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7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

What if those 4 points don't get us back in?

What if we get back in and then drop out a few games later? Does he get another chance to try and get back in the playoff spots?

Like i said, either he is the right man to meet his targets or he isn't. For me, even if we returned to the top 6 after the next 2 i don't have faith in his ability to promote us this season.

 

If those 4 points don't get us back in, then I'll probably want him gone. If they do, then, for me, it'll be a case of judging his performance on an ongoing basis. If we get back into the play-offs and stay there for 8 games, then drop out for 1 game, I probably wont call for his head if he manages to get us back into the play-off places by the next game. Surely you understand that?

 

I'm somewhere in-between 'it could be risky bringing in a new manager with only a January transfer window and no pre-season' and 'Bruce is underachieving, but we're still one of the candidates for promotion'. As soon as it looks like Bruce isn't getting us back into the play-off places, being the absolute minimum, then he will be performing too badly for me to allow him any leeway because of injuries etc, and I will then want him gone.

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34 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

What if those 4 points don't get us back in?

What if we get back in and then drop out a few games later? Does he get another chance to try and get back in the playoff spots?

Like i said, either he is the right man to meet his targets or he isn't. For me, even if we returned to the top 6 after the next 2 i don't have faith in his ability to promote us this season.

 

There's no need to worry, we ain't getting 4 points from the next two. We will be lucky to get any points, as is always the case with Bruce's football, devoid of any plan whatsoever, we ride whatever luck comes our way.

If Tony doesn't get rid after Bristol, we'll most likely be stuck with Bruce for the rest of the season. 

E: Which won't matter at that point, since we'll have no change for promotion anymore.

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11 hours ago, M_Afro said:

I want those things too but I would like a manager who has already provided that environment at a similar size club. 

And that attitude is EXACTLY what lead us to Bruce........ Its time to accept that we need to try something completely different.

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1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I agree with many of your posts above @sidcow and highlights for me some of the underlying problems that still remain at this club.

It does not help whilst also worrying when majority of fans expectations seem to have now slowly and gradually dipped, piss poor management and displays are slowly being acceptable and peppered against any critiscm in some instances and to a point where many believe Dean Smith is now our answer.  :unsure:    Worrying.

I just hope our chairman and co. can see through this and have our actual sights set a little higher.  :thumb:

OK, so who?

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20 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

And that attitude is EXACTLY what lead us to Bruce........ Its time to accept that we need to try something completely different.

I think you should read back. I never wanted Bruce. I knew exactly what we would be getting with him and I was right. A lack of imagination lead us to Bruce. A similar lack of imagination would lead us to Smith. What are his credentials; His team play well against us, he is a villa fan, he isn’t Steve Bruce! What else exactly? 

He may turn out to be a brilliant manager at a big club but why take the risk. The Villa job is much more attractive than people give it credit. We are a big club, have great facilities, great support, a patient owner, a good squad at this level, a big budget. We should not be scraping around for managers like Smith who have never achieved anything. There is a World of difference between managing Brentford and managing AVFC. We need an innovative but shrewd appointment. We cannot afford another failure!

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9 hours ago, sidcow said:

How big were Manchester United compared to Aberdeen?

You never ever know how a manger will cope

  Should we only appoint a manager who has managed a bigger club than us? If so it will be a sacked manager. I would rather steal a successful manager from a smaller club than appointed a sacked manager from a bigger club. 

I don't think necessarily we need a manager that has only managed big clubs, but we definitely need one that has managed big players. How would terry react if his golf buddy got sacked and a relatively inexperienced manager came in? who knows...but methinks there are some big personalities in the dressing room (guessing the likes of whelan and snod) and we need someone who can handle that and i don't believe dean smith is that man

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3 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

I don't think necessarily we need a manager that has only managed big clubs, but we definitely need one that has managed big players. How would terry react if his golf buddy got sacked and a relatively inexperienced manager came in? who knows...but methinks there are some big personalities in the dressing room (guessing the likes of whelan and snod) and we need someone who can handle that and i don't believe dean smith is that man

I think Terry is a professional so would get on with it. 

However he will be gone in the summer as will Snodgrass. OK we're stuck with Whelan. 

I would rather have the right manager than worrying about a couple of players. 

It's not like we have a squad of galacticos, they have mainly been better quality championship players and bit part Premier league player. 

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Said this was the case before the game - 

Bruce gave us the perfect team talk to beat Aston Villa says Brentford star

“I think it’s hard, no disrespect to Brentford, Barnsley, but this is a different kettle to those clubs where there’s no real expectation,” he said.

“Staying in the division is probably the expectation, with that they can flourish.

Canos added: “I think we read what the Aston Villa manager said about us and we didn't agree in the changing room and we showed everyone that we can push and beat big clubs in this league. That's a challenge.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steve-bruce-gave-perfect-team-14090958

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2 hours ago, Rob182 said:

If those 4 points don't get us back in, then I'll probably want him gone. If they do, then, for me, it'll be a case of judging his performance on an ongoing basis. If we get back into the play-offs and stay there for 8 games, then drop out for 1 game, I probably wont call for his head if he manages to get us back into the play-off places by the next game. Surely you understand that?

