Zatman Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Lets agree to disagree. You disagree to the facts 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 14 hours ago, Genie said: I think that is why the rating of adequate. Came in when we were on the slide and in a mess, got us very close to promotion but not quite over the line. All things considered i’d agree with adequate. And the amount we had to spend this summer was because he left us with nothing going forward. Aging squad, loans and lots of contract expiry. And Smith takes criticism for getting us up and struggling when we're here. Is it any surprise?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, momo said: And? Smith brought in Drinkwater this January...Sometimes they get decisions right, sometimes they don't Well now you're changing the subject. You said we couldn't blame him for the state of the squad because of the change in ownership. Yet he's sending players away that ultimately we needed. And as others pointed out still signed players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zatman said: You disagree to the facts Delusional.....the facts you use are interpreted in to your opinion.the other facts i choose are interpreted in to a different opinion, for me. don't claim the morale high ground, when you prove nothing. what part of we don't agree on this, do you not understand? Edited March 12, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Just now, TRO said: Delusional.....the facts you use are interpreted in to an opinion. So if I get this right then, these are just an opinion and didnt happen Bruce didnt loan out one of our 2 senior centre backs James Chester didnt lose a year of his career because of Bruce negligence Elphick wasnt replaced in the squad by Bolasie and Tammy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 minute ago, Zatman said: So if I get this right then, these are just an opinion and didnt happen Bruce didnt loan out one of our 2 senior centre backs James Chester didnt lose a year of his career because of Bruce negligence Elphick wasnt replaced in the squad by Bolasie and Tammy Steve Bruce did a whole heap more than that in his tenure with us., he did a lot of good too, that i can't be bothered to list, i've done this umpteen times.....you choose to use that criteria to form your opinion on him......i use other facts to form a different opinion. are you struggling to understand our differences on this. You use one set of facts, i use another set of facts to form a different opinion mate its an argument thats not winnable, because we have a different opinion on him. I am not going to answer another response.....its getting boring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, TRO said: Steve Bruce did a whole heap more than that in his tenure with us., he did a lot of good too, that i can't be bothered to list, i've done this umpteen times.....you choose to use that criteria to form your opinion on him......i use other facts to form a different opinion. are you struggling to understand our differences on this. You use one set of facts, i use another set of facts to form a different opinion mate its an argument thats not winnable, because we have a different opinion on him. I am not going to answer another response.....its getting boring That wasnt the discussion though, you were defending him sending out Elphick on loan and now changing the discussion to say he did good things. Which wasnt the point Also you have said a number of times in this thread it will be your last post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 6 hours ago, Zatman said: As for the financial rug, I am sure Elphick was shipped out and replaced same time by Tammy and Bolasie Not saying I disagree in principle, but surely that shows a contraint, yes? That he had to send someone out in order to get someone in. I mean, if I was given the option of Elphick at the back or Tammy... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 20 minutes ago, Zatman said: That wasnt the discussion though, you were defending him sending out Elphick on loan and now changing the discussion to say he did good things. Which wasnt the point Also you have said a number of times in this thread it will be your last post You just want to seize one piece of critera to justify your argument, i am equally entitled to do the same to justify my argument......i'm done mate, its juvenile now. So why do you respond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 Boo hoo he let elphick go, pages & pages on here saying he was an absolutely shite donkey that should never kick a ball again, Bruce lets him go and he's suddenly better than Franco Baresi.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 49 minutes ago, Zatman said: So if I get this right then, these are just an opinion and didnt happen Bruce didnt loan out one of our 2 senior centre backs James Chester didnt lose a year of his career because of Bruce negligence Elphick wasnt replaced in the squad by Bolasie and Tammy One of those three is a fact, if you think all three are then you may need to look up the meaning of fact 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 8 hours ago, Zatman said: Sending 1 of your only 2 senior centre backs on loan. The other centre back has practically had a year of his career ruined That was criminal Sure. But Smith kept on playing him, and there where incoming players that didn't materialize. And Elphick might have wanted to go. It's easy to criticize not knowing the full truth. It was a shit summer and I am sure everyone did their best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 7 hours ago, Mjvilla said: And the amount we had to spend this summer was because he left us with nothing going forward. Aging squad, loans and lots of contract expiry. And Smith takes criticism for getting us up and struggling when we're here. Is it any surprise?? He also left us by not going up with a culled owner in Xia( hallelujah).....