Steve Bruce

[TRO]

1 hour ago, RotaxMax125 said:

I think it's the players but then I guess the manager and coaching staff should of picked up on this well before now. It consistently keeps happening. Wolves, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield Untited and now Brentford. The same will happen away at Boro on Saturday if this mentality continues. The games and months are slippping by. 

you are a brave man.

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Yes, and it begs the question.

If the coaches are crap, why do they manage decent games, sure it would be consistently good or consistently crap.

This lot of ours are Brittle.

Because we've spent a fortune and have some absolutely excellent individual players.

Bruce gives nothing. All he does is take away by setting the side up so negatively.

That's the main reason I want him gone. I think we'd be better with no manager than with this one.

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Yes, and it begs the question.

If the coaches are crap, why do they manage decent games, sure it would be consistently good or consistently crap.

This lot of ours are Brittle.

Yes, I agree. The little flurries of patient pass and move (like the 20 passes before out equaliser on Tuesday), is this the players rebelling against the orders of launching it, getting a knockdown and hoping the midfield catches up?

The long ball should be the final option, or if in danger. Not 5 mins into the game at 0-0.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Yes, I agree. The little flurries of patient pass and move (like the 20 passes before out equaliser on Tuesday), is this the players rebelling against the orders of launching it, getting a knockdown and hoping the midfield catches up?

The long ball should be the final option, or if in danger. Not 5 mins into the game at 0-0.

but has any player said, intimated, mooted or told a friend.....that that is whats been said to them....hoof it.

Is there an outside chance that they are just **** on the ball and frightened to death of the opposition closing them down and likely stealing the ball off them( which regularly happens), so just clear it anywhere......because so many do it, he hasn't got anyone else to replace them with......There is no centre forward with experience and midfielderss do not create space to receive......hence ,hoof.

His players, yes, perhaps he was expecting more from them

However,He is the manager and I accept it is all down to him.

[terrytini]

@TRO - I don’t think the Managers “ no good”.

I just think he has a way, it’s a negative way, it’s overly cautious, it neglects forward play, it encourages defensive mindsets.

And I think he coaches the bits he believes in/ knows about.

Another time, another place, another Club, he’d be fine.

For us, now, he’s a complete waste of everybody’s time.

[terrytini]

As for why it’s occassionally good - well, a stopped clock is right twice a day.

And those “ good” performances have in reality been pitifully few IMO.

[Junxs]

27 minutes ago, TRO said:

What confuses me is how they can play ok against some sides.......If it was a third parties failure like manager or coaches......surely they would be **** in EVERY game.

Have a look at who the teams we play OK against are. They are all mid to lower table.

Even most of those wins were turgid and could have gone either way.

Whenever we play a decent team we get our ass handed to us

[AvfcRigo82]

8 hours ago, Keyblade said:

They might seem average to us who have spent the last 24 out of the last 25 years in the PL, but those players would easily get into 90% of Championship sides. So yes, this is one of the best squads in the league from that perspective. Seriously, apart from Wolves, nobody is even touching the depth and (relative) quality of our team. 

Automaticpromotion challengers Cardiff's best player this season is perennial journeyman Junior Hoillet for example, and pound for pound they can't put out a starting XI that can match ours with all respect to them. And this is just Cardiff; the same applies to Bristol, Sheffield United etc etc. It's their managers who are doing exceptional jobs getting the most out if their players and getting them to be more than the sum of their parts. Whereas Steve Bruce is doing the complete opposite.

I feel like down playing the strength of our team is just another way to let Bruce off the hook. There is no excuse for being 8th in the table at the halfway point of the season.

Brilliant post.

I agree it is totally unexcusable given the money spent.

How long before the excuses are all fully exhausted for Bruce?

 

Edited December 28, 2017 by AvfcRigo82

[TheStagMan]

42 minutes ago, TRO said:

but has any player said, intimated, mooted or told a friend.....that that is whats been said to them....hoof it.

Is there an outside chance that they are just **** on the ball and frightened to death of the opposition closing them down and likely stealing the ball off them( which regularly happens), so just clear it anywhere......because so many do it, he hasn't got anyone else to replace them with......There is no centre forward with experience and midfielderss do not create space to receive......hence ,hoof.

His players, yes, perhaps he was expecting more from them

However,He is the manager and I accept it is all down to him.

No, because they weren't at their previous clubs - in fact they were quite good. 

[Eastie]

41 minutes ago, terrytini said:

@TRO - I don’t think the Managers “ no good”.

I just think he has a way, it’s a negative way, it’s overly cautious, it neglects forward play, it encourages defensive mindsets.

And I think he coaches the bits he believes in/ knows about.

Another time, another place, another Club, he’d be fine.

For us, now, he’s a complete waste of everybody’s time.

