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19 hours ago, imavillan said:

 

 

 

Interesting comments on Tuanzebe. Bruce has made specific comments about him in his press conference.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/lets-see-can-work-magic-15062058

Tuanzebe

“We have no option to buy him.

“He’s improving all the time.

“I bet, that’s the first time in years that kid has played four games in ten days.

“You can see, like Sam Johnstone when he was here, that when you get to a certain stage, there’s nowhere to go.

“U23 football becomes too easy and they get lost.

“He will be terrific.

“He’s got better each game and will get better.

“I know he can play right-back.

“Maybe I had in my mind to go for a back three.

“But I didn’t have the players to play it.

“He would have been ideal in that.

 

FWIW i agree with Bruce, playing in the under 23's and playing competitive football in the Championship is a whole different thing and the lad will only get better with more game time.

 

 

 

I think a back 3 would work with Jedi!

 However the midfield couldn't have a set dm in it, else it becomes too defensive.

It's pretty much how he's played since he's been here anyway.

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Speaking last night, he hinted that Tuanzebe could also be moved to the centre in times ahead.

“Maybe his best position going forward is in the centre, but he can play either side too. We will see.

“He’s improving all the time and he will be terrific for us.”

 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villas-loan-transfer-plans-15066989

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It’s good to hear that Tuanzebe is versatile and that SB is considering him at CB. I’ve also read that our new winger can also play at left back and right across the defence. (Although he doesn’t look much like a CB to me.) These are all important options, but if we don’t get at least one more CB we’re only one injury to Chester away from a defensive crisis. To not strength central defence would be at best optimistic and at worst neglect. We got away with it last year and now we have one very important CB less. 

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3 hours ago, 8pints said:

**** me.. has Bruce finally seen the light?

First new fluent football where we looked really good and now realising how good the lad is and has finally twigged he is actually a centre back and will play him there.

If he keeps this up he will be winning some of the Bruce out camp over.   :wub:

 

(Gutted there is no option to buy Tuanzebe at the end. Man utd know what they have on their hands and he will be one of the best centre backs in the world within 5 years imo)

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4 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

**** me.. has Bruce finally seen the light?

First new fluent football where we looked really good and now realising how good the lad is and has finally twigged he is actually a centre back and will play him there.

If he keeps this up he will be winning some of the Bruce out camp over.   :wub:

 

(Gutted there is no option to buy Tuanzebe at the end. Man utd know what they have on their hands and he will be one of the best centre backs in the world within 5 years imo)

Wow!

That's some endorsement.

Has a long way to go then. Nice of Manure to entrust his development to us.

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3 minutes ago, sne said:

Wow!

That's some endorsement.

Has a long way to go then. Nice of Manure to entrust his development to us.

If he is played week in week out in his natural position at the top level then there is no way he won't be.

But yeah great moves for both clubs as it stands. 

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7 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

We know it's wins and points that will get us up, but has we found to our cost last season, when the emphasis is on caution we allow the opposition to impose themselves. Fortune favours the brave, we're the biggest club in the league, we shouldn't be fearful of any team. You can play on the front foot without neglecting the defence. We need to keep the momentum of Wednesday night, being too cautious  isn't going to help us do that.

Can't really argue with that.....We can do both, just need to tighten up, without impeding our offensive capability.

We haven't finished in the loan Market.....be interesting to see the finished final 11

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14 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

How can he think Jedi is the answer at CB? How nany points is this going to cost us before the obvious dawns? It may cost him his job.

It's things like this that make it impossible to fully support him.

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2 hours ago, VERB27 said:

Not sure if it’s been posted elsewhere, but SB conforming Jedi is very much the answer to our CB scarcity:

https://audioboom.com/posts/6981134-steve-bruce-reacts-to-the-2-2-draw-with-brentford

at 2.25

You've really twisted his words there. He says he sees him as a CB this season (sensible IMO) not that he is the answer to all our issues at the back.

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3 minutes ago, PatrickCousens said:

You've really twisted his words there. He says he sees him as a CB this season (sensible IMO) not that he is the answer to all our issues at the back.

Yes, but this season is all that matters at the moment. Long term planning for CB is all well and good, but we need to deal with the here and now.

Not sensible at all, we really needed to get in a proper CB. With Jedi at the back and only Elphick as a professional CB cover we are really weak at the back (apparently Tuanzebe is a RB/RW now). We are relying on Chester to play pretty much every game. I know he did it last season but that was alongside Terry for the most part, not having to carry Jedinak and cover for his mistakes. 