 

I'm somewhere in-between 'it could be risky bringing in a new manager with only a January transfer window and no pre-season' and 'Bruce is underachieving, but we're still one of the candidates for promotion'. As soon as it looks like Bruce isn't getting us back into the play-off places, being the absolute minimum, then he will be performing too badly for me to allow him any leeway because of injuries etc, and I will then want him gone.

Do we risk gambling further time and dropping more points in our push for promotion and become a less attractive pull for say a manager that actually could rescue our season and build beyond.

I think we are now dicing with death the more we allow this clown to 'rescue himself' imo.

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1 hour ago, sidcow said:

Not if we appoint the right man.  They are not all pants you know. 

It's whether our own aims and ambitions are as high really or if we are an attractive pull.

I fear the longer we gamble in a hope Bruce gets a miracle the more likely we are to attract someone like Citizen Smith, let alone Dean Smith!

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10 minutes ago, Chicken Field said:

I dislike Bruce and have done since long before he became our manager, I would almost consider hiring McCleish over Bruce, as I honestly feel like Bruce may be the worse manager. 

Bruce may have many promotions to his name, but one thing he has never done, is build a squad capable of promotion whilst in the championship. First promotion at Birmingham in 2003 (14 years ago and oh how football has changed since then) he took over midway through the season and was promoted via the play offs first season, was relagated and took them up again. He was promoted at first try with Hull too, getting relagated and the promotion again at first try. Basically what I'm trying to say, he provides short term success and has never been successfull with a championship side, that he has not gotten promoted at first try (last season was his first try for us).

Bruce does not build teams for the long term. If people want to keep him only because of his record of promotions, then they should also want him gone, as he only gets promotions during his first try. 

I would go for a younger manager next, I would like to  see us try an ambitious bid for Lee Johnson, otherwise I would probably go foreign, as they seem to have been very successfull in this league. I would go for a manager with ideas, that would be willing to let most of our players go and that tried to entertain as well as win. A manager with a philosophy that we could adapt and keep after he left. Let the manager join now, so that he knows which players are capable and not capable for summer, so that he can start clearing out the squad straight away.  p.s, get rid of Wyness too, he is a footballing dinosaur, no more dinosaurs at Villa please! 

One of the posts of the year.   :hooray:

Couldn't agree more.

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3 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Not too bad but it has taken them years on shoe string budgets.

We need out of this league this season or we could be stuck here for a long time.

The expectations at this club would also not allow Dyche or the Howes the time they would need to do the same thing here like they have had time to do at other clubs.

I understand your fears mate but Howe and Dyche, whilst working on those tight budgets, probably never had the quality of player that Villa have right now. Who knows what Smith could do working with the players we have? Let's face it, whoever manages us, they are not going to get better players than this to work with whilst Villa are in the Championship, well certainly not if the FFP advisors turn out to be right.

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1 minute ago, villarocker said:

I understand your fears mate but Howe and Dyche, whilst working on those tight budgets, probably never had the quality of player that Villa have right now. Who knows what Smith could do working with the players we have? Let's face it, whoever manages us, they are not going to get better players than this to work with whilst Villa are in the Championship, well certainly not if the FFP advisors turn out to be right.

Granted.. what happens when we are promoted, can he take us on to that next level where Tony Xia is aiming for, I am not to sure he could?

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18 minutes ago, Chicken Field said:

I dislike Bruce and have done since long before he became our manager, I would almost consider hiring McCleish over Bruce, as I honestly feel like Bruce may be the worse manager. 

Bruce may have many promotions to his name, but one thing he has never done, is build a squad capable of promotion whilst in the championship. First promotion at Birmingham in 2003 (14 years ago and oh how football has changed since then) he took over midway through the season and was promoted via the play offs first season, was relagated and took them up again. He was promoted at first try with Hull too, getting relagated and the promotion again at first try. Basically what I'm trying to say, he provides short term success and has never been successfull with a championship side, that he has not gotten promoted at first try (last season was his first try for us).

Bruce does not build teams for the long term. If people want to keep him only because of his record of promotions, then they should also want him gone, as he only gets promotions during his first try. 

I would go for a younger manager next, I would like to  see us try an ambitious bid for Lee Johnson, otherwise I would probably go foreign, as they seem to have been very successfull in this league. I would go for a manager with ideas, that would be willing to let most of our players go and that tried to entertain as well as win. A manager with a philosophy that we could adapt and keep after he left. Let the manager join now, so that he knows which players are capable and not capable for summer, so that he can start clearing out the squad straight away.  p.s, get rid of Wyness too, he is a footballing dinosaur, no more dinosaurs at Villa please! 

Another thing about those promotions, his teams did well against their fellow promotion challengers in the seasons he won promotion. He hasn't done that last season or this and, for that reason alone, I don't think he will get us promoted.

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