Noticeable he had Keith  bertschin with him in most previous  jobs  who was a striker - his backroom team here lacks a forward coach and it’s noticable in the style of play 

[Dave J]

Not sure about Keith Bertschin to be honest with you - he was a very poor footballer from what I recall from watching him play.

why not call on the likes of Deehan, Withe, Saunders, or even ask Brian to dig his boots out again - i’m Sure all of these could help out in some way ?

[Junxs]

29 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Have a look at who the teams we play OK against are. They are all mid to lower table.

Even most of those wins were turgid and could have gone either way.

Whenever we play a decent team we get our ass handed to us

Looking into this with a little more detail..

24 games played so far..

out of all those, these are the games we were comfortable in - Norwich 4-2, Preston 2-0, Barnsley 3-0 and Burton 4-0 

Thats 4 games where we have dominated properly. 4 out of 24. Its just not good enough.

[Vive_La_Villa]

Just to make it clear. Those that say they do not think the players are not good enough (including me) are not saying this to let Bruce off the hook. He is RESPONSIBLE for assembling this team so if anything it's another reason he should be sacked. 

Just do not expect massive improvement when/if he is sacked. It will take time to weed out and replace those not fighting for the cause as well as those who just no longer have the legs for it. 

[imavillan]

Having given the guy a chance on the basis we were picking up results I am now firmly in the out camp.

The football has been dire under Bruce, dire. We are only 3 points better off than this time last season. It is difficult to watch us play week in week out. We rarely take a game to the opposition, even when we win i dont feel excited, i'm happy that we've won but rarely do i get that real feeling of wow that was exciting.  If we do not take maximum points from the next 2 games (and i dont think we will) then i believe our season will be over and i fear we will not finish in the top 6.

There are plenty of good up and coming managers plying there trade in the leagues who would jump at the chance to manage Villa. I'd like to see somebody like Lee Johnson given a chance.

Like so many i'm just right p!$$ed by it all at the moment, the total lack of progress.

[Vive_La_Villa]

14 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

No, because they weren't at their previous clubs - in fact they were quite good. 

So by this you mean Hogan and Hourihane were good at their previous clubs? 

I don't think any of our other signings were exactly setting the world alight. 

[Eastie]

6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Just to make it clear. Those that say they do not think the players are not good enough (including me) are not saying this to let Bruce off the hook. He is RESPONSIBLE for assembling this team so if anything it's another reason he should be sacked. 

Just do not expect massive improvement when/if he is sacked. It will take time to weed out and replace those not fighting for the cause as well as those who just no longer have the legs for it. 

 Many occasions a change of manager gives a clean slate to players and sees an improvement in results - I don’t see sacking Bruce would necessarily mean things will not improve quickly - depends who we bring in , we have players who thrived elsewhere in a more attack minded style of football 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Eastie

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, Eastie said:

 Any occasions a change of manager gives a clean slate to players and sees an improvement in results - I don’t see sacking Bruce would necessarily mean things will not improve quickly - depends who we bring in , we have players who thrived elsewhere in a more attack minded style of football 

It's possible. It's just not a guarantee as some seem to imply. 

As for the players that thrived you mean Hogan and Hourihane right? 

Hogan just struts around looking anonymous and uninterested. Hourihane no longer has the luxury and space that was given to him whilst a Barnsley midfield.  He now has to try and break down a team set up to defend and struggles to do this more often then not. 

Average players. Shit manager. 

[DCJonah]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

It's possible. It's just not a guarantee as some seem to imply.

As for the players that thrived you mean Hogan and Hourihane right? 

Hogan just struts around looking anonymous and uninterested. Hourihane no longer has the luxury and space that was given to him whilst a Barnsley midfield.  He now has to try and break down a team set up to defend and struggles to do this more often then not. 

Average players. Shit manager. 

Where are these posts that guarantee everything will be better once he is gone?

[Villarocker]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

They also need motivation just like they need coaching.

The better players are self motivated to a large degree, but other with fragile belief do.

What confuses me is how they can play ok against some sides.......If it was a third parties failure like manager or coaches......surely they would be **** in EVERY game.

Look, Terry you and all the others could be right....Manager no good.....I just think there are more questions than answers.

However, I do get the impression and its only and impression ,because I don't know......There is no one on one coaching like Pepe does to improve individuals.....well its not working if there is.

I still have empathy with the line that many of the players are overrated.

I tell you what mate, I fear for us if you are right. Basically, if it is mainly down to the players not being good enough, not trying hard enough and, they cannot get that managed into them, then we are royally f?*%£d.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Where are these posts that guarantee everything will be better once he is gone?

Haha I waiting for that. 

I'll rephrase that paragraph so we don't have to go through this again.

'It's possible. I just think it's unlikely'.