Steve Bruce

[rjw63]

The Longstaffs

[VillaChris]

It's strange how he's veered away from signing decent foreign players. At SHA and Wigan he got in some decent ones although seems back then he had a scout based in South America who was giving him recommendations on up and coming players like Wilson Palacios and Maynor Figueroa who were good players in premier league.

Guess that scout retired and didn't follow him to clubs in last 5-6 years.

In last few years he's gone for the steady eddie type. What they signed in the summer was Jamal Lewis, Jeff Hendrick, Ryan Fraser and Calum Wilson. I wouldn't say that's a terrible set of players but it's all very O'Neill esque is some are mid to late 20s on high wages so little room for improvement.

I compared them to Southampton before the game when we were debating things. Would Theo Walcott look as good for Newcastle as he has for Southampton if Newcastle had picked him up on season loan as I imagine he was a target, I doubt it.

Edited January 25, 2021 by VillaChris

[Tomaszk]

He's so so lucky there's no fans in at St James'.

[Keyblade]

3 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

It's strange how he's veered away from signing decent foreign players. At SHA and Wigan he got in some decent ones although seems back then he had a scout based in South America who was giving him recommendations on up and coming players like Wilson Palacios and Maynor Figueroa who were good players in premier league.

Guess that scout retired and didn't follow him to clubs in last 5-6 years.

In last few years he's gone for the steady eddie type. What they signed in the summer was Jamal Lewis, Jeff Hendrick, Ryan Fraser and Calum Wilson. I wouldn't say that's a terrible set of players but it's all very O'Neill esque is some are mid to late 20s on high wages so little room for improvement.

I compared them to Southampton before the game when we were debating things. Would Theo Walcott look as good for Newcastle as he has for Southampton if Newcastle had picked him up on season loan as I imagine he was a target, I doubt it.

He doesn't improve players, many of them regress under him. Look at managers like Rodgers, Smith, Hassenhutl and even Sean Dyche. They squeeze every ounce out of their players.  Limited players like Walcott, Adams, Albrighton etc are all very good PL performers, whereas like you say if they played for Newcastle, they would end up being deadwood before long. 

[TheStagMan]

6 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

He's so so lucky there's no fans in at St James'.

Wonder how Sheffield Wednesday fans feel about him?

[sne]

While I'm sure he has a say in it Bruce is not the one who decides what players Newcastle signs. He is head coach, not manager. 

[Zatman]

34 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

It's strange how he's veered away from signing decent foreign players. At SHA and Wigan he got in some decent ones although seems back then he had a scout based in South America who was giving him recommendations on up and coming players like Wilson Palacios and Maynor Figueroa who were good players in premier league.

Guess that scout retired and didn't follow him to clubs in last 5-6 years.

In last few years he's gone for the steady eddie type. What they signed in the summer was Jamal Lewis, Jeff Hendrick, Ryan Fraser and Calum Wilson. I wouldn't say that's a terrible set of players but it's all very O'Neill esque is some are mid to late 20s on high wages so little room for improvement.

I compared them to Southampton before the game when we were debating things. Would Theo Walcott look as good for Newcastle as he has for Southampton if Newcastle had picked him up on season loan as I imagine he was a target, I doubt it.

pretty sure it was an agent and not a scout and that was over a decade ago

Edited January 25, 2021 by Zatman

[VillaChris]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

pretty sure it was an agent and not a scout and that was over a decade ago

Yeah I think Sullivan had some connections as I also remember they picked up Christian Benitez after Bruce had left and McLeish had no idea who he was when he turned up so wasn't a manager signing that one.

They also signed Luciano Figueroa years back who flopped at SHA but then did well at Villareal and scored a few times for Argentina.

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, VillaChris said:

Yeah I think Sullivan had some connections as I also remember they picked up Christian Benitez after Bruce had left and McLeish had no idea who he was when he turned up so wasn't a manager signing that one.

They also signed Luciano Figueroa years back who flopped at SHA but then did well at Villareal and scored a few times for Argentina.

Zarate, Pandiani as well popped up for blues 

[rjw63]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

 Pandiani

"The Rifle".

More like "The Pea Shooter"

Edited January 25, 2021 by rjw63

[desensitized43]

40 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

He doesn't improve players, many of them regress under him. Look at managers like Rodgers, Smith, Hassenhutl and even Sean Dyche. They squeeze every ounce out of their players.  Limited players like Walcott, Adams, Albrighton etc are all very good PL performers, whereas like you say if they played for Newcastle, they would end up being deadwood before long. 

Let's be honest. When you employ managers like Bruce/Allardyce/Pulis you aren't doing it to challenge at the top end of the table or play decent football. He's there to keep Newcastle in the division and do so while spending as little as possible. The easiest and cheapest way to do that is to implement a rigid system and be difficult to beat. When that "goes well" they'll nick points. They'll still have fans complaining about "style" and whatever but as Stoke proved, it's amazing what fans will put up with provided they get results. The moment that changes those managers don't have the "good football" kudos to fall back on, and ultimately it's an entertainment business. Take Smith for example last year - really bad situation we were in but at least we were entertaining which bought him time.

