Steve Bruce

[markavfc40]

26 minutes ago, Richard said:

Now my point was to show that a decent comparison is mcclaren at Derby . He came in at about the same time with them on the same points as us. He inherited a squad , which despite protestations on here, was not his own, he left them 18 months ago and there have been many many changes in the team since then and in the 11 games since has taken 5 more points than we have and sit just one point behind the play off positions. 

 

It is a snap shot though isn’t it. You could look in two games time and Bruce could have taken a point more than McClaren over 13 games.

I also don’t know, mainly because I don’t particularly care, how tough Derby’s games have been and if say like us five of their last six away fixtures have been against teams in the top 8. I also don’t know if they have rode their luck in games or deserved to win all their fixtures under him by double figures.

I think the best thing to judge Bruce on is not against what someone at another club is doing but what we know he has done here. That is that we know he inherited an unbalanced squad, that had won 1 game in their last 12 league and cup fixtures, that had taken 10 points from 11 league games, that hadn’t won away from home in 14 months, that had a habit of conceding late goals. In Bruce’s 11 games we have now taken more than twice the points we did in the previous 11, have won 6 games two of those away from home, have stopped conceding late goals and are now the team scoring late in games.

Personally had you have said to me when Bruce arrived 11 games down the line he would have achieved all of the above I would have bitten your hand off. That hasn’t changed regardless of what some manager at some other club is or isn’t doing.

Edited December 20, 2016 by markavfc40

[Grasshopper]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

 

Personally had you have said to me when Bruce arrived 11 games down the line he would have achieved all of the above I would have bitten your hand off. 

me too.

It's even more annoying how negligent RDM was regarding team building.

I'm beginning to think that he didnt do the targeting

Imagine Bruce being here from the off

We would be involved in a 3-way race for the title

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, a m ole said:

posts usually get loads of likes when they are well put rebuttals of over the top ridiculousness, to be honest. You paint 'likes' here as some sort of political agenda against you.

Villatalk is merely a platform with which to attack Richard, didn't you know that?

[blandy]

3 hours ago, VillaCas said:

if our ambition is to be more than a yo-yo club I think that we needed to take that risk. Let's imagine that SB does get us up this season - he will be (rightly) hailed as a hero and there would be no appetite or fair reason to look to replace him. Money will be spent and we will sign the kind of workmanlike player that SB always signs. We will struggle around the lower end of the table until we get relegated or SB is replaced. We will then be in another of our endless transition phases and the whole sorry cycle will begin again

I didn't want SB as manager either, and partly for the reasons you posted about him being an upper Championship/Lower Prem type of manager. I don't much like the style of football his teams have played, or the way that he seemed to get quite unwell at Sunderland, with the pressure and stress.

But I think the bit I've quoted is kind of not really right. It can't be because it's just an imagined potential future. We cannot know who he might sign if we went up, what resources he'd get. We cannot know the team would struggle, and to be fair, even if we did - well basically everyone struggles when they go up these days - It's almost harder to stay up than get up. That's not really a fair stick to beat SB with, IMO.

Anyway, now he's here, he's done a decent job so far given the unbalanced squad. There are some mysteries and unfathomable selections/non-selections, but seeing as I don't go to the training ground I can't know why they are made, or what would have happened if Gabby had remained frozen out, or Tschibola had played more. End result is we've done pretty decently so far. It's not pretty, but it's solid.

He's the manager, he's presented himself well, turned the team round and started to turn the club round, so I'm not gonna fuss about me not wanting him at the time he got the job. It's done and he's doing alright.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if we were to make the play-offs, and if we do, we'll have done very well indeed.

[hippo]

Apparently he is playing baby jesus in the club nativity play ! 

[TRO]

31 minutes ago, blandy said:

I didn't want SB as manager either, and partly for the reasons you posted about him being an upper Championship/Lower Prem type of manager. I don't much like the style of football his teams have played, or the way that he seemed to get quite unwell at Sunderland, with the pressure and stress.

But I think the bit I've quoted is kind of not really right. It can't be because it's just an imagined potential future. We cannot know who he might sign if we went up, what resources he'd get. We cannot know the team would struggle, and to be fair, even if we did - well basically everyone struggles when they go up these days - It's almost harder to stay up than get up. That's not really a fair stick to beat SB with, IMO.

Anyway, now he's here, he's done a decent job so far given the unbalanced squad. There are some mysteries and unfathomable selections/non-selections, but seeing as I don't go to the training ground I can't know why they are made, or what would have happened if Gabby had remained frozen out, or Tschibola had played more. End result is we've done pretty decently so far. It's not pretty, but it's solid.

He's the manager, he's presented himself well, turned the team round and started to turn the club round, so I'm not gonna fuss about me not wanting him at the time he got the job. It's done and he's doing alright.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if we were to make the play-offs, and if we do, we'll have done very well indeed.

The kernel for me is the unbalanced squad.

considering the midfield options he has, I think he has worked wonders.

some think his selections have been questionable.....I think with this squad everyone's selections would be questionable.

[hippo]

Just now, TRO said:

The kernel for me is the unbalanced squad.

considering the midfield options he has, I think he has worked wonders.

some think his selections have been questionable.....I think with this squad everyone's selections would be questionable.

is that Xias replacement for the general ? - seems like a downgrade for me ! 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, hippo said:

is that Xias replacement for the general ? - seems like a downgrade for me ! 

Central then

[dont_do_it_doug.]

8 minutes ago, hippo said:

is that Xias replacement for the general ? - seems like a downgrade for me ! 

Anyone other than the General is an upgrade. Satan himself even. 

