Steve Bruce

[TRO]

25 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think the players have to also take responsibility. There is no way Bruce would set them up at home to sit back and not press players. It makes no sense. At times we see the players just not at it. Slow, predictable and sloppy. Bruce doesn’t make them play like that. 

It must be as frustrating for him as it is for us.  He needs to try and get the best out of them every game. But it’s not just a tactical issue in my opinion. 

I’m not a fan of Bruce but the way some fans go on about him you’d think he is controlling the team with a joypad. 

absolutely spot on.

Edited August 23, 2018 by TRO

[Mazrim]

Tuanzebe may be versatile but he is a centre half by trade. That's his position. Its not open to interpretation - thats where he plays for his club. Therefore why loan him and play him in a position where we have 4 or 5 credible options already, then play a midfielder at CB? 

Jedinak is not a CB. He does a reasonable job of trying to be but the difference is resulting in goals Im affraid. It is correct to challenge this if its not working. The argument that because Bruce and staff have decided its the best thing to do and who are we to argue is bollocks. Can we at least see Tuanzebe in his natural position in the league before deciding its not for him?

We didnt need a right back. We need a centre half.

[Mazrim]

Anyway. Much better last night. Jedi aside I think Bruce got it spot on. More of that attacking pressing football please.

And sign Ollie Watkins in Jan.

[TRO]

I think this playing out of position malarkey is over played IMO...its not ideal, but its not so much of an issue as some make out.

Some incidents like the first goal against last night, was to do with not marking correctly and not challenging.....Ollie Watkins had a free header at the back post, that's not marking tight enough, Maupay was not picked up either.....that's just poor defensive play in general.

Martin O'Neill was a master at playing players out of position....his remarks were.....They learn the game better and have a broader understanding of other areas of the pitch, they become more rounded players.....its opinions.

Ron Saunders also, paid debatable notice at it.....Kenny Swain was a winger, when we bought him, Allan Evans played Centre Forward previously......Dion Dublin played both upfront and at the back....as did Kenny Burns across the road.

Its not about positions.....its about doing the job.

I am always going on about big No 9's.....but I had to stop and think last night, because 5' 7" Maupay showed me, its all about application and intensity ( shouldn't have stayed on, but he did) and chasing balls down.....for a little fella he certainly puts himself about......thats what its all about.

Its more about that, not, playing in an unsuited position.

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by TRO

[imavillan]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I wonder if Steve Bruce and our coaching staff who see Axel in training day in day out are the right people to judge whether he could do a better job than Jedinak at the back.

Or do you reckon the villatalk faithful that have seen him play their against Yeovil know better? 

But on a serious note I’m not confident with Jedinak at the back and Axel on the right.. But calls to play Axel at the back are purely based on wishful thinking that he will be better then Jed.

ive seen nothing in his defending to suggest he would be. I didn’t even think Jed was that bad yesterday.

anyway the answer is a new centre half and a new left back. Anything else will be makeshift and will cost us promotion. 

 

58 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

This all day long.

It's just the classic "we don't know if he's any good so we'll just assume he's better than what's there"

Tuanzebe has shown nothing to suggest he's ready to be our first choice CB.

Jedinak isn' good enough either, but I'd trust him over Tuanzebe every day of the week.

 

Axel has potential but he's not there yet by a long shot.

 

14 minutes ago, Mazrim said:

Tuanzebe may be versatile but he is a centre half by trade. That's his position. Its not open to interpretation - thats where he plays for his club. Therefore why loan him and play him in a position where we have 4 or 5 credible options already, then play a midfielder at CB? 

Jedinak is not a CB. He does a reasonable job of trying to be but the difference is resulting in goals Im affraid. It is correct to challenge this if its not working. The argument that because Bruce and staff have decided its the best thing to do and who are we to argue is bollocks. Can we at least see Tuanzebe in his natural position in the league before deciding its not for him?

We didnt need a right back. We need a centre half.

 

Interesting comments on Tuanzebe. Bruce has made specific comments about him in his press conference.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/lets-see-can-work-magic-15062058

Tuanzebe

“We have no option to buy him.

“He’s improving all the time.

“I bet, that’s the first time in years that kid has played four games in ten days.

“You can see, like Sam Johnstone when he was here, that when you get to a certain stage, there’s nowhere to go.

“U23 football becomes too easy and they get lost.

“He will be terrific.

“He’s got better each game and will get better.

