srsmithusa Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 17 hours ago, villalad21 said: I'm tired of having to rebuild every 3 years. We need consistancy at this football club we can't keep changing managers every single year, we're becoming a laughing stock. Yeah, let’s stay consistently crap !!!!! 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 @srsmithusa You seem to have missed my post from an hour ago. When would you have sacked Bruce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, TRO said: .I don't remember any declaration of a blue print or plan......Don't ever remember, Leicester, declaring to the world their master plan either, quite frankly, i think its pie in the sky.....in a rigid form anyway. Yes, I agree. Declaring a grand world view is nonsense. (As an aside, there's a good management writer called Henry Mintzberg who discusses how the grand plans of companies like Shell turn out to be pompous nonsense, and what successful companies do in practice is pursue what he calls "emergent strategy", ie adjust and adapt to what's happening in the real world). Our owners did of course declare a grand world view about being in the top 5 or 10 clubs worldwide or something similarly embarrassing to recount, but that's another story. My point is more that there was a simple but crucial strategic choice to be made, a year ago: plan short term or long term and appoint and buy accordingly. Xia chose short term, I think long term would have been better. 1 hour ago, TRO said: Never remenber any of our successful managers declaring in advance a blueprint and emulated it in practice. Yes, that's not what managers do. They implement the strategic approach dictated to them, for example "develop the academy, bring players through, stay in this league until we are in a position to spend for a promotion challenge", or perhaps "do what it takes to get promoted this year, don't worry about the money for one season at least", or maybe "I know I said there would be transfer funds, but I didn't think so much would be needed, and I have a divorce settlement, and...oh, right, seeya Martin". Managers might declare something about the style of play they want to encourage. That would be in keeping with their remit, would be interesting and engaging, and might also generate some support. From the interesting posts our friend James has contributed, I'd say Bristol are currently ahead of us both on broad strategy and also managerial implementation, dsspite their relatively limited resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted December 28, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, av1 said: Its also worth remembering contract situations though mate. In terms of fees onlone, Hogan, Kodjia, Chester, Adomah all stand out. But we also took advantage of contacts coming to a end. Whilst: Hurihane Lansbury Terry Bree Taylor Etc didn't cost a awful lot in terms off fees's But that's how shit Premier League clubs (like we were, and now aspire to be) go about signing players. They're not in a position to sign good players that other clubs don't want to lose, so they sign players who are free or soon will be. Also, it's not like we took advantage of this by signing players from top clubs. Two of those players were from Barnsley, one from Nottingham Forest, and who had barely played in 18 months for Swansea. The opposite to your argument is that to take out Hogan, Kodjia, Chester and McCormack and we've probably spent less that Small Heath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Is anybody else starting to get worried about the growing number of Villans supporting Dean Smith as the heir apparent? Regardless of the past few years of under achieving, Villa is still a massive job. Why risk someone who has only ever managed very small clubs with low expectations? This is what he said after the match: ”Aston Villa are a big football club and the expectations from their supporters are that they win the league,” Smith added. “Ours are to go and compete against these teams and finish in the top six if we can.” Being manager at Brentford, as he himself accepts, is totally different to being manager at AVFC. If he got the job, he may be brilliant. It is a massive risk however. I think we get into the mindset that any change is welcome and good. That is just not true. We need someone who has taken a big club and moved them forward. Someone used to the pressure of expectation. Someone used to working with highly paid egotistical footballers. I don’t know who that person is but surely there are people at the club, who get paid lots of money, who should be able to identify a suitable replacement! I too want rid of Bruce. I never wanted him in the first place but we have made so many awful appointments. If Bruce goes, which he definitely should, then the replacement has to be suitable. Why risk someone just because his team has played well against us and he was a boyhood supporter? Most teams have played well against us this season but that is why we want to change the manager more than anything else! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post USA_Villa Posted December 28, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, M_Afro said: Is anybody else starting to get worried about the growing number of Villans supporting Dean Smith as the heir apparent? Regardless of the past few years of under achieving, Villa is still a massive job. Why risk someone who has only ever managed very small clubs with low expectations? This is what he said after the match: ”Aston Villa are a big football club and the expectations from their supporters are that they win the league,” Smith added. “Ours are to go and compete against these teams and finish in the top six if we can.” Being manager at Brentford, as he himself accepts, is totally different to being manager at AVFC. If he got the job, he may be brilliant. It is a massive risk however. I think we get into the mindset that any change is welcome and good. That is just not true. We need someone who has taken a big club and moved them forward. Someone used to the pressure of expectation. Someone used to working with highly paid egotistical footballers. I don’t know who that person is but surely there are people at the club, who get paid lots of money, who should be able to identify a suitable replacement! I too want rid of Bruce. I never wanted him in the first place but we have made so many awful appointments. If Bruce goes, which he definitely should, then the replacement has to be suitable. Why risk someone just because his team has played well against us and he was a boyhood supporter? Most teams have played well against us this season but that is why we want to change the manager more than anything else! Not worried at all. Look at how a Dean Smith plays the game, with speed, aggression, expansive and never afraid to go for goal. That's what excites us about bringing him in and playing a style of football that we all crave. We've played the safe card with Bruce and it is absolute dross. No more. We want young, exciting and a team that looks like it has a chance to win every game, not hopefully grind out a result. