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Considering the resources, transfer fees and wage budget at his disposal compared to everyone else in this division.. failure to get promotion is on par with a relegation from the premier league as far as I'm concerned

people saying he has a better win percentage so is better than any villa manager ever is beggars belief when you consider the facts

For me every season he fails to get promotion is a worse feat than likes of Taylor, Lambert, McLiesh etc keeping us up.

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24 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

So come on, lets have your list of the five worst managers, rather than just dismissing other people's views. You specifically added that he wouldn't be in the top 5 from the last 12 years - so lets make it easy by limiting it to that timeframe. 

Don't even know why I'm rising to it but here you go (not necessarily in an order):

1. Remi Garde

2. Alex McLeish

3. Eric Black

4. Roberto di Matteo

5. Paul Lambert

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1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

What good work did Remi Garde, Eric Black or Alex McLeish do?

What good work did Harry Redknapp do at any of his last few clubs?

 

Some Managers are total failures, Les Reed was a total failure at Charlton (off the top of my head). There's one eventuality to being a football Manager which is that it will end and in 90%+ of cases it will end with a sacking/removal. That does not have to translate to being a total failure.

 

Give the tea lady a pay rise????......ffs....

 

 

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5 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Don't even know why I'm rising to it but here you go (not necessarily in an order):

1. Remi Garde

2. Alex McLeish

3. Eric Black

4. Roberto di Matteo

5. Paul Lambert

Going off topic here but....

While I dislike Eric Black as much as the next man, as he was a caretaker manager I’d put Sherwood ahead of him on this list.

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5 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

Going off topic here but....

While I dislike Eric Black as much as the next man, as he was a caretaker manager I’d put Sherwood ahead of him on this list.

It was a toss-up between the two, I went with Black because, despite being caretaker Manager he still presided over some of the very most inept and disillusioning performances I've ever witnessed from a Villa team.

Sherwood should really be in there I agree but for about 4-6 weeks during his tenure I thought maybe, just maybe he might have been turning us into a decent side.

Then he was given a summer and a pot of cash and the rest, sadly, is history.

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23 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

No in Bruce's eyes I don't think it is. We don't push high enough up the pitch and get right into other sides faces. As I said earlier our wide players are more concerned with protecting our full back than getting in the face of the opposing teams full back. The starting position of our wide players and centre forward/forwards is too deep when the other team have the ball. That is Bruce's way of defending so despite what looks on paper a 4-3-3 is really a 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1.

but, if that is so....its not working, because we are conceding too many goals.

If we are committing too many players to defensive duties ( not arguing with that) its even worse, because we can't defend.

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23 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

No in Bruce's eyes I don't think it is. We don't push high enough up the pitch and get right into other sides faces. As I said earlier our wide players are more concerned with protecting our full back than getting in the face of the opposing teams full back. The starting position of our wide players and centre forward/forwards is too deep when the other team have the ball. That is Bruce's way of defending so despite what looks on paper a 4-3-3 is really a 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1.

I agree....But If you are going to press, you have to press as a team, not a renegade few.

For that to work, our back four has to come out and close the lines between defence and midfield and subsequently midfield and forwards.

The problem as I see it is....the back four lack pace to get back.....now that is either them not wanting to get caught out or the manager knowing they have a deficiency or just plain cautious and playing to orders.

I think we are saying the same things in slightly different ways.

Whatever or whoever the problem sits with.....We can all see it.

I just don't see the problem going away.

Edited by TRO
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21 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

We really never get a good manager do we. Round and Around we go. 

just short term fixes.

No long term strategy.

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53 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

What good work did Remi Garde, Eric Black or Alex McLeish do?

What good work did Harry Redknapp do at any of his last few clubs?

 

Some Managers are total failures, Les Reed was a total failure at Charlton (off the top of my head). There's one eventuality to being a football Manager which is that it will end and in 90%+ of cases it will end with a sacking/removal. That does not have to translate to being a total failure.

 

Alex Mcleish brought in 22 mil in transfer fees.

Now despite his tenure being a complete waste of time for us the fans.....it was a ( short term) result for the owner and the financial men, when money was important to them.

I don't know what Alex McLeish's remit really was.....but in terms of football, its not too dissimilar from what we are getting now.

sadly, we don't always know what is being said behind the scenes.

 

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30 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree....But If you are going to press, you have to press as a team, not a renegade few.

For that to work, our back four has to come out and close the lines between defence and midfield and subsequently midfield and forwards.

The problem as I see it is....the back four lack pace to get back.....now that is either them not wanting to get caught out or the manager knowing they have a deficiency or just plain cautious and playing to orders.

I think we are saying the same things in slightly different ways.

Whatever or whoever the problem sits with.....We can all see it.

