bobzy Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 20 minutes ago, Zatman said: the highlights are now crosses I actually thought they played alright first half - just toothless/clueless up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted January 25, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2021 2 hours ago, useless said: This idea that Bruce 'stopped the rot' is the biggest myth going, any manager would have improved us because of the massive amount of money that we had spent by championship standards, if Di Matteo had have stayed he probably would have done just as well as Bruce did in that first season, we weren't even playing badly in the lead up to him getting sacked. Similarly if we'd have appointed Pearson, or Moyes instead of Bruce, they'd have done just as well, and probably better, it's not like Bruce did anything that any half competent manager couldn't have done in that first season, I didn't want Bruce as manager, said so, and still don't like him as a manager. But I disagree with your view. He did stop the rot. When he came in he immediately sorted the defence out and made us much better in terms of solidity. It needed doing. Di Matteo didn't do it. Sacking RDM was right. I was at Preston the game before he was sacked, and it was one of those obvious ones - he had to go. What Bruce didn't do was ever improve us once he'd stopped the rot, really. Bringing in Calderwood seemed to make the coaching worse and we went backwards if anything. But Bruce absolutely, in my eyes stopped the rot. He bought some terrible buys and some good ones (McGinn, obviously). He was never (in my eyes) likely to take us up, or to be able to hack it in the Prem in the unlikely event he somehow would have done. He doesn't develop youth players, his time at the top level has gone - the game has moved way past his methods and outlook and knowledge. It had done 5 years or even longer ago. He's a decent man, as a human, who doesn't handle pressure well and would be better off out of it frankly. Or at least at a lower level of football. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 25, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 25, 2021 1 hour ago, blandy said: I didn't want Bruce as manager, said so, and still don't like him as a manager. But I disagree with your view. He did stop the rot. When he came in he immediately sorted the defence out and made us much better in terms of solidity. It needed doing. Di Matteo didn't do it. Sacking RDM was right. I was at Preston the game before he was sacked, and it was one of those obvious ones - he had to go. What Bruce didn't do was ever improve us once he'd stopped the rot, really. Bringing in Calderwood seemed to make the coaching worse and we went backwards if anything. But Bruce absolutely, in my eyes stopped the rot. He bought some terrible buys and some good ones (McGinn, obviously). He was never (in my eyes) likely to take us up, or to be able to hack it in the Prem in the unlikely event he somehow would have done. He doesn't develop youth players, his time at the top level has gone - the game has moved way past his methods and outlook and knowledge. It had done 5 years or even longer ago. He's a decent man, as a human, who doesn't handle pressure well and would be better off out of it frankly. Or at least at a lower level of football. I don't like the guy based on how he conducts himself but accept in real life he is probably a decent guy, all that know him suggest he is. Leaving that aside I agree with the rest, I don't though accept he stopped us doing a Sunderland as some claim which goes back to Bruce himself. I can't for the life of me understand why he is still putting himself through it, he needs to be honest with himself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 When Di Matteo was sacked, we had won one match. Against Rotherham. We hadn't won an away game in about 18 months or something? The systems kept changing, about 40% of the squad were callow and another 40% were phoning it in, there were no more than half a dozen players putting in reliable performances. He pretty clearly did 'stop the rot', however that's defined. That's not to say he was some great success, but we were absolutely pants when he took over. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted January 25, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 25, 2021 It’s mildly curious how many points Villa dropped in the last 10 minutes of matches during Di Matteo’s spell. I make it 9 points lost with 1 point gained, so an 8 point swing. It’s like they weren’t too far from having a decent start to the season. This is kinda contrasted with Bruce’s final 11 matches in which we picked up half a dozen points or so in the last few minutes (go and look at the post match threads, there are numerous “got out of jail” style comments). My gut feeling is that if RDM had remained in post, Villa would have finished lower mid table. Probably a few places below what Bruce managed. Anyway, that’s not to suggest RDM was unfairly dismissed. Again, my gut instinct is that RDM wouldn’t have reached the playoffs like Bruce did in the following season. Ultimately whether Bruce stopped the rot for me is by the by as I think a new rot had set in, or at the very least was beginning to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villa4europe Posted January 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 25, 2021 "I won't shy away..." From a man who banned questions 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: When Di Matteo was sacked, we had won one