mikeyp102 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Getting results without being able to bring anyone in. Yes some moves are odd, but still manages to grind out results. Hats off to the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 He's doing well results wise but I don't buy the idea that the players are so poor that these very ordinary performances are the best we should hope for or expect. In flashes we see decent enough play- but all too rarely....and we certainly have as many good players as Burton but they played football whereas on the whole we did not. Bruce has clearly decided the priority is to not lose... (starting both Jedi and Gardner yet no Grealish at home to a bottom of the table type club ?)....I can't argue too much with that as (a) the rot needed stopping and (b) he is picking up wins and points......on the other hand 4 home games against 4 of the bottom 5 during which we've yet to really play well or dominate means those wins are masking considerable deficiencies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 26, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 26, 2016 The lack of anything of note attacking wise in our midfield is painfully obvious, especially when we play 4-4-2 Grealish changed the game today. Poor performance but got the win anyway. I'm confident an astute addition to our midfield in January and we'll be flying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) Again im not watching us play. I tried to ask in westwood thread to make some similarities between hull and us...and nobody really answered... how different are we playing from Hull-Bruce (or previous bruce sides)....to villa-Bruce. i ask because many people were slating so much in match thread when i was following saying we wont get promoted playing like this and all this nonsense. although im convinced the way we are playing is reason why bruce will never reach top 10 in english football. But it what makes him a very very successful championship level manager so i think we should get some perspective for what were trying to achieve in current X months of what he taken over. keep winning games in a shit way against shit teams. then when we get to prem, move on. heres best place to ask...can someone tell me how we played with regards to midfield? Did we try to bypass them and go wide like previous times? Did we try to play through midfield? Just tell me tactics about midfield instead of "midfield we were poor". i feel like midfield has taken a very harsh criticism whilst its obvious the play style was to avoid them...so im asking if things have changed and its become obvious its midfield fault Edited December 26, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 18 minutes ago, gharperr said: Again im not watching us play. I tried to ask in westwood thread to make some similarities between hull and us...and nobody really answered... how different are we playing from Hull-Bruce (or previous bruce sides)....to villa-Bruce. i ask because many people were slating so much in match thread when i was following saying we wont get promoted playing like this and all this nonsense. although im convinced the way we are playing is reason why bruce will never reach top 10 in english football. But it what makes him a very very successful championship level manager so i think we should get some perspective for what were trying to achieve in current X months of what he taken over. keep winning games in a shit way against shit teams. then when we get to prem, move on. heres best place to ask...can someone tell me how we played with regards to midfield? Did we try to bypass them and go wide like previous times? Did we try to play through midfield? Just tell me tactics about midfield instead of "midfield we were poor". i feel like midfield has taken a very harsh criticism whilst its obvious the play style was to avoid them...so im asking if things have changed and its become obvious its midfield fault The players individually aren't good enough in centre midfield. That's basically it. Tactically we change game to game. We look better with 3 in midfield but have looked solid playing 4 across the last couple of games. Whether Bruce can get us into the PL top 10 time will tell but he got Wigan and Blues up to 11th and 13th respectively which IMO is then punching way above their weight. If he can get us punching above ours who knows where that'll take us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 42 minutes ago, terrytini said: He's doing well results wise but I don't buy the idea that the players are so poor that these very ordinary performances are the best we should hope for or expect. In flashes we see decent enough play- but all too rarely....and we certainly have as many good players as Burton but they played football whereas on the whole we did not. Bruce has clearly decided the priority is to not lose... (starting both Jedi and Gardner yet no Grealish at home to a bottom of the table type club ?)....I can't argue too much with that as (a) the rot needed stopping and (b) he is picking up wins and points......on the other hand 4 home games against 4 of the bottom 5 during which we've yet to really play well or dominate means those wins are masking considerable deficiencies. Who else could he have played in centre mid? It's Jedinak plus one of Gards Westwood or Bacuna. That's not much choice. We played 2 up top which I prefer especially against lower clubs. Who should Grealish have replaced? Jack played well from the bench and so far he's been better coming off the bench for me. We won with a weak midfield now Bruce needs to sort it in Jan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 26, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 26, 2016 35 minutes ago, terrytini said: He's doing well results wise but I don't buy the idea that the players are so poor that these very ordinary performances are the best we should hope for or expect. In flashes we see decent enough play- but all too rarely....and we certainly have as many good players as Burton but they played football whereas on the whole we did not. Bruce has clearly decided the priority is to not lose... (starting both Jedi and Gardner yet no Grealish at home to a bottom of the table type club ?)....I can't argue too much with that as (a) the rot needed stopping and (b) he is picking up wins and points......on the other hand 4 home games against 4 of the bottom 5 during which we've yet to really play well or dominate means those wins are masking considerable deficiencies. I don't think people are saying the players collectively are too poor to do better. I think the general points made are that the players don't fit together, the midfield is inadequate and there are some players that are being carried. Personally I think all those things are true. I think when Bruce has had the January window and an opportunity (limited opportunity) to bring players in then it will be a more reasonable criticism to level at him about the style of play. We simply don't have the midfield to dominate teams. Or if we do I don't know what the line up is to do it, I'd be interested to hear how you think we should line up? Di Matteo tried to control games and pass the ball and the players showed they just weren't good enough individually or collectively to do it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Just now, TrentVilla said: We simply don't have the midfield to dominate teams. again. did hull-bruce dominate teams? i have no idea just hoping someone can give me answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 27 minutes ago, gharperr said: Again im not watching us play. I tried to ask in westwood thread to make some similarities between hull and us...and nobody really