“I know he can play right-back.

“Maybe I had in my mind to go for a back three.

“But I didn’t have the players to play it.

“He would have been ideal in that.

 

FWIW i agree with Bruce, playing in the under 23's and playing competitive football in the Championship is a whole different thing and the lad will only get better with more game time.

 

 

 

[Stevo985]

9 minutes ago, imavillan said:

 

 

 

Interesting comments on Tuanzebe. Bruce has made specific comments about him in his press conference.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/lets-see-can-work-magic-15062058

Tuanzebe

“We have no option to buy him.

“He’s improving all the time.

“I bet, that’s the first time in years that kid has played four games in ten days.

“You can see, like Sam Johnstone when he was here, that when you get to a certain stage, there’s nowhere to go.

“U23 football becomes too easy and they get lost.

“He will be terrific.

“He’s got better each game and will get better.

“I know he can play right-back.

“Maybe I had in my mind to go for a back three.

“But I didn’t have the players to play it.

“He would have been ideal in that.

 

FWIW i agree with Bruce, playing in the under 23's and playing competitive football in the Championship is a whole different thing and the lad will only get better with more game time.

 

 

 

Yep don't disagree with any of that.

he's got potential, and I think and hppe he'll get better and better.

But right now he's not that great.

[Dodgyknees]

50 minutes ago, TRO said:

They were bloody quick in everything they do....even in thought...so proactive.

quite impressed with them.

However, we would have won that bar poor defending.

And a shit referee.

I'm agreeing with TRO. Is the world ending

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Dick said:

And a shit referee.

I'm agreeing with TRO. Is the world ending

Its Contagious.

[Demitri_C]

The other mistake I think Bruce made was not freshening it up at the 75 min mark as players looked shattered 

When we do high pressing we get knackered after 70 min. Have to question the fitness of this as Leeds seem to be able to do it for 90 mins consistently

[Dodgyknees]

2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

The other mistake I think Bruce made was not freshening it up at the 75 min mark as players looked shattered 

When we do high pressing we get knackered after 70 min. Have to question the fitness of this as Leeds seem to be able to do it for 90 mins consistently

The only team I have ever seen run and chase for 90 mins is Leicester, and we all know the theories about that. Considering they don't teach those levels anymore, and didn't the season following their league win, I'm sure we can reach a conclusion 

[vreitti]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

They were bloody quick in everything they do....even in thought...so proactive.

quite impressed with them.

However, we would have won that bar poor defending.

I thought they were quite shit tbh. I just don't see what all the fuss is about. Perhaps I'm blind, or it might be that seeing us actually resemble a football team for once, may have clouded my perception on the night. We indeed gifted them the goals due to poor defending as you say. 

[Kiwivillan]

22 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

The other mistake I think Bruce made was not freshening it up at the 75 min mark as players looked shattered 

When we do high pressing we get knackered after 70 min. Have to question the fitness of this as Leeds seem to be able to do it for 90 mins consistently

I'm Bruce's biggest critic since day one, never wanted him, don't think you can teach an old dog new tricks. That said the signings are encouraging especially if we get Abraham. After today's performance I'm prepared to give him a temporary free pass but the too late subs is one of his worst traits. We were bossing that game for 60 mins

[tonyh29]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

They were bloody quick in everything they do....even in thought...so proactive.

quite impressed with them.

However, we would have won that bar poor defending.

really , I thought it looked like Smith went down a West London council estate and said "Who wants to play football tonight" ... yeah they were quick and energetic with a few throw in routines where our players stood day dreaming but they weren't a patch on the Brentford team that humiliated us the past 2 seasons  ..and as for time wasting around the 70th minute mark at 1 -1 ... just think had they not been doing that , we might not have had a 96th minute in which to score

[Folski]

Expectations are so low right now, it's sad.

Getting into decent positions only to put in shite crosses isn't in my opinion good play. Brentford played some lovely one touch stuff that I haven't seen us ever play with Bruce.

The amount of times we just don't look for a simple 5 yard pass when deep in our own half despite minimal pressure was insane, but will hoof it back to them to put ourselves under more pressure.

We created very little of real purpose, Brentford should have been out of site by the time Kodjia scored.

3 of the back 4 were out of position last night.