(quite a silver lining that) and an opportunity of good ones like now. These arguments have many slants to them....it depends what folk want to look for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 1 hour ago, LakotaDakota said: Boo hoo he let elphick go, pages & pages on here saying he was an absolutely shite donkey that should never kick a ball again, Bruce lets him go and he's suddenly better than Franco Baresi.... Your ability to erect and take down a strawman with one fell swoop is unparalleled on this site. Hope Stevie B sees this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mjvilla Posted March 13, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2020 12 hours ago, TRO said: He also left us by not going up with a culled owner in Xia( hallelujah).....(quite a silver lining that) and an opportunity of good ones like now. These arguments have many slants to them....it depends what folk want to look for. Yes, it was quite a silver lining, I'd agree. But to use it as something to congratulate Bruce on, I'm not sure. Sounds a bit ridiculous if I'm honest. Smith gets no credit for taking us up and having us in a position where we have it in our own hands if we survive or not (granted, it doesn't seem likely). But Bruce gets credit for failing to get us promoted. Not sure I see any sense to be honest. Like you said, it depends what folk are trying to look for...... 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 15 hours ago, LakotaDakota said: Boo hoo he let elphick go, pages & pages on here saying he was an absolutely shite donkey that should never kick a ball again, Bruce lets him go and he's suddenly better than Franco Baresi.... I was someone who never saw why Elphick was criticised as heavily as he was. At the start of the season he was one of our most consistent players, then he had a 3-4 game spell where he made a few blunders and Bruce lost complete faith in him. He came back in for a few fleeting appearances and I thought he looked fine. The fact that he went to Hull and was picking up MOTM awards and getting their 'player of the month' (IIRC a couple of times), just shows that he wasn't as bad as was being made out, and that it was a bad decision to let him go when we had ONE other senior centre-back. If we had 3-4 central defenders then you could understand it, but for Bruce to let him go and continue the season with Jedinak and Chester as our back 2 was just ridiculous. Made worse by the fact that we had Tuanzebe in our ranks, but Bruce preferred playing him at right-back or on the bench. Bizarre mis-management. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, Rob182 said: I was someone who never saw why Elphick was criticised as heavily as he was. At the start of the season he was one of our most consistent players, then he had a 3-4 game spell where he made a few blunders and Bruce lost complete faith in him. He came back in for a few fleeting appearances and I thought he looked fine. The fact that he went to Hull and was picking up MOTM awards and getting their 'player of the month' (IIRC a couple of times), just shows that he wasn't as bad as was being made out, and that it was a bad decision to let him go when we had ONE other senior centre-back. If we had 3-4 central defenders then you could understand it, but for Bruce to let him go and continue the season with Jedinak and Chester as our back 2 was just ridiculous. Made worse by the fact that we had Tuanzebe in our ranks, but Bruce preferred playing him at right-back or on the bench. Bizarre mis-management. Yeah, it was miscalculation that ultimately got Bruce fired. Think even Bruce will admit it was a huge mistake. It was just baffling. Could be that he was so confident that Harold Moukoudi would sign that he got blindsided but even if he had signed we'd have needed another body at CB. It was ludicrous to think that Jedi could be a starting CB and just as stupid and stubborn to continue with Axel at RB. It was like he was petulantly trying to prove everyone wrong and it got him fired. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mjvilla said: Yes, it was quite a silver lining, I'd agree. But to use it as something to congratulate Bruce on, I'm not sure. Sounds a bit ridiculous if I'm honest. Smith gets no credit for taking us up and having us in a position where we have it in our own hands if we survive or not (granted, it doesn't seem likely). But Bruce gets credit for failing to get us promoted. Not sure I see any sense to be honest. Like you said, it depends what folk are trying to look for...... I think you are missing the point like many.....No one is or has been praising Bruce, they have been answering posters who have in their view unfair criticism aimed at him, by picking out selective bits of criteria to further their argument.....posters like me have then reminded them of some of the good stuff he did.....but a balanced argument has been lost to intransigence.....Look, I am not going to change your view and your not going to change mine, so the argument is moot. I have wriiten to this effect umpteen times and my point has still been ignored....lets get this the right way around...his critics started it, his defenders just responded, I say to anyone ,don't try to twist that to suit your own agenda.....no one has praised Steve Bruce, just disagreed with SOME of the criticism, in as much as the imbalance employed....sure we have quoted some good stuff to address that imbalance.....thats is not praise in itself, its defending the imbalance. Dean Smith has had plenty of Praise from the same folk who argue like me.....and I have said umpteen times on here that, initially I prefer Deans football, now I cannot honestly say that now....but in general I do. Its futile to continue to discredit Bruce , to allow Dean Smith a free passage, if thats what the plan is, because thats what it looks like to me.....I can think of no other reason, to continue this monologue on Steve Bruce. Edited March 13, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Everyone: CORONAVIRRUSSSSSSS TRO: Hang on, I need to clear something up in the Bruce thread again 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Bruce started the turnaround of the Villa juggernaut which I'm thankful for. He stopped the slide but I'm glad we made the change when we did. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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