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15 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

Redknapp went off on one about kids not playing football in the streets any more..... 

I think it was Keegan who scrapped their academy maybe a decade ago. Dunno if they re-instated it since, but there's something in what Redknapp says, isn't there? There's usually been a super talented Geordie or two in the league, with whatever team(s) - Shearer, Gascoigne, Waddle etc. But they don't seem to be making them any more.

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11 minutes ago, blandy said:

I think it was Keegan who scrapped their academy maybe a decade ago. Dunno if they re-instated it since, but there's something in what Redknapp says, isn't there? There's usually been a super talented Geordie or two in the league, with whatever team(s) - Shearer, Gascoigne, Waddle etc. But they don't seem to be making them any more.

Yes and no.

Yes they aren’t producing players but when have Newcastle as a club, not as a region, ever produced players?” I struggle to think of many. It isn’t like they are a club that has a reputation for it, Shearer went down to Southampton to make it.

The point is though they were talking about their performance last night and the performance of Bruce and Redknapp went off on a tangent about youth players and kids playing football in the street. He had a point it just wasn’t relevant.

There are many issues at Newcastle from the owner down but a lack of youth development isn’t the cause of their current woeful form. It isn’t as of Bruce has some track record of bringing youth players through, in fact I’d suggest he has never done so anywhere.

So yes Redknapp is right they aren’t producing players but as you allude to that isn’t a new think and it had no place in the discussion post match last night.  It just seemed like yet another person in the media deflecting from Bruce and any kind of objective oversight.

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29 minutes ago, blandy said:

I think it was Keegan who scrapped their academy maybe a decade ago. Dunno if they re-instated it since, but there's something in what Redknapp says, isn't there? There's usually been a super talented Geordie or two in the league, with whatever team(s) - Shearer, Gascoigne, Waddle etc. But they don't seem to be making them any more.

Do they not have an academy?

How have the Longstaff brothers made their way through to the first team squad?

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3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Yes and no.

Yes they aren’t producing players but when have Newcastle as a club, not as a region, ever produced players?” I struggle to think of many. It isn’t like they are a club that has a reputation for it, Shearer went down to Southampton to make it.

The point is though they were talking about their performance last night and the performance of Bruce and Redknapp went off on a tangent about youth players and kids playing football in the street. He had a point it just wasn’t relevant.

There are many issues at Newcastle from the owner down but a lack of youth development isn’t the cause of their current woeful form. It isn’t as of Bruce has some track record of bringing youth players through, in fact I’d suggest he has never done so anywhere.

So yes Redknapp is right they aren’t producing players but as you allude to that isn’t a new think and it had no place in the discussion post match last night.  It just seemed like yet another person in the media deflecting from Bruce and any kind of objective oversight.

Two things. I agree that Bruce ha no record of bringing youth through - that's one of the reasons I didn't want him as Villa manager when others were happy with his appointment saying it might be just what we needed, or citing his record of promotions, or just because they were happy about a change from 5 years of dire results.

Redknapp (and the Sky people) were not just discussing Bruce, they were discussing Newcastle as a club, and that's where I felt what JR said was relevant - as you say there are many issues at Newcastle, so it's a difficult job (as was the Villa job when Bruce took over). Neglected clubs, badly run, are hard to turn round, Rafa couldn't do anything other than keep them up playing turgid football, and Bruce is the broadly same (but likely worse) in that regard. Rafa (though I don't like him at all) is a much more capable manager than Bruce (who I also don't like as a manager). Newcastle will always struggle whoever is the manager until the owner goes and those other issues you mention are resolved. It's quite parallel with Villa in a way - a long period of neglect, lack of care and attention to aspects which come together to make the manager's job very difficult. I think their fans are well aware of that, but they (unsurprisingly) don't like the Stone Age football style. At least with Rafa they had a manager who said things they liked hearing.

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2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Do they not have an academy?

I think Keegan scrapped their reserves or whatever the name of it is - U-23s or some such. Maybe not the actual academy, but a leg of the journey from youth to first team No idea if they re-instated it after KK went.

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The difference (well, one of the differences anyway) is that one of them actually achieved something that allowed them room to be magnanimous to their predecessor. 

Plus, to be fair, Steve Bruce followed a popular manager at Newcastle. Dean Smith followed an unpopular manager at Villa.

 

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6 hours ago, blandy said:

Redknapp (and the Sky people) were not just discussing Bruce, they were discussing Newcastle as a club, and that's where I felt what JR said was relevant - as you say there are many issues at Newcastle, so it's a difficult job (as was the Villa job when Bruce took over). Neglected clubs, badly run, are hard to turn round, Rafa couldn't do anything other than keep them up playing turgid football, and Bruce is the broadly same (but likely worse) in that regard. Rafa (though I don't like him at all) is a much more capable manager than Bruce (who I also don't like as a manager). Newcastle will always struggle whoever is the manager until the owner goes and those other issues you mention are resolved. It's quite parallel with Villa in a way - a long period of neglect, lack of care and attention to aspects which come together to make the manager's job very difficult. I think their fans are well aware of that, but they (unsurprisingly) don't like the Stone Age football style. At least with Rafa they had a manager who said things they liked hearing.