I'm sorry but Whelan in my opinion was a man chasing shadows, I only saw the 2nd half but he looked laboured, unsure in possession, like literally get this away from me as quickly as possibly, he had one hoof that went he miss hit went about 30 feet in the air and the spin took it to Grealish. He'd do the so called dirty work and might get a foot on a ball when close to a man but it was effectively going to another Brentford man. Granted some people will say he had 90 odd percent pass completion, the eye test says to me he didn't look assure at all.

[Kiwivillan]

2 minutes ago, Folski said:

Expectations are so low right now, it's sad.

Getting into decent positions only to put in shite crosses isn't in my opinion good play. Brentford played some lovely one touch stuff that I haven't seen us ever play with Bruce.

The amount of times we just don't look for a simple 5 yard pass when deep in our own half despite minimal pressure was insane, but will hoof it back to them to put ourselves under more pressure.

We created very little of real purpose, Brentford should have been out of site by the time Kodjia scored.

3 of the back 4 were out of position last night.

I'm sorry but Whelan in my opinion was a man chasing shadows, I only saw the 2nd half but he looked laboured, unsure in possession, like literally get this away from me as quickly as possibly, he had one hoof that went he miss hit went about 30 feet in the air and the spin took it to Grealish. He'd do the so called dirty work and might get a foot on a ball when close to a man but it was effectively going to another Brentford man. Granted some people will say he had 90 odd percent pass completion, the eye test says to me he didn't look assure at all.

And yet 7 wins and 2 draws last 9 he starts. Maybe eye is off or irrelevant?

Edited August 23, 2018 by Kiwivillan

[holteend1982]

11 hours ago, Folski said:

Ah lads the amount of time a player deep in their own half booted the ball under minimal if any pressure. 

Look at the positions, how many were wrong? If I'm Hourihane, what am I thinking seeing Whelan on the pitch?

 

How much of a good defensive midfielder whelan is maybe? He's a lot better than Hourihane at that role. People underestimate the importance of a proper dm and just think going with two naturally attacking cms in the centre will work fine, I can't name any top team in the world who don't use an out and out defensive central midfielder in their teams. 

 

[Kiwivillan]

3 minutes ago, holteend1982 said:

How much of a good defensive midfielder whelan is maybe? He's a lot better than Hourihane at that role. People underestimate the importance of a proper dm and just think going with two naturally attacking cms in the centre will work fine, I can't name any top team in the world who don't use an out and out defensive central midfielder in their teams. 

 

Leicester then Chelsea won Premiership because of same one. 

[rodders0223]

38 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

The other mistake I think Bruce made was not freshening it up at the 75 min mark as players looked shattered 

When we do high pressing we get knackered after 70 min. Have to question the fitness of this as Leeds seem to be able to do it for 90 mins consistently

It would have been wise, proactive and all that, but last night was one of the few occasions where I looked at midfield 3 and thought I wouldn't take any of them off. They played that well.

[weedman]

7 minutes ago, Folski said:

Expectations are so low right now, it's sad.

Getting into decent positions only to put in shite crosses isn't in my opinion good play. Brentford played some lovely one touch stuff that I haven't seen us ever play with Bruce.

The amount of times we just don't look for a simple 5 yard pass when deep in our own half despite minimal pressure was insane, but will hoof it back to them to put ourselves under more pressure.

We created very little of real purpose, Brentford should have been out of site by the time Kodjia scored.

3 of the back 4 were out of position last night.

I'm sorry but Whelan in my opinion was a man chasing shadows, I only saw the 2nd half but he looked laboured, unsure in possession, like literally get this away from me as quickly as possibly, he had one hoof that went he miss hit went about 30 feet in the air and the spin took it to Grealish. He'd do the so called dirty work and might get a foot on a ball when close to a man but it was effectively going to another Brentford man. Granted some people will say he had 90 odd percent pass completion, the eye test says to me he didn't look assure at all.

Against a team being praised to the hilt for their football, unbeaten in the league, considered genuine promotion contenders, we had more shots, more on target, more possession, more passes with a higher pass completion %, more passes in the final 3rd (by an absolute mile), more key passes, more corners, all against a ref that saw Brentford make double the number of fouls as we did and give us more bookings, failed to send off their player for a blatant stamp and missed a fairly clear cut penalty, and we snatched a 95th minute equaliser. 

And some people are happy with this?! You're right, people need to raise their expectations a bit 

[holteend1982]

1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said:

Leicester then Chelsea won Premiership because of same one. 

And he was absolute class for France when they won the world cup