match. Against Rotherham. We hadn't won an away game in about 18 months or something? The systems kept changing, about 40% of the squad were callow and another 40% were phoning it in, there were no more than half a dozen players putting in reliable performances. He pretty clearly did 'stop the rot', however that's defined. That's not to say he was some great success, but we were absolutely pants when he took over. He definitely turned us into something resembling a football team where we were a complete shambles before. I was quite pleased with his first couple of months here. That said, 11 games was a tad too soon to let go of RDM before he could put his stamp on the team. It looked like we were just 1 or 2 things clicking for things to get back on track. We weren't losing too many. With how cutthroat that decision was, it was kind of surprising that Bruce was kept on despite finishing 13th that season and a bad run to end it. Seemed like it was promotion or bust in the beginning, and that seemed to soften as time went on for whatever weird reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 8 hours ago, Keyblade said: He definitely turned us into something resembling a football team where we were a complete shambles before. I was quite pleased with his first couple of months here. That said, 11 games was a tad too soon to let go of RDM before he could put his stamp on the team. It looked like we were just 1 or 2 things clicking for things to get back on track. We weren't losing too many. With how cutthroat that decision was, it was kind of surprising that Bruce was kept on despite finishing 13th that season and a bad run to end it. Seemed like it was promotion or bust in the beginning, and that seemed to soften as time went on for whatever weird reason. I make it that RDM was a Xia appointment and Bruce was a Wyness appointment, think they made a big deal that it was next season. All Bruce would say is that he didnt have a pre season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 When we were in the midst of one of our bad runs of form under Bruce someone asked Xia on twitter why Bruce was keeping his job after Di Matteo was fired for a similar bad run of form, and Xia replied that Di Matteo wasn't sacked because of the results, but because of an off the field matter. In Di Matteo's eleven games we only lost three, and just two of his last ten games, drawing games was the problem, but was quite unlucky in that regard as the team had been playing well and individual mistakes from Gollini cost us a few times. I wasn't against sacking him, but if he'd have stayed I think he would have done as well as Bruce in that first season, and if he had have done, I doubt anyone would be claiming he stopped the rot, I think that's just something people say about Bruce, as they feel they don't want to be entirely negative about him, so give him that token bit of praise. What stopped the rot was spending £80m on the squad as a championship club and playing in a weaker division, regardless of who the manager was we were always going to improve in that scenario. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, useless said: When we were in the midst of one of our bad runs of form under Bruce someone asked Xia on twitter why Bruce was keeping his job after Di Matteo was fired for a similar bad run of form, and Xia replied that Di Matteo wasn't sacked because of the results, but because of an off the field matter. In Di Matteo's eleven games we only lost three, and just two of his last ten games, drawing games was the problem, but was quite unlucky in that regard as the team had been playing well and individual mistakes from Gollini cost us a few times. I wasn't against sacking him, but if he'd have stayed I think he would have done as well as Bruce in that first season, and if he had have done, I doubt anyone would be claiming he stopped the rot, I think that's just something people say about Bruce, as they feel they don't want to be entirely negative about him, so give him that token bit of praise. What stopped the rot was spending £80m on the squad as a championship club and playing in a weaker division, regardless of who the manager was we were always going to improve in that scenario. A quick Google tells me DiMatteos record as Villa manager was P12, W1, D7, L4. Admittedly it was a difficult time, we'd just come off the back of being spanked every week in the Premier League and no doubt the confidence was rock bottom. We spent a lot when we went down it's true - although you'd struggle to claim is was wisely spent (McCormack!?). Certainly the pressure of being expected to challenge and that money being spent affected the players. I get you don't think we were bad enough to go down that year and even a managerial dunce like DiMatteo would have equaled or bettered Bruce's "achievements" that year. The truth is we spent a lot of money on crap and unlike you I'm not so sure we were too good to down that year - maybe others feel the same? That initial run of games wasn't good enough and pretty much sabotaged any idea of automatic promotion that year and could easily have turned into a total meltdown, such is the fine line of draws. The record did improve from that following Bruce's arrival so while you might be annoyed by the "stop the rot" Bruce defence, it's at least backed up by some kind of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 That season we'd brought in the likes of Kodjia, Chester, Jedinak, Elphick, Hourihane, Sam Johnstone and Adomah, amongst others, it definitely wasn't a squad that should be