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 15 minutes ago, USA_Villa said: Not worried at all. Look at how a Dean Smith plays the game, with speed, aggression, expansive and never afraid to go for goal. That's what excites us about bringing him in and playing a style of football that we all crave. We've played the safe card with Bruce and it is absolute dross. No more. We want young, exciting and a team that looks like it has a chance to win every game, not hopefully grind out a result. I want those things too but I would like a manager who has already provided that environment at a similar size club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 57 minutes ago, M_Afro said: Is anybody else starting to get worried about the growing number of Villans supporting Dean Smith as the heir apparent? Regardless of the past few years of under achieving, Villa is still a massive job. Why risk someone who has only ever managed very small clubs with low expectations? This is what he said after the match: ”Aston Villa are a big football club and the expectations from their supporters are that they win the league,” Smith added. “Ours are to go and compete against these teams and finish in the top six if we can.” Being manager at Brentford, as he himself accepts, is totally different to being manager at AVFC. If he got the job, he may be brilliant. It is a massive risk however. I think we get into the mindset that any change is welcome and good. That is just not true. We need someone who has taken a big club and moved them forward. Someone used to the pressure of expectation. Someone used to working with highly paid egotistical footballers. I don’t know who that person is but surely there are people at the club, who get paid lots of money, who should be able to identify a suitable replacement! I too want rid of Bruce. I never wanted him in the first place but we have made so many awful appointments. If Bruce goes, which he definitely should, then the replacement has to be suitable. Why risk someone just because his team has played well against us and he was a boyhood supporter? Most teams have played well against us this season but that is why we want to change the manager more than anything else! Just because he identified Villa's targets and his targets, which are lower, it doesn't mean he is incapable of reaching the targets set by Villa and their fans. Ranieri probably had a target of keeping Leicester in the top flight and making them a top half team but it didnt stop him winning the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honest_bertie Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 35 minutes ago, M_Afro said: I want those things too but I would like a manager who has already provided that environment at a similar size club. But that manger won't be coming because he will already be successful. No one is going to drop down from a similar sized club that is playing well are they? I like the idea of Dean Smith managing Villa the more I think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 35 minutes ago, M_Afro said: I want those things too but I would like a manager who has already provided that environment at a similar size club. If that manager was available and willing to join Aston Villa I doubt anybody would be talking about Dean Smith. Joining a big club with no transfer funds is not an ideal role for a big name manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Rob182 said: Why are my expectations too low? Please explain that to me. I think my expectations are right there in the ‘realistic’ camp. I have no strong feelings towards Bruce that makes me want us to keep him longer than necessary, but I also think that Bruce is being kept in charge with the hope that he can put together another impressive run of wins, like the last time the calls for his head became this loud. I’ve said earlier today that I want Bruce to get at least 4 points from the next two games, and for us to get back into the play-off places in those two games. Are my expectations too low because I’m not calling for Bruce to be sacked today? If so, when did you think that Bruce should have been sacked? Just this week after the latest loss... or a few weeks ago after the loss to Derby?... or maybe back when we drew 3 games in a row against Bristol, Brentford and Middlesbrough? What if he gets those 4 points and then has another run without winning a game? Do you then want another 4 points to keep you happy again? For me, if it's reached a point where there is a specific target over the next 2 games then it's reached the point where he has failed. Either he is the man capable of meeting targets set for him or he isn't. Don't really get what 2 games will do. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 32 minutes ago, M_Afro said: I want those things too but I would like a manager who has already provided that environment at a similar size club. Man Utd probably took Mourinho because he is a multi Champions League winning manager but it doesn't mean he will win it for them - even though he has spent a fortune on transfers. Fans are just identifying Smith as a young manager who has his cheaply assembled team of youngsters playing attractive football that has them just outside the play-offs and seeing him as someone who could maybe do a lot better with the quality of squad that we have. It might work - it might not. Nobody can be certain of that but, what people now seem to be certain of is, Bruce does not seem capable of getting our team, regardless of personnel, to beat those who we need to beat in order to get out of this league. Hence, people want change. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, M_Afro said: Is anybody else starting to get worried about the growing number of Villans supporting Dean Smith as the heir apparent? Regardless of the past few years of under achieving, Villa is still a massive job. Why risk someone who has only ever managed very small clubs with low expectations? This is what he said after the match: ”Aston Villa are a big football club and the expectations from their supporters are that they win the league,” Smith added. “Ours are to go and compete against these teams and finish in the top six if we can.” Being manager at Brentford, as he himself accepts, is totally different to being manager at AVFC. If he got the job, he may be brilliant. It is a massive risk however. I think we get into the mindset that any change is welcome and good. That is just not true. We need someone who has taken a big club and moved them forward. Someone used to the pressure of expectation. Someone used to working with highly paid egotistical footballers. I don’t know who that person is but surely there are people at the club, who get paid lots of money, who should be able to identify a suitable replacement! I too want rid of Bruce. I never wanted him in the first place but we have made so many awful appointments. If Bruce goes, which he definitely should, then the replacement has to be suitable. Why risk someone just because his team has played well against us and he was a boyhood supporter? Most teams have played well against us this season but that is why we want to change the manager more than anything else! Smith cause of his miracles he has worked at Brentford on a tight budet, and also he is a Villa fan. I get the whole Dean smith thing and agree he is a good manager and he hit the nail on the head, however I do not think he is our answer right now if we came to replace Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If that manager was available and willing to join Aston Villa I doubt anybody would be talking about Dean Smith. Joining a big club with no transfer funds is not an ideal role for a big name manager. True, but it is only January they do not have funds. With the players we already have I don't think much cash will be needed, providing we get a manager who will be able to get the best out of our current crop I do not see too much problem, but finding a decent manager willing to go with this is the tricky side. This is a great challenge for anyone worth their salt in management though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 28, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted December 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: What if he gets those 4 points and then has another run without winning a game? Do you then want another 4 points to keep you happy again? For me, if it's reached a point where there is a specific target over the next 2 games then it's reached the point where he has failed. Either he is the man capable of meeting targets set for him or he isn't. Don't really get what 2 games will do. I do kind of agree with you, but these are exactly the same conversations we were having right at the start of the season. "what will 2 games do". And then Bruce took us on an excellent run of form. So in isolation you're right, they prove nothing, but it may show the board that he's turning the bad form around and we're heading back to that good form we showed before. Again, I'm not saying I agree with that, just that we've been here before and he did turn it round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: True, but it is only January they do not have funds. With the players we already have I don't think much cash will be needed, providing we get a manager who will be able to get the best out of our current crop I do not see too much problem, but finding a decent manager willing to go with this is the tricky side. This is a great challenge for anyone worth their salt in management though. Well that's where I don't agree. I think we are an average Championship team and our league place is justified. At the very least You can't get promoted without a striker that can score goals. We haven't even got that. Please do not mention Hogan because lets face it he's shit. Also where are these summer funds going to come from? No top manager would touch this shit with a barge pole. Edited December 28, 2017 by Vive_La_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 hour ago, M_Afro said: We need someone who has taken a big club and moved them forward. Someone used to the pressure of expectation. Someone used to working with highly paid egotistical footballers. I'm struggling to think who might fit that description, and who might want to come and work under our Keystone Cops Board. I'm also trying to recall when this was a reasonable aspiration for a club in our position, as opposed to our self-image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 Just now, Stevo985 said: I do kind of agree with you, but these are exactly the same conversations we were having right at the start of the season. "what will 2 games do". And then Bruce took us on an excellent run of form. So in isolation you're right, they prove nothing, but it may show the board that he's turning the bad form around and we're heading back to that good form we showed before. Again, I'm not saying I agree with that, just that we've been here before and he did turn it round. I get what you're saying but he hasn't really turned it round, it was a decent spell followed by a bad spell and once again we are moving away from the targets set for him. I can see him getting a few good results again, the squad is too good not to, but it has to be about the sort of consistency he can deliver. Either he's the right man or not. Unfortunately, i think the board probably believe he is 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted December 28, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Well that's where I don't agree. I think we are an average Championship team and our league place is justified. At the very least You can't get promoted without a striker that can score goals. We haven't even got that. Please do not mention Hogan because lets face it he's shit. Also where are these summer funds going to come from? No top manager would touch this shit with a barge pole. That's why we do the smart thing and try and identify potential rather than some proven steve bruce manager 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 28, 2017 Share Posted December 28, 2017 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: That's why we do the smart thing and try and identify potential rather than some proven steve bruce manager I agree. Any experienced manager that takes this job will most likely need the job more than we need them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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