Keyblade said: So apparently we've only won 4 games out of the last 54. Just wow. and probably spent c100mill gross in the process Words fail me. any one of us could of done that. Edited October 13, 2016 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KHV Posted October 13, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted October 13, 2016 Steve Bruce is a winner, fantastic appointment for us 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 17 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Absolutely disgusting isn't it? Disgusting is the appropriate word here, for once! Horrific is another one. Farce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 Only 4 wins in 54 games must be some sort of English record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted October 13, 2016 Share Posted October 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Only 4 wins in 54 games must be some sort of English record. Yay ! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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