[Keyblade]

Just now, desensitized43 said:

Let's be honest. When you employ managers like Bruce/Allardyce/Pulis you aren't doing it to challenge at the top end of the table or play decent football. He's there to keep Newcastle in the division and do so while spending as little as possible. The easiest and cheapest way to do that is to implement a rigid system and be difficult to beat. When that "goes well" they'll nick points. They'll still have fans complaining about "style" and whatever but as Stoke proved, it's amazing what fans will put up with provided they get results. The moment that changes those managers don't have the "good football" kudos to fall back on, and ultimately it's an entertainment business. Take Smith for example last year - really bad situation we were in but at least we were entertaining which bought him time.

He doesn't really have a rigid system though, and that's the problem I reckon. They don't really press, they don't play a low block like say Burnley do. None of the pundits seem to be able to know what their system is. They just kind of languidly soak up pressure, and then pray for some magic by 1 of the lads up front.

There are managers, like Dyche, Allardyce, Hodgson and Moyes whose style, while not pretty, is very much defined and drilled into the players. Can't really say the same for Newcastle. It was my biggest criticism of him while he was our manager. 2 years at the club, with about a dozen of his own signings, and every game we went out there, the players looked like a bunch of strangers all making their debut.

[desensitized43]

14 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

He doesn't really have a rigid system though, and that's the problem I reckon. They don't really press, they don't play a low block like say Burnley do. None of the pundits seem to be able to know what their system is. They just kind of languidly soak up pressure, and then pray for some magic by 1 of the lads up front.

There are managers, like Dyche, Allardyce, Hodgson and Moyes whose style, while not pretty, is very much defined and drilled into the players. Can't really say the same for Newcastle. It was my biggest criticism of him while he was our manager. 2 years at the club, with about a dozen of his own signings, and every game we went out there, the players looked like a bunch of strangers all making their debut.

I agree but there could be a lot of reasons why the system he's trying to play isn't working. Maybe the players he has don't fit or haven't bought into it? Maybe they're just shite . I suspect he'll be doing some serious defensive work on the training ground and get a result you don't expect from somewhere.

I really disliked him at Villa but saw him as a bit of a necessary evil. We were a complete shitshow under DiMatteo and were in real danger of a Sunderland-style slide to L1. Whether you liked his style or not (and I certainly didn't!) he made sure we consolidated in the division, and we did move forward the following season - whether you believe we should have been promoted automatically is another question. I don't think the players looked like strangers. I think we had some fantastic attacking players but didn't give them the freedom to express themselves. We had far too many draws that season where we should have been beating teams comfortably with the players we had.

Edited January 25, 2021 by desensitized43

[useless]

This idea that Bruce 'stopped the rot' is the biggest myth going, any manager would have improved us because of the massive amount of money that we had spent by championship standards, if Di Matteo had have stayed he probably would have done just as well as Bruce did in that first season, we weren't even playing badly in the lead up to him getting sacked.

Similarly if we'd have appointed Pearson, or Moyes instead of Bruce, they'd have done just as well, and probably better, it's not like Bruce did anything that any half competent manager couldn't have done in that first season, after spending nearly £80m we finished thirteenth, eighteen points off the play offs, and thirty one points off the top two, he didn't 'stop the rot' at all and was lucky to keep his job after that first season.

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by useless

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, TheStagMan said:

Wonder how Sheffield Wednesday fans feel about him?

I doubt they will be too pleased and I doubt he would have got them out of the mess they're in either.

[useless]

A lot of Sheffield Wednesday fans surprisingly seem to like him and say they would take him back, despite the fact that when he first signed for them there was that thing of him staying in the Caribbean for the first month to watch cricket, and then he left them as soon as Newcastle came calling, despite the fact that he'd already signed five players for Wednesday that Summer, so he kind of left them in limbo.

Edited January 25, 2021 by useless

[Keyblade]

51 minutes ago, desensitized43 said:

I agree but there could be a lot of reasons why the system he's trying to play isn't working. Maybe the players he has don't fit or haven't bought into it? Maybe they're just shite . I suspect he'll be doing some serious defensive work on the training ground and get a result you don't expect from somewhere.

I really disliked him at Villa but saw him as a bit of a necessary evil. We were a complete shitshow under DiMatteo and were in real danger of a Sunderland-style slide to L1. Whether you liked his style or not (and I certainly didn't!) he made sure we consolidated in the division, and we did move forward the following season - whether you believe we should have been promoted automatically is another question. I don't think the players looked like strangers. I think we had some fantastic attacking players but didn't give them the freedom to express themselves. We had far too many draws that season where we should have been beating teams comfortably with the players we had.

They looked well-drilled under Benitez. Same core group of players. Don't think it's the personnel. They have what looks to be a solid, if unspectacular midtable side, which they were under Benitez. Now they just look like comfortably the worst team in the league, which given some of the squads there at the bottom of the table that is just not good enough. The media and Bruce like to make a strawman of Newcastle fans wanting European football or whatever nonsense. They just want a team that competes in every game and isn't in danger of relegation. 

[Xela]

One thing I think Bruce did well at was changing the culture at Villa. Previously it was toxic, but Bruce started the change into something so much better

The players he signed like Hourihane, Taylor, Johnstone, Terry, Elmo, Whelan, Snodgrass (loan), Tuanzebe (loan), El Ghazi (loan), Abraham(loan) and McGinn, were all good strong characters and performed well for us, some of them still here and playing well. 

Even players who were poor purchases like Hogan and Lansbury had better attitudes than some we had previously. 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by Xela

[Zatman]

the highlights are now crosses

[Genie]

19 minutes ago, Zatman said:

the highlights are now crosses

They’d made something like 13 crosses during the first half against us. Didn’t come anywhere close to scoring a goal.