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4 hours ago, sne said:

There are just way, way, way ,way, way............... to many teams around the world with far, far.... (you get the point) worse squads than us that are able to create a style that is recognizable, works for them and is working for them and they are able to repeat even when 1 or 2 even key players are out.

There are also loads of teams with amazing squads that fail to perform or look like a functioning unit despite this.

No team is ever perfect (OK Bayern that one season under Heynckes, Barca with Pep, Brazil back in the day...) but waiting for that one player to fix it, especially for a Championship side is just naive.

I'd say it's more telling of the manager how he and the team is when he doesn't have all the tools and everyone and everything handed to him on a silver plate.

If Bruce can't operate without all this then he's never going to be successful, here or anywhere else.

One, player.....you are kidding yourself.

but if he's no good....he will be replaced.

Edited by TRO

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2 minutes ago, TRO said:

One, player.....you are kidding yourself.

but if he's no good....he will be replaced.

Totally not the point but yeah I see why you jumped on that specific part.

Silly of me to include it.

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4 hours ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Good post. Agree with your points but you can't compare cricket to a real sport such as football.

Thanks.

I wasn't.....i was comparing specialist roles.

Edited by TRO

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13 minutes ago, sne said:

Totally not the point but yeah I see why you jumped on that specific part.

Silly of me to include it.

Not silly, its your view.

i just happen to think we have many player issues......maybe thats why they are trying to get players in for the first eleven.

We have lost half the team, is it any wonder we have issues.

Edited by TRO

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Just now, TRO said:

Not silly, its your view.

i just happen to think we have many player issues......maybe thats why they are trying to get players in for the first eleven.

 

Sure we do, like every team in the Championship.

 

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Interesting that Leeds are playing with 3 of the back 4 not in their natural positions, I guess that rules out Bielsa for a few posters, or is it only a problem if Steve Bruce does it? 

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3 minutes ago, weedman said:

Interesting that Leeds are playing with 3 of the back 4 not in their natural positions, I guess that rules out Bielsa for a few posters, or is it only a problem if Steve Bruce does it? 

Injuries might play a part?

I know at least Pontus Jansson is out.

For all I know he might be doing it for shits or giggles, we all know Bielsa is nuts.

Would still swap in a heartbeat thou.

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1 minute ago, sne said:

Injuries might play a part?

I know at least Pontus Jansson is out.

For all I know he might be doing it for shits or giggles, we all know Bielsa is nuts.

Would still swap in a heartbeat thou.

Oh who knows why managers do it really, but there must be a reason, because they literally ALL do it. The great Pep relied on Snakian Delph at LB last season, Southgate got England to the Semi Final of a World Cup with Kyle Walker at CB, Man Utd converted both Ashley Young and Valencia to wing backs. Hell, Gareth Bale started his career as a LB before he was played out of position. We played Barry and Milner out of position in the middle, even Petrov was an attacking midfielder before he moved back into the defensive role 

I don't even bother to mention it anymore because I've just accepted its something every manager will do, and it's something that fans who don't like that manager will always use as a stick to beat them with. I just found it amusing, all the love Bielsa gets he goes and "does a Steve Bruce", couldn't help to mention it 

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40 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not silly, its your view.

i just happen to think we have many player issues......maybe thats why they are trying to get players in for the first eleven.

We have lost half the team, is it any wonder we have issues.

Bruce cannot improve players with coaching, he improves teams by bringing in better players, he will struggle to do that to the extent he needs to so I would imagine he won't make the end of October.

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48 minutes ago, TRO said:

Not silly, its your view.

i just happen to think we have many player issues......maybe thats why they are trying to get players in for the first eleven.

We have lost half the team, is it any wonder we have issues.

Have we ?

Terry and Snodgrass, and Johnstone.

Grabban only started 9 or 10 games.  Axel is still here. Not sure how many Josh started but certainly not anything like  part of a regular team.

From our best/ usual eleven we have Hutton, Elmo, Chester, Jack, CH, Albert, Whelan/ Jedi/ Birkir at least. Then add in Kodja ( rega4dless of Form he’s a regular when fit) and then add on McGinn.

In addition to which it’s a squad game, not a team game, and our squad is largely unaffected by a few loan departures.

So we have most of a squad, and at least 2/3 team, that got 4 th last year.

You and i have always disagreed about the quality of our players ( except pre season last year when you were massively confident !) but as a matter of fact, not opinion, we’ve lost nothing like the amount you infer.

They may be key players, fair enough ( but McGinn already looks a more than adequate swap for Snodgrass) but as many are saying, that happens to EVERY team, EVERY season.

Now, what I Would agree with is that Bruce has certainly referred to losing half his team, and needing ‘ five or six’, and yes, wanting players to come straight into the first Team.

But those who say that’s because he can’t get performances out of a team by coaching, and instead needs better players than every other club, are given fuel by those comments, and yours.

It reads as if in some way he is doing a marvellous job with poor tools - when, poor though those tools can be, they are at least of a comparable quality to others in the League.