anywhere near a relegation battle in the championship, and would have taken a very bad manager indeed for us to be anywhere near going down with those players available, this idea that Bruce saved us from relegation just isn't true, I know some like to compare us to Sunderland, but our situations weren't really the same. Truth be told that season we finished thirteenth, eighteen points from the play offs and thirty points from the top two, so not even sure you can call that stopping the rot, wasn't until the following season that things began to improve by which time as well as signing all the above we had added the likes of Terry, Tuanzebe, Snodgrass, Grabban and others to the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I think he helped stop the rot but maybe he made too much of a deal out of it. RDM helped as well, I believe it was the characters brought in and not ability tvat did this. Chester, Jedi, Elphick brought a maturity and self respect back to the club that was missing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 16 minutes ago, Zatman said: I think he helped stop the rot but maybe he made too much of a deal out of it. RDM helped as well, I believe it was the characters brought in and not ability tvat did this. Chester, Jedi, Elphick brought a maturity and self respect back to the club that was missing i also think the pessimism within the fanbase helps, we were on our way down to league 1 when Bruce took over...were we though? not really, we had teething problems in the new division with the new players, it was always going to settle down i think Bruce lets players do the micro management in game, therefore Terry was huge, sign good experienced players and let them play in the hope that they'll see you through, and it works to an extent plus all this stop the rot stuff, he settled us down, give him credit, he then completely disrupted us with his shambolic defense, so criticise him, its a 2 way street 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted January 26, 2021 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2021 One of the key reasons Bruce got the job over other names at the time was his record of promotion and the fact that in his view we still had a shot that season. I was told this at the time and believe it to be true. Fast forward a few months and Bruce is peddling a narrative that he saved us from relegation. Yet from memory we were never in the bottom three. It was like so much that the man says self protectionism and PR designed to detract from his own shortcomings and performance. Yes signings he made made us more professional, yes some of them later contributed to us going up and yes he played a part in turning the club around. But saved us from doing a Sunderland? No. Not buying it, never have never will. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted January 26, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) (Not sure that this video is as recent as the tweet suggests but the point still stands.) Edited January 26, 2021 by choffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Villa and Newcastle fans comparing the great man. Its worrying similar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilS Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 One thing that used to make me laugh about Steve Bruce when he was manager of Wigan/sha was his after match comments on MotD. After a defeat, He would pretty much without fail always say "I am not one to make excuses, but...." and then proceed to make excuses for the defeat. He did it every week they lost which was fairly regularly. It was a little thing but it did make me laugh that he was so adamant that he didn't make excuses. I heard him start to trot that line out the other night as well but was laughing too hard to hear what his excuse was this time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Pretty sure we were in the relegation places when Bruce took over here, or maybe one position outside of them. To think that we simply couldn’t / wouldn’t have done a Sunderland is naive in my opinion. The facts quite clearly show that we were trending that way. Bruce brought in a better all round culture here helped of course with bringing in Terry, that set the foundations for where we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 7 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Pretty sure we were in the relegation places when Bruce took over here, or maybe one position outside of them. To think that we simply couldn’t / wouldn’t have done a Sunderland is naive in my opinion. The facts quite clearly show that we were trending that way. Bruce brought in a better all round culture here helped of course with bringing in Terry, that set the foundations for where we are now. 19th when RDM was sacked after 11 games. Which obviously is dreadful. And then another 35 games later when the season ended we were sitting in the lofty heights of 13th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Bruce brought in a better all round culture here helped of course with bringing in Terry, that set the foundations for where we are now. Although I disagree I can accept the point that he 'stopped the rot', however this ^ is a step or three too far. He hasn't set any foundations, not here, not anywhere he's been. He was well on his way to have another wasted season when he was sacked. Everything we have now was built from the ground up by Dean Smith. Edited January 26, 2021 by BG_Villa_Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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