[Mantis]

Not sure where else to put this but I've just realised something - we haven't won away from home in the league anywhere north of London since March 2015 when we beat Sunderland 4-0. Oh, and the previous before that was against Liverpool in August 2014. And before that? Sunderland again in January 2014.

Hopefully Bruce can fix this soon!

Edited December 20, 2016 by Mantis

[Demitri_C]

Looking at derby's last 7 games they have played only two sides around play offs. One was at home to Norwich were they squeezed a 1-0 win and the other a draw away to Fulham.  They have some very tough games coming up so this will show if they contenders. Norwich away

Reading home

Ipswich away

[Richard]

4 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

......................

Mark I've not deleted you post for no other reason than long multi quoted threads are a pain.

look its your opinion, some of which I have a degree of sympathy for but fair play to you. The point I am making is that I do not think Bruce has done as brilliantly as some people are making out, I do not believe that he cannot be criticised and I have cited an example of a manager, many of whom would not want him at our club so I accept the comparison is unpallatable for some people, who has done better in similar circumstances. Does that mean Bruce has been crap or I think he has been crap? No. But what it does mean is I am a little more sober about his performance than others on this site.

[Richard]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

The kernel for me is the unbalanced squad.

considering the midfield options he has, I think he has worked wonders.

some think his selections have been questionable.....I think with this squad everyone's selections would be questionable.

Considering the midfield options he has? He has more options than people are suggesting .

[hippo]

Bruce's forte is 'Ship Steadying' IMO.

You have to look at the sides that bounce straight into the prem - in general they seem to be sides who are relegated by a whisker - who are able to keep most of the squad together for the following season.

We didn't get relegated by a whisker - and keeping the squad together just wasn't an option for so many reasons. Throw in the turmoil at the club (we had basically replaced our starting 11 2 close seasons on the trott) and you can see we didn't fit the profile of a club who was going to bounce back at the first attempt. Basically it was a major rebuild with all the risks that entails. RDM just couldn't stop the rot. Bruce has come in and he has got a degree of stability and the rot appears to have been halted.

That said I do think 'no midfield' is being massively overstated. Jedinak is a top performer, Bacuna is more than decent, Gardner is grafter with a good shot on him, and westwood is ok as squad player - we have youngsters in Lyden and Tishbola. Now before you all start hammering your keyboards about gardner and westwood - Im not saying they are fantastic players - but they wouldn't look out of place in many championship sides - Im saying rather than 'no midfield' those 2 are borderline adequate this level - coupled with others we should have enough in there to give Burton Albion (for example) a run for their money.

I like Bruce and was mightily relieved when we got him - if he does have a weakness it is getting his teams to plunder enough goals. So a couple in midfield in jan may help us - but I am not expecting it to be the cure for all ills. IMO getting Ross Mccormack firing on all cylinders would improve us more.

Xia has provided the cash, but lets not forget where we were even with Xia's millions to assemble a promotion winning squad over the summer was a tall order. I hope and think we can scramble into the play offs - If we fall just short Bruce has done enough to have another shot at it. You have to look at QPR and Fulham as to where we were - Fulham are now a credible force in this division - QPR are still in a right mess.  

 

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

33 minutes ago, Richard said:

I do not believe that he cannot be criticised and I have cited an example of a manager, many of whom would not want him at our club so I accept the comparison is unpallatable for some people, who has done better in similar circumstances. 

I haven't seen anybody say Bruce can't be criticised, and the example of a manager who has done better doesn't prove that our manager hasn't done well. 

[briny_ear]

37 minutes ago, Richard said:

I have cited an example of a manager, many of whom would not want him at our club so I accept the comparison is unpallatable for some people, who has done better in similar circumstances. 

Go on, then, Richard. Tell us how many extra points we would have gained if McLaren had taken over from RDM at Villa and how he would have achieved it - what selection and tactical choices McLaren would have made that would have been better than Bruce's.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

Would I have wanted McClaren at the club in October? Probably not. 

Would my opinion be different after what he's been doing at Derby? Certainly. 

Would I have backed McClaren if he was our manager? Absolutely yes.

Would I be out to criticise him after every turn if he'd have produced 6 wins, 3 draws and two losses after his first eleven games? No **** way. 

Oh, and whilst we're randomly comparing mangers for whatever reason:

Bruce in his first ten games: W5 D3 L2

Rowett in the same period: W4 D2 L4

 

 

[sidcow]

8 hours ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

My Uncle John is doing really well with his under 16s team. They've won all their games and scored over 100 goals. It's not even his squad, he's spent no money, and the squad is worth a lot less therefore he is doing better. 

I vote we sack Bruce immediately and appoint Uncle John. 

Can you ask him his views on Gabby first though please. 

[dn1982]

People comparing McLarens performance to Bruce's at this stage is pointless. Derby players have come out and said they still have the legacy of his previous time there and seeing as they've had a few managers in that time you can understand that as no manager has been around long enough to stamp a different ethos on them. Then you've got the difference in fixtures. Look at Derbys tough games all at home. We've played the hardest home teams already this season. Winning 7 games in a row is an achievement and one we need to do at some point but if you gave us those fixtures I'd be confident of doing the same. We're just hitting a decent run of fixtures with the harder games at home so I expect our points to be over the 2 a game Bruce wants and I think you'll see us catching not only Derby but Leeds and the rest. Since Bruce got here we haven't hit the heights of free flowing football but we've closed the gap to where we want to be. We all know this squad is weak in certain areas and no manager can make the likes of Hutton and Westwood into brilliant players. Our weakest area is midfield which needs to be your strongest if you want any form of success. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Richard said:

Considering the midfield options he has? He has more options than people are suggesting .

Oh really.....I'll stick with my last line.