answered... how different are we playing from Hull-Bruce (or previous bruce sides)....to villa-Bruce. i ask because many people were slating so much in match thread when i was following saying we wont get promoted playing like this and all this nonsense. although im convinced the way we are playing is reason why bruce will never reach top 10 in english football. But it what makes him a very very successful championship level manager so i think we should get some perspective for what were trying to achieve in current X months of what he taken over. keep winning games in a shit way against shit teams. then when we get to prem, move on. heres best place to ask...can someone tell me how we played with regards to midfield? Did we try to bypass them and go wide like previous times? Did we try to play through midfield? Just tell me tactics about midfield instead of "midfield we were poor". i feel like midfield has taken a very harsh criticism whilst its obvious the play style was to avoid them...so im asking if things have changed and its become obvious its midfield fault At Hull he played 3-5-2 a lot which is a formation he's never really used at any of his other clubs or indeed here so far. Our play is much like it was in the latter prem years, slow, sideways, pedestrian and low on technique but at this level we can get away with those weakenesses a lot more plus we have some good individual players for this league who can step it up suddenly and win us the game. Today you have Jedinak in his usual sitting infront of the back 4, Gardner who used to be the box-to-box continuity midfielder but injuries have knackered him so he just sits with Jedinak and then Bacuna who has the energy to press. Bacuna started well, scored and he can carry the ball forward well. The problem with that is he dosen't then have the intelligence to release the ball to the overlapping player, twice today in the first half we had two good counter attacks and it was wasted because Bacuna held onto the ball for too long. Jedinak will stay as DM but the other two positions are up for grabs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, gharperr said: again. did hull-bruce dominate teams? i have no idea just hoping someone can give me answer At Hull he played a completely different formation to anything he's played here or at other clubs. I think his time at Sunderland would be a better guide as to the style of football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 26, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, gharperr said: again. did hull-bruce dominate teams? i have no idea just hoping someone can give me answer Honestly I don't know, I can't say I watched Hull in the Championship and I suspect not many can/did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 All I can remember from Hull going up in 12/13 is them playing Wolves right at the end of the season (this was the year Wolves went down a year after being relegated from the prem) and them losing 1-0 and barely having a shot on target. I suspect it was much the same here...Hull had another decent players in the final third who could come up with goals against the run of play/control of games as it's been here in a fair few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 12 minutes ago, gharperr said: again. did hull-bruce dominate teams? i have no idea just hoping someone can give me answer What's that got to do with it? Different players, different time frames. I'm not sure if hull used to dominate teams has much on what we should expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DCJonah said: What's that got to do with it? Different players, different time frames. I'm not sure if hull used to dominate teams has much on what we should expect. youre joking right? you actually think EVERY manager chooses specific tactics towards their squad? loooool. of course you should expect a certain way a manager play if he does it for X period in past..haha cant wait for fat sam or pullis to play to free flowing attacking football if they get job at arsenal.....they wouldnt know where to begin. good job villachris understood where i was coming from and answered my post properly. Keep trying though mate... Edited December 26, 2016 by gharperr almost as if some managers are very very good at certain play styles lol. youre clueless lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 7 wins out of 12 with a team with no midfield and still getting criticism? Back to off-topic I go... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 4 minutes ago, gharperr said: youre joking right? you actually think EVERY manager chooses specific tactics towards their squad? loooool. of course you should expect a certain way a manager play if he does it for X period in past..haha can wait for fat sam to play to free flowing attacking football if he gets job at arsenal.....he wouldnt know where to begin I think managers will have a preferred way of playing, it doesn't mean it will always be the exact same result in dominating teams though. Last time I looked we have our squad and hull had theirs. Anyone who watches games can see it's down to the quality we have in midfield, or should I say lack of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gharperr Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: I think managers will have a preferred way of playing, it doesn't mean it will always be the exact same result in dominating teams though. Last time I looked we have our squad and hull had theirs. no **** shit. Like talking to a child. should be incredibly implied i dont think its going to be EXACT.....but it will be very related....obviously Edited December 26, 2016 by gharperr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Just now, gharperr said: no **** shit. Like talking to a child. should be incredibly implied i dont think its going to be EXACT.....but it will be very related....obviously Haha. You took about dominating teams, as if that would be the managers choice to not dominate even if they could. Theres no point comparing that because like I said, different teams. Now styles, of course there would be some similarities in how the game is played but you were talking about dominating games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 28 minutes ago, gharperr said: youre joking right? you actually think EVERY manager chooses specific tactics towards their squad? loooool. of course you should expect a certain way a manager play if he does it for X period in past..hahacant wait for fat sam or pullis to play to free flowing attacking football if they get job at arsenal.....they wouldnt know where to begin. good job villachris understood where i was coming from and answered my post properly. Keep trying though mate... I don't think that's a very good example for your point. In Allardyce, Pulis and (by implication) Wenger, you have chosen three managers who are noted for their dogmatic insistence that their teams play in a particular style. Not all managers have as much belief in one system at the expense of all others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 1 minute ago, gharperr said: almost as if thats the point by me asking questions about hull-bruce and villa-bruce? Is bruce like that or not. is previous managment of bruce similar to how were playing or not..sigh.... To be honest, your point was obscured by writing: 36 minutes ago, gharperr said: youre joking right? you actually think EVERY manager chooses specific tactics towards their squad? loooool. of course you should expect a certain way a manager play if he does it for X period in past..haha Which seems to be making the opposite point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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