The whole Rafa / Bruce comparison was something I was trying to stay away from but I can't not comment on it, before doing so though I disagree about Rednapp as they weren't discussing Newcastle as a club they were discussing the game and Bruce's performance. In Bruce's interview he said he was "encouraged" by the performance and Redknapp was asked if he had seen anything to be encouraged about to which he responded;

"No, not really, especially when you see that run. You can't deny it, it's a rotten run. You can talk about the style of football all you like its just not been good enough really. The fans will always accept results but if you're playing the style of football they are and still losing games, that's not good enough. But like Steve Bruce has said, this has been the situation for the last three of four years, since I've watched Newcastle in this period, Rafa, Steve Bruce. I look at the manager and I feel sorry for him, because I like Steve Bruce, I played against him, he's a warrior. He's not a quitter.

But he must think to himself, I don't need this. The fans are sick to death of everything right now and understandably, because it;s not good. It's not good viewing. I didn't for one second tk they'd get a result. I didn't believe they'd beat Sheffield United last week. But even if they did change the manager and there's a possibility they could - I don't see a new manager coming in and changing too much with that squad. "

He then got onto the stuff about the academy and them not producing players before this gem.

"You could go and get Rafa back. Taht might be something they look at, or that's the fans' dream maybe but I don't think he changes anything with this squad"

The above pretty much boils down to 'its not good enough but its been like it for years so its not down to Bruce, Rafa couldn't do better' its the same old "who could they get better" rubbish we had to put up with. Christ he even says he feels sorry for him! Honestly, I think this is absolute guff from Redknapp and him then going on to youth production really has little to do with the here and now.

That takes me to the Rafa comparison's or rather the comparison's between how they played under Rafa and under Bruce. Now I don't like Rafa at all and I really don't like his approach to the game but I think any comparison between his sides and Bruce's is fundamentally flawed. Only yesterday I saw Phil Neville describe Rafa as a tactical genius when talking about his Everton playing days against his Liverpool side, I don't think anyone has ever said that about Bruce and for good reason.

Yes Rafa plays defensive football but it is tactical, players have very defined roles and responsibilities and he dictates in micro detail what he wants from them. Bruce doesn't play defensive football, he just plays deep with men behind the ball and hopes. The two are not the same.

You say Rafa couldn't do anything other than keep them up and play turgid football, the second point is true but the first is factually wrong in my opinion. Newcastle were not easy on the eye but they were progressing directly as a result of his coaching and tactics.

The squad Bruce inherited had the 8th best form in the PL in their final 28 games before he took over, the 5th best form in the final 16 PL matches before he took over. They had the 7th best defence in 2017/2018 and 208/19. Bruce then spent or sanctioned the spending of £100m in 18 months on the squad, a level of investment Rafa couldn't have dreamed of during his reign.

Not only has Bruce not taken them forward he hasn't even kept them standing still. For Redknapp to suggest Rafa couldn't do any better with the squad Bruce has is insulting and ridiculous. It is in my view biased, biased by his personal views on the guy he says he likes and simply doesn't stand to the simplest of scrutiny. The stuff about youth development to me just comes across as a deflection from criticism of Bruce something we've seen consistently with some in the media.

Yes Newcastle will struggle to really progress under Ashley whoever is manager but had Rafa remained and had the £100m does anyone really think they would be no better off now? I find that impossible to comprehend.

Newcastle fans contrasting attitude towards Bruce and Rafa isn't because they liked what the later had to say, in my opinion, it is because they can see the difference between a well coached and well organised side and a pick and pray mess that is a Bruce team. As Villa fans, having seen it up close for ourselves we too should see the difference.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9180393/Redknapp-tears-Newcastles-academy-claims-currently-INCAPABLE-producing-superstars.ht

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I think one of the most damning parts of yesterday was that they didn't even ask Bruce about the Watkins offside decision and the controversial law that's recently come to light, because Newcastle were never in the game and it wouldn't have made a difference either way. 

Probably the only game this season where there wasn't a contentious talking point where 1 manager didn't feel aggrieved. Probably the most routine win by any team this season

 

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1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Dean Smith talking about his predecessor midweek vs Steve Bruce talking about his predecessor midweek:

 

An actual nice guy vs a Nice Guy™.

Excellent spot.

Steve Bruce is a rocket polisher.