 

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10 hours ago, TRO said:

I think he has been made aware of the amount of criticism of our play.

I think we all need to be equally aware of the possible trade off....we seem to be conceding goals too.....early days, we will have to see.

We did attack more on Wed, but I am not sure the attack is good enough, to ignore defence....not yet anyway.

It would be nice to do both.....but winning is the objective.

Its not boring games or exciting games that will get us up.....its wins and points.

TRO, of course it’s possible to focus too much on one aspect of the game.  Always has been, always will be.  Based on some of your comments, I thought you believed we were previously too cautious.  Was I wrong?

But you didn’t really give a believable answer my question.   Why, suddenly, in August of 2018 did we finally play the way “we’ve been trying for 2 years.”   His words  (there or thereabouts)  

“He has been made aware of the amount of criticism?“ ..... Recently?  Can’t be that, because he lashed out at his critics months ago.  What did he call us again?  My point is, he has been aware of criticism, but he felt no need to change because of it (clearly his right).  

Or perhaps you mean that he is recently aware of criticism (from those with checkbooks?)   If that’s the case, then he lied when he said he’s been trying to do this for 2 years?  

Im willing to assume he was telling the truth.  Why, all of a sudden, did it work?  TBF, it was one match, and I’m not convinced it’s a trend yet.  I just found it surprising for him to say that’s the way we have been trying to play for 2 years.  When I have seen pretty clear indications we were set up and instructed to play a very different way.

Of course it’s possible to over emphasize offense and neglect defense, not sure Bruce has ever been accused of that. 

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35 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

Yes, but this season is all that matters at the moment. Long term planning for CB is all well and good, but we need to deal with the here and now.

Not sensible at all, we really needed to get in a proper CB. With Jedi at the back and only Elphick as a professional CB cover we are really weak at the back (apparently Tuanzebe is a RB/RW now). We are relying on Chester to play pretty much every game. I know he did it last season but that was alongside Terry for the most part, not having to carry Jedinak and cover for his mistakes. 

 

I agree with you. Bruce may too. 

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Bruce has said that Jedinak is an outstanding player, but doesn’t have the energy for midfield, so he’s playing him at CD. So we have to finding Jedinak a place to play? If he really loses his legs will he be played as goal keeper? Get a central defender, we only have one decent and experienced one in the squad! If Chester gets injured/suspended/loses form we have a real problem. Worse still it’s hardly beyond the realms of possibility that we get two injuries in that position. 

He may well be looking, but if we don’t get at least one CD in it would be recklessly neglect. 

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2 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

TRO, of course it’s possible to focus too much on one aspect of the game.  Always has been, always will be.  Based on some of your comments, I thought you believed we were previously too cautious.  Was I wrong?

But you didn’t really give a believable answer my question.   Why, suddenly, in August of 2018 did we finally play the way “we’ve been trying for 2 years.”   His words  (there or thereabouts)  

“He has been made aware of the amount of criticism?“ ..... Recently?  Can’t be that, because he lashed out at his critics months ago.  What did he call us again?  My point is, he has been aware of criticism, but he felt no need to change because of it (clearly his right).  

Or perhaps you mean that he is recently aware of criticism (from those with checkbooks?)   If that’s the case, then he lied when he said he’s been trying to do this for 2 years?  

Im willing to assume he was telling the truth.  Why, all of a sudden, did it work?  TBF, it was one match, and I’m not convinced it’s a trend yet.  I just found it surprising for him to say that’s the way we have been trying to play for 2 years.  When I have seen pretty clear indications we were set up and instructed to play a very different way.

Of course it’s possible to over emphasize offense and neglect defense, not sure Bruce has ever been accused of that. 

I don't know anymore than the next man....I can only use my powers of deduction......I think its a number of factors.

  • Brentford are not the most physical side in terms of "big units" so I guess he thought he had a chance, to play them at their own game.....and we did for decent spells.
  • His main striker coming back to form maybe give him encouragement to take the game to them.
  • Having a midfielder who can tackle and scheme.
  • The owners having their pennyworth.
  • Fans and media commenting on such a poor start in terms of performances.
  • He has already made reference to his stopping the rot, so being cautious ,perhaps he has let that run for too long?
  • Personnel......Jack and Kodjia back in form , not to mention Mcginn......we didn't have that this time last season.

