Steve Bruce

[Mantis]

I used to be one of McLeish's biggest critics and while he was obviously a crap manager for us, he was still comfortably better than Bruce.

[bannedfromHandV]

30 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

So if we can't compare the PL of today to that of 7-8 years ago, why the hell are you comparing the Championship of today to the PL of 7-8 years ago or even 20 years ago in some cases  . Did you forget the list you made?

My whole point was that, there's no point comparing different eras and contexts to which you initially disagreed, and now in a roundabout way are agreeing with. Make up your mind man.

If you insist on making comparisons, the only fair metric I can think of is how the managers performed relative to their remit and the resources they were given to achieve it. Alex McLeish performed adequately in that respect. The goal was to stay up, he was given 15m to do it, and he did. The season before where we finished in the top half as you mentioned, we literally only achieved on the last day, and were in a relegation scrap for 80% of it. So did David O'Leary. Which is why I said I can only really agree with Tim Sherwood and RDM from your list being worse than Bruce if I use this metric (I don't remember Vengloss tbh).

Personally though, I'd put Tim Sherwood in his own class and then all of our other managers of the past 20 years bar Dean Smith and MON together in their own class as they were all varying shades of the same shit. Poor managers managing poor teams under poor ownership, or in the case of Steve Bruce, poor manager managing a good team under good (at the time) ownership. Not sure if that makes him worse,  but whatever.

Okay cool, this all began (again) because of the usual “worst manger we’ve ever had” crap, so I listed Managers I felt had done a worse job taking all things into account, but mostly - based on what I saw and how I felt during their tenures.

Im not dissecting it into comparing specific results or the circumstances in the boardroom because honestly - none of us really know any of that, we like to think we know but we don’t, for all you and I know McLeish’s remit was to win the league (which it obviously wasn’t but just to make a point).

Lets just agree to disagree because whatever I write you’ll have a comeback for, factual or otherwise.

I do not think Bruce was a disaster, I do not think he’s the worst manager we’ve ever had, I think any comments along those lines are total OTT and done for effect and to fit an agenda/narrative.

[Keyblade]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

Okay cool, this all began (again) because of the usual “worst manger we’ve ever had” crap, so I listed Managers I felt had done a worse job taking all things into account, but mostly - based on what I saw and how I felt during their tenures.

Im not dissecting it into comparing specific results or the circumstances in the boardroom because honestly - none of us really know any of that, we like to think we know but we don’t, for all you and I know McLeish’s remit was to win the league (which it obviously wasn’t but just to make a point).

Lets just agree to disagree because whatever I write you’ll have a comeback for, factual or otherwise.

I do not think Bruce was a disaster, I do not think he’s the worst manager we’ve ever had, I think any comments along those lines are total OTT and done for effect and to fit an agenda/narrative.

I don't think he was a disaster just like I don't really think McLeish/Lambert/Garde/Houllier etc weren't disasters. It obviously wasn't sunshine and roses either. I'd say they were all comparable despite having different circumstances, which is why I don't really object to much to the worst manager tag. Any one of 10 of them could take that title (if we ignore Tim Sherwood, who isn't even a manager).

What I think pushes him over the edge for some people and leads to some hyperbole are a.) His favourable set-up, which was perfect for him to succeed whereas most of the other managers were shafted and b.) his general nastiness towards fans, something also seen with DOL.

[bannedfromHandV]

6 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I don't think he was a disaster just like I don't really think McLeish/Lambert/Garde/Houllier etc weren't disasters. It obviously wasn't sunshine and roses either. I'd say they were all comparable despite having different circumstances, which is why I don't really object to much to the worst manager tag. Any one of 10 of them could take that title (if we ignore Tim Sherwood, who isn't even a manager).

What I think pushes him over the edge for some people and leads to some hyperbole are a.) His favourable set-up, which was perfect for him to succeed whereas most of the other managers were shafted and b.) his general nastiness towards fans, something also seen with DOL.

You don’t object to the tag because you are and have been part of the vocal anti-Bruce movement. 
It’s like not objecting to someone giving you £10 for nothing.

[Keyblade]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

You don’t object to the tag because you are and have been part of the vocal anti-Bruce movement. 
It’s like not objecting to someone giving you £10 for nothing.

It's just an opinion, not a movement lol.

I was very pro-Paul Lambert during the majority of his time here for example, but I wouldn't object to him being called our worst manager ever either. It's not personal.

[useless]

No doubt for me that he was a disaster, he played his part in the club nearly going out of business both because of his signings and loans and because he couldn't manage to get one of the most expensive ever championship squads promoted, any half competent manager would have had us top two or at least actually challenging for automatic promotion and making a better go of the play-offs if it came to that. Most Sunderland fans will pinpoint the money he wasted there as the start of their downfall as well.