Sad he gets support from some still, I hope they know he'd push them under a moving train immediately if it benefited him.

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

The whole Rafa / Bruce comparison was something I was trying to stay away from but I can't not comment on it, before doing so though I disagree about Rednapp as they weren't discussing Newcastle as a club they were discussing the game and Bruce's performance. In Bruce's interview he said he was "encouraged" by the performance and Redknapp was asked if he had seen anything to be encouraged about to which he responded;

He then got onto the stuff about the academy and them not producing players.

The above pretty much boils down to 'its not good enough but its been like it for years so its not down to Bruce, Rafa couldn't do better' its the same old "who could they get better" rubbish we had to put up with. Christ he even says he feels sorry for him! Honestly, I think this is absolute guff from Redknapp and him then going on to youth production really has little to do with the here and now.

That takes me to the Rafa comparison's or rather the comparison's between how they played under Rafa and under Bruce. Now I don't like Rafa at all and I really don't like his approach to the game but I think any comparison between his sides and Bruce's is fundamentally flawed. Only yesterday I saw Phil Neville describe Rafa as a tactical genius when talking about his Everton playing days against his Liverpool side, I don't think anyone has ever said that about Bruce and for good reason.

Yes Rafa plays defensive football but it is tactical, players have very defined roles and responsibilities and he dictates in micro detail what he wants from them. Bruce doesn't play defensive football, he just plays deep with men behind the ball and hopes. The two are not the same.

You say Rafa couldn't do anything other than keep them up and play turgid football, the second point is true but the first is factually wrong in my opinion. Newcastle were not easy on the eye but they were progressing directly as a result of his coaching and tactics.

The squad Bruce inherited had the 8th best form in the PL in their final 28 games before he took over, the 5th best form in the final 16 PL matches before he took over. They had the 7th best defence in 2017/2018 and 208/19. Bruce then spent or sanctioned the spending of £100m in 18 months on the squad, a level of investment Rafa couldn't have dreamed of during his reign.

Not only has Bruce not taken them forward he hasn't even kept them standing still. For Redknapp to suggest Rafa couldn't do any better with the squad Bruce has is insulting and ridiculous. It is in my view biased, biased by his personal views on the guy he says he likes and simply doesn't stand to the simplest of scrutiny. The stuff about youth development to me just comes across as a deflection from criticism of Bruce something we've seen consistently with some in the media.

Yes Newcastle will struggle to really progress under Ashley whoever is manager but had Rafa remained and had the £100m does anyone really think they would be no better off now? I find that impossible to comprehend.

Newcastle fans contrasting attitude towards Bruce and Rafa isn't because they liked what the later had to say, in my opinion, it is because they can see the difference between a well coached and well organised side and a pick and pray mess that is a Bruce team. As Villa fans, having seen it up close for ourselves we too should see the difference.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9180393/Redknapp-tears-Newcastles-academy-claims-currently-INCAPABLE-producing-superstars.ht

It's also worth pointing out (to @Mark Albrighton 's point as well) that Rafa's starting point was a virtually (and eventually) relegated Newcastle. He had to build them back up from the Championship to be the solid midtable side that Bruce took over, and then spent £100m on top of.

I saw one Newcastle fan say that Rafa essentially quit because Ashley wouldn't let him finish higher than 10th. Meanwhile Bruce seems to be revelling in Newcastle (his boyhood club by all accounts) being a bottom half club, and using that as a crutch. The gulf between the two couldn't be more apparent.

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Football 365 have went through Bruce today in an article comparing both clubs, though i feel the writer might be a Villa fan from his wording😂

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14 hours ago, blandy said:

I think Keegan scrapped their reserves or whatever the name of it is - U-23s or some such. Maybe not the actual academy, but a leg of the journey from youth to first team No idea if they re-instated it after KK went.

That's shocking actually. 

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10 hours ago, Keyblade said:

It's also worth pointing out (to @Mark Albrighton 's point as well) that Rafa's starting point was a virtually (and eventually) relegated Newcastle. He had to build them back up from the Championship to be the solid midtable side that Bruce took over, and then spent £100m on top of.

I saw one Newcastle fan say that Rafa essentially quit because Ashley wouldn't let him finish higher than 10th. Meanwhile Bruce seems to be revelling in Newcastle (his boyhood club by all accounts) being a bottom half club, and using that as a crutch. The gulf between the two couldn't be more apparent.

I’ve said it before - but this myth that Rafa spent nothing and Bruce has spent loads needs to stop. It simply isn’t true.

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14 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I’ve said it before - but this myth that Rafa spent nothing and Bruce has spent loads needs to stop. It simply isn’t true.

I don’t think anyone says Rafa spent nothing, he did spend money. However the figures I’ve read suggest he made a net profit over three years in the market. As for Bruce he has spent in excess of £100m.

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