I agree with almost everything you have said but I don't think overall we do lack pace at the back. Jedi is the obvious weak link in that regard but Tuanzebe is the ready made replacement for him. Chester is no slouch, Hutton is probably one of the quickest players in our squad and Elmo again is no slouch. In fairness though you don't really need speed merchants to play higher up the pitch you just need players who are in tune with each other. 

I think it is plain now that this is just Bruce's way of playing. We don't press teams and don't try to push them back by having starting positions that are higher up the pitch. Instead we sit off and choose to start defending from inside our own half. He has turned over a huge amount of players since he has been here and regardless of personnel we play the same so that has to point to it being the managers way. That way of playing just hands the initiative to the opposition though and if they are cute, as Sheff Wednesday were on Saturday, this sit deep and invite teams on to us to then hopefully spring attacks doesn't work against teams who maintain their shape and stay solid defensively. 

We played our best football on Saturday, as we often do, when we went a goal down and then did push further up the field as a team and pinned Wednesday in their own half. Then after McGinns goal and perhaps a 5 minute spell after we lost momentum again.

Unlike last season when we were more solid defensively and could then hope to snatch a goal from a moment of quality now we have a squad weaker defensively because of the loss of Terry but heavy on attacking quality with an overly cautious and defence minded manager. All the evidence so far this season points to it never working.

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1 hour ago, TheStagMan said:

So come on, lets have your list of the five worst managers, rather than just dismissing other people's views. You specifically added that he wouldn't be in the top 5 from the last 12 years - so lets make it easy by limiting it to that timeframe. 

Erick Black, Roberto Di Matteo, Paul Lambert, Remi Garde, Tim Sherwood, Alex McLeish, Gerard Houllier.

Basically everyone since MON. Which is hardly a compliment.

I think only Houllier could really be argued as better. But even that is a stretch.

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1 hour ago, lainux said:

Any one buying Fifa 19 the Bruce Out Edition?

fifa-19-cover-ultimate-edition - Copy.jpg

Does it come with a kebab as a pre order bonus?

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Tactics, gameplans, and extensive due diligence on upcoming opponents are paramount in managing a professional football club at this level. But I think just as important are a team of blokes who want to play for their manager; and run through brick walls for him, because they actually like what they are working toward every day when they come into work, they are fully engaged and on board with what they are being coached. Proof enough was last night as fledgling manager with zero experience Frank Lampard, takes his Derby side to Old Trafford and pretty much outplays a manager who has won everything in the game with all the experience and resources in the world. Man Utd dont look like they want to play for JM. Once that respect goes its very hard to get a group back on side. Think there are a lot of similarities going on with us. Throwing players under the bus, etc. 

Its plain to see of those qualities needed to be a successful manager that Bruce has none of the above. Our players couldnt look less engaged, they quite literally look confused on the pitch.

Tactics X

Gameplan X

Man Management X

Due Diligence on Opponents X

Ability to Learn from mistakes X

Protect players when under pressure X

Developed style of play/identity after 24+ months in role X

Im convinced our squad can achieve so much more, there is no time to waste. I really think its so blatantly obvious now that the wheels must already be in motion at boardroom level in regards to finding the right replacement. I think Steve steadied a ship, with an embarrassment of resources, but on the whole has turned out to be average when all we probably needed to get promoted was slightly better than average. #SpudBeGone

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1 hour ago, lainux said:

Any one buying Fifa 19 the Bruce Out Edition?

fifa-19-cover-ultimate-edition - Copy.jpg

One of the few silver linings of us not getting promoted last season is that we won't have to suffer a digital Steve Bruce on the touchline whilst playing FIFA.

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I think lambert is on the same level as Bruce. If the latter had taken over Villa the season Lambert did with the same instructions to cut costs along with a shoe string budget. I reckon we would have got relegated. 

Delph aside that squad was awful. 

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39 minutes ago, Straggler said:

One of the few silver linings of us not getting promoted last season is that we won't have to suffer a digital Steve Bruce on the touchline whilst playing FIFA.

Your wish is my command!

 

D6B3EA10-8611-4AFB-9512-AD119A1B5436.jpeg

Edited by jim
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4 hours ago, sne said:

Relegation and millions of pounds did that.

He turned draws under RDM into wins and losses.

We lost almost as many as we won during his first season. He lost 13 and won 15. 

 

But overall he  took over a side that had won  14 out of nearly 70 games starting from when Sherwood took over. So it wasn't just Di matteos draws he changed, if it was that simple RDM would have started winning from day 1. He turned us around, we would have just done what Sunderland have if we kept RDM. 

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13 minutes ago, holteend1982 said:

But overall he  took over a side that had won  14 out of nearly 70 games starting from when Sherwood took over. So it wasn't just Di matteos draws he changed, if it was that simple RDM would have started winning from day 1. He turned us around, we would have just done what Sunderland have if we kept RDM. 

Thankfully we'll never know.

FWIW I think if RDM had been given the same misguided patience as Bruce has it's not that far fetched he'd have us about where we are now.

And saying that I really don't rate RDM, at all.

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