[Lichfield Dean]

Alan Hutton believes Steve Bruce's formation is hindering Newcastle's front three

Hutton played under Bruce at Aston Villa and feels Newcastle's forwards are suffering as a result of Bruce's set-up

 

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alan-hutton-believes-steve-bruces-17317247.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[Zatman]

Hutton talking sense

[villa4europe]

53 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

What I think pushes him over the edge for some people and leads to some hyperbole are a.) His favourable set-up, which was perfect for him to succeed whereas most of the other managers were shafted and b.) his general nastiness towards fans, something also seen with DOL.

what set him apart for me was what I 1st posted in this thread, he has a ceiling in the PL, he has the success of getting promoted but then being shit and building old overpaid squads that you struggle to shift, he was basically only ever at best going to take us back to where we had just come from and I wanted nothing to do with it, watching Newcastle last night Im sat thinking that would be bruce's villa, awful football desperately hoping to stay alive, he would have set us back 4 or 5 years just being that shit that wont flush all over again

theres no joy in having steve bruce as your manager because I don't think its possible to have hope with him as your manager, even promotion would have been tinged for me, in hindsight its right too, imagine if we had won the playoffs with him and xia, where would we be now? 

 

[Keyblade]

Quote

"But I do think the way Steve Bruce sets his teams up, there is such a big gap between the midfield and the striker. It leaves them isolated, it is difficult and you are asking him to do something spectacular to score a goal."

"I don't see why not. This is the thing. Everywhere Steve Bruce has went he has tried to play this formation. When we were at Villa he tried to make us play that formation and it didn't quite work out, we didn't quite get going.

"I find it quite difficult for the striker. It is very difficult to play that way."

Well damn. From the horse's mouth.

[VillaJ100]

The thing with Lambert he should have gone after the Bradford farce. 

[Hornso]

To be a bit contrarian, we really struggle to break down teams when they put men behind the ball and until those two set pieces we hadn't really created much of note. It wasn't until they had to start chasing the game and space opened up, that we started to look better going forward and ironically didn't add to the score. If Bruce's plan was to come and get a point, on another night he might have got it. 

From a spectacle point of view though, thank **** we don't have to watch that shit week in, week out any more 

 

 

[villalad21]

"We didn't really get going" Yet he led us all the way to a play off final

[Keyblade]

11 minutes ago, Hornso said:

To be a bit contrarian, we really struggle to break down teams when they put men behind the ball and until those two set pieces we hadn't really created much of note. It wasn't until they had to start chasing the game and space opened up, that we started to look better going forward and ironically didn't add to the score. If Bruce's plan was to come and get a point, on another night he might have got it. 

From a spectacle point of view though, thank **** we don't have to watch that shit week in, week out any more 

 

 

This is why it's such a shit tactic. If the other team manage to get a goal, it all falls apart. You score an unfortunate own goal, and it's game over. 

[sne]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

"We didn't really get going" Yet he led us all the way to a play off final

Where we didn't really got going 

[TRO]

15 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Brought Mcginn to our club. I will forever be thankful to Bruce for that.

and Hourihane and El Ghazi ( loan)...ironic I suppose.

But Dean has the ability to set them all up to play progressively.

[TRO]

I think Bruce was right at the time we signed him and I think it was the right decision when he went...He steadied a very uneasy time for us.

I don't get all the slagging off, Thankfully many clapped him when he came out.

However, You only had to see how he set them up, to know that the decision was right for him to go.....and the one to bring Dean in.

Our new owners and CEO have also made a hell of a difference in club stability

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I don't get all the slagging off, Thankfully many clapped him when he came out.

As they all did when he was here, despite him lying in the press Villa fans were giving him stick.

A conniving, selfish man, who is a horrific excuse of a football manager to boot.

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

As they all did when he was here, despite him lying in the press Villa fans were giving him stick.

A conniving, selfish man, who is a horrific excuse of a football manager to boot.

SOME fans were giving him stick and he responded to those fans....not all.

That is not the opinion of our current manager who presumably knows him.....Dean is quite complimentary towards him as a person.....but that's Dean always the gentleman.

My wife who is a season ticket holder has met him and his wife, in her last job....said he is a charming fella, I believe her.

He has presided over 800 games in the top flight, so hardly an excuse as you describe it.

so, I too don't like the style of football he presides over and glad he is no longer here....but lets not confuse what we think of him as a manager and then as a person.

so he got slagged off by some fans and responded by defending himself against those fans.....wouldn't you?.....I am damn sure I would.

Edited November 27, 2019 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

40 minutes ago, TRO said:

SOME fans were giving him stick and he responded to those fans....not all.

Giving him stick or booing losses and draws and bad performances in the Championship when we had about 25x the resources of our opponents? 

He made it up TRO. He got in there first to try and blame fans for the team underperforming. He made sure the media were fed this poppycock so he could fall back on it later. He's done it for years and years and years.

He's a propaganda machine.