There is a whole host of reasons.....But it's interesting how he has a superior win ratio to a much fancied Dean Smith, both overall and at present clubs.

With these new players coming in , it may change the dynamic again, slightly.

Yes I did think we were too cautious, but it's his job at stake ,not mine.....I could understand his rationale, even if it frustrated me optically.

I do think it will naturally change with the strength of personnel.

ps............ 2 confident wingers and we will be flying.

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31 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't know anymore than the next man....I can only use my powers of deduction......I think its a number of factors.

  • Brentford are not the most physical side in terms of "big units" so I guess he thought he had a chance, to play them at their own game.....and we did for decent spells.
  • His main striker coming back to form maybe give him encouragement to take the game to them.
  • Having a midfielder who can tackle and scheme.
  • The owners having their pennyworth.
  • Fans and media commenting on such a poor start in terms of performances.
  • He has already made reference to his stopping the rot, so perhaps he has let that run for too long?
  • Personnel......Jack and Kodjia back in form , not to mention Mcginn......we didn't have that this time last season.

There is a whole host of reasons.....But it's interesting how he has a superior win ratio to a much fancied Dean Smith, both overall and at present clubs.

With these new players coming in , it may change the dynamic again, slightly.

Yes I did think we were too cautious, but it's his job at stake ,not mine.....I could understand his rationale, even if it frustrated me optically.

I do think it will naturally change with the strength of personnel.

ps............ 2 confident wingers and we will be flying.

Fair enough.  Maybe I just use the queens English differently.  But what you describe, I would phrase “we’ve been wanting to play a more expansive style, more on the front foot, and in this match I felt it was time to give the lads the freedom to do that and they responded well.” I wouldn’t say “we’ve been trying to play this way for 2 years.”

if he had really been trying to get us to play attacking football for 2 years (the way I understand that phrase) I am baffled as to why one evening in August, it clicked.  

If we Finish the chances we create, just a bit better we’ll be doing well even if the opponents finish their much fewer chances.  

Edit  im happy with it   Just confused by it with his comment   I hope we are changing rather than this match just a blip. 

 

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39 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

Fair enough.  Maybe I just use the queens English differently.  But what you describe, I would phrase “we’ve been wanting to play a more expansive style, more on the front foot, and in this match I felt it was time to give the lads the freedom to do that and they responded well.” I wouldn’t say “we’ve been trying to play this way for 2 years.”

if he had really been trying to get us to play attacking football for 2 years (the way I understand that phrase) I am baffled as to why one evening in August, it clicked.  

If we Finish the chances we create, just a bit better and we’ll be doing well even if the opponents finish their much fewer chances.  

 

I think you are right.....a bit is lost in Interpretation.

When he say's "we have been trying to play like that for 2 years".....I don't think he means the players, I think he means the coaches,inc himself , have had it in their heads to play like that, but points have been the priority and its his call , how to get them.

He is saying he feels , the personnel have not allowed us to do it.....now whether you agree with that is another thing.

That's my interpretation of his comment of course.

What we have to understand is there is a defensive side to every game.....If you have **** off players playing offensively like Man City, you can afford to attack everyone....but as the old saying goes you defend from the front, meaning keeping the ball.....that has not always been prevalent.

Rightly or wrongly, I don't think he has enough confidence to take the brake off, that maybe on the horizon.

It's been a long job with lots of set backs, caused by many folk inc himself......We just need to gradually improve the side and I think we will.

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20 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

if he had really been trying to get us to play attacking football for 2 years (the way I understand that phrase) I am baffled as to why one evening in August, it clicked.  

I posted a few days ago, maybe a week ago, that our play is far to often two three touch football and then pass it to someone marked, but to be fair on Wednesday there was much more movement and much more one or fast two-touch play and it was a big improvement. triangles and everything. It shows the players are good enough, without doubt.

Maybe the same sort of criticism has been raised by the coaching staff and they've been working on it with the players?

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I thought it was a visible improvement in movement and flow.   One I felt confident our players were capable of performing (last year, too).  

To me, the next steps are to do more of the same in their half. Limit decision making errors in our half.  Keep working the wings like we did vs Brentford.  Then when teams finally stop clogging the middle from 15-25 yards out (because the bodies are needed wide to stop the cross or deep to stop the open header) we start hitting jack, McGinn and Connor in the middle to finish from a bit more range.   We could be on the verge of becoming deadly.  (My complaint is that we could have been doing this months ago).  

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