Additionally, how much does he contribute to under performance if he keeps pointing out what we have isn’t that good ? I’ve seen Managers do it regularly over the years, and have always preferred those that talk up their players.

It stands to reason if we “ bring better quality” in, we will probably do better. That would be the case even if I were managing us. But the idea that what we have is substandard smacks of an excuse....and it’s one I don’t think he needs. I think we will do just fine. But the sooner HE believes that, the more likely it will be.

 

 

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7 hours ago, London Villa said:

And so if we win tomorrow and are suddenly played three drew one, should he still go or do we wait for the next defeat in the Championship and then get rid? You’re so anti-Bruce it’s boring. The Dean Smith thing equally so. 

Weve had an awful Summer where most managers would have resigned under the conditions that they’ve been under

Back the team, back the manager because right now, we’re up there after a near catastrophe. If we’re nowhere near at Christmas, it’s time to reassess.

With the greatest of respect - you make it sound like Bruce has been hard done by ? The guy failed us for two years and still stays in his job - why on this earth would he walk away from his best gig ever.

i have zero sympathy for him at all - he is a lucky man to be our manager imo 

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18 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Bruce cannot improve players with coaching, he improves teams by bringing in better players, he will struggle to do that to the extent he needs to so I would imagine he won't make the end of October.

I hadn’t seen your post but just made this point in mine, that TROs logic will lead many to just that conclusion.

Certainly if the owners see it that way they will get rid.

You can’t have it both ways. If he’s a good manager ( I think he is) he doesn’t need more and more players. If he needs more and more players, ( I dint think we do) it exposes his limitations.

I find the idea that he is both a good manager AND needs more players to be a tad, shall we say, having ones cake and eating it.

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1 minute ago, terrytini said:

I hadn’t seen your post but just made this point in mine, that TROs logic will lead many to just that conclusion.

Certainly if the owners see it that way they will get rid.

You can’t have it both ways. If he’s a good manager ( I think he is) he doesn’t need more and more players. If he needs more and more players, ( I dint think we do) it exposes his limitations.

I find the idea that he is both a good manager AND needs more players to be a tad, shall we say, having ones cake and eating it.

Yeah, no doubt every manager will try to bring in players to improve their squad.

But to say it's not possible to do a job with the squad we have, I don't buy that.

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One further point.

Insometimes see it argued that if even Pep needs to “ strengthen” then why wouldn’t we ?

Thats an erroneous argument.

Pep has to improve, because he’s in a captive audience of 2, 3 teams fighting for the same prize every year. In that position, with your rivals spending heavily on a very limited supply of exceptional players, a failure to join in means you have gone backwards.

But a Championship Club is in nothing approaching that position.

In this Leage, the best teams disappear each season. You don’t have to compete with them you compete with the same guys as last year plus an assortment of relegated clubs, which, as we’ve seen first hand, can struggle at least as often as succeed.

Additionally, the very best players at your rivals may well have been snapped up by Premier League Clubs - wev3 seen it this close season. So your rivals are probably weaker, and the best have gone. You don’t need to buy to keep up.

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59 minutes ago, weedman said:

Interesting that Leeds are playing with 3 of the back 4 not in their natural positions, I guess that rules out Bielsa for a few posters, or is it only a problem if Steve Bruce does it? 

its only a problem when 1 of those players continuously shows themselves as dog shit when played out of position

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1 hour ago, weedman said:

Interesting that Leeds are playing with 3 of the back 4 not in their natural positions, I guess that rules out Bielsa for a few posters, or is it only a problem if Steve Bruce does it? 

It's a problem if you just judge Bielsa on this one aspect. If Bruce does it, but we look like we actually have a plan, then I'll be more supportive of him.

This Leeds game is a concern though, but mostly because Swansea look really good. Going to be very tough for Bruce to get us up this season.

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52 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I hadn’t seen your post but just made this point in mine, that TROs logic will lead many to just that conclusion.

Certainly if the owners see it that way they will get rid.

You can’t have it both ways. If he’s a good manager ( I think he is) he doesn’t need more and more players. If he needs more and more players, ( I dint think we do) it exposes his limitations.

I find the idea that he is both a good manager AND needs more players to be a tad, shall we say, having ones cake and eating it.

He’s certainly eaten plenty of cake 

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1 hour ago, weedman said:

Interesting that Leeds are playing with 3 of the back 4 not in their natural positions, I guess that rules out Bielsa for a few posters, or is it only a problem if Steve Bruce does it? 

Yes often managers play players out of position for various reasons. The difference with us is, that we expect a lot of the game management to be done by the players during the game in someways instinctively and relies on a certain amount of experience. They’re basically players of decent quality and they are sent out to win the game. This has it’s limitations, but requires players to play in rolls that they are familiar and comfortable with, so we lose a lot when they’re played out of position, particularly younger players. 

Players played out of position, but within a framework where they have more clearly defined rules, at least have a familiar structure to fall back on.  

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7 hours ago, Hoof hearted said:

Or banter? Depends on which side of the Serious county line you were born.

Obviously the opposite side from us, which is no great surprise, tbh.

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