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Steve Bruce


Demitri_C
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1 minute ago, alreadyexists said:

Bruce hasn't played anyone yet, he's not picked a single starting eleven... or even been announced yet! Maybe give him a bit more of a chance.

Why? Serious question but why? It is not as if he is an unknown quantity .  We've all been told about his 15 year,  4 promotion record. We have all witnessed his teams ,  his approach,  seen him heard him.  We know all about him.  Surely we can pass comment on his suitability,  or our opinion of his suitability for manager of Aston Villa without having to see any more evidence?  For me this is not innocent until proven guilty,  this is guilty until you've proved other wise!! And I know how that comes across and I know people will quote that and say how wrong I am and what a bad person etc for saying it.  Well tough but when you come with a reputation then you're going to be judged.

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2 minutes ago, BOF said:

I was of the opinion that Bruce would get us up and that maybe after that you go looking for someone to push us on.   But actually, why can't Bruce push us on?  As has been said by others on here, he has progressed every club he has been with.  I'd proffer that those other clubs had a ceiling, and he reached that ceiling with them.  He has done nothing to suggest he can't bring us to where we want to go.  Now we can have our presumptions and prejudices.  Our doubts and concerns.  But if we try to stand back from those and be objective about what he has done so far, I don't think you can put a cogent argument that promotion is the limit of his abilities and that he'll be some kind of dinosaur in the Premier League.  He never was before.  So let's see what he can do, and let's not sit waiting for failure, because you never know, we might be about to be very good and surely that's something to wish for.

You are Krulak and I claim my £5.  Imagine what he could do with a club that backs him comments those Brian

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2 minutes ago, Richard said:

Imagine what he could do with a club that backs him comments those Brian

Well why not?  We're the biggest club he has ever managed.  He's about to be backed like never before.  He has done well basically everywhere else.  I see nothing to suggest he can't replicate here on a larger scale what he has done in previous jobs.  Let's try and enjoy the ride :)

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1 minute ago, Richard said:

Why? Serious question but why? It is not as if he is an unknown quantity .  We've all been told about his 15 year,  4 promotion record. We have all witnessed his teams ,  his approach,  seen him heard him.  We know all about him.  Surely we can pass comment on his suitability,  or our opinion of his suitability for manager of Aston Villa without having to see any more evidence?  For me this is not innocent until proven guilty,  this is guilty until you've proved other wise!! And I know how that comes across and I know people will quote that and say how wrong I am and what a bad person etc for saying it.  Well tough but when you come with a reputation then you're going to be judged.

I don't think you're a bad person Richard, we just differ in opinions, but I fully respect your right to that opinion.

What I meant was Bruce is already 'guilty' of not getting us promoted, signing his son, making bad signings for us in the transfer windows, then if he does get us back he won't succeed there either. It's like people have crystal balls... I wish I had that amount of certainly over the future. The past can only help us guess the future, but we can never know it until it happens. Otherwise, what's the point? 

I just think it would probably be best for the team, and everyone really, if we give Steve Bruce a chance. I'm not saying we all need to say he's brilliant, or even that I think he'll succeed. I certainly hope he does though. 

Nothing personal Richard, just what I think, but I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind :)

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41 minutes ago, Richard said:

No I think Dyche would have been the better appointment.

Look I support Aston Villa.  Not one or two individuals at the club,  but the club.  It will be here long after the latest manager has gone in 12 months.

I think Steve Bruce is wrong for the club on many levels

Ive seen people wave his four promotions at me. Benitez has none,  would no body want him? So promotion history is a false narrative.  I've seen people say we need to get back to basics,  is he the only one capable of that?  Some manager if so.

Ive seen the argument by those people actually wanting him that it is our medicine or we dont want this just that we have to do it,  or that we can get rid of him after 12 months when he has got us up. Hardly ringing endorsements those.  Personally I doubt he'll get us up in 12 months anyway!  It really is short term and that will kill the club.

Ive seen that getting up is the hardest step in our progress but to be honest I do not accept that at all.  I do not think we will get promoted this season,  I never did.  But I do think we would have been promoted in a couple of years.  If teams like Bournemouth, Burnley,  Watford can get promoted I am sure we could.  The biggest step is then making us one of the top 5 clubs in the world in 5 years as the owner stated!. But seriously the biggest step would be then to establish us in the premier league again and for that we need someone to stay with us,  to grow with us ,  to buy into us and for whom we can also buy into.  Not chop and change again.  We have all joked that we have had more managers in the last 12 months than wins,  I dont think a short term appointment is the way to fix that.

However,  if we accept that getting up is the hardest step,  then how is it possible that a manager able to do that is not then able to kick on? I believe people are only saying that it is the hardest step and he will be gone after that as a means to accepting the appointment,  even they do not want him.

I believe his tactics,  his style of play are awful and we will need to once more start again after he has gone.  Not only am i pig sick of starting again but I do not believe we have the unlimited funds to be able to do that. I do not like his transfer record,  I believe he will not get the best out of our better players and I believe some of them will leave which will be detrimental to us.  I further believe we will have another bomb squad.   Basically I do not trust him to build a squad. For me he is on a downward trajectory,  but i guess so are the club.

Then we have the other issue for me.  look at the debate over Bruce.  It is like Brexit and the potential implications are just as divisive for us.

Last year we had one of the worst years in our history,  certainly in my time supporting the club the worst. The team was crap,  the relations between fans and team,  team and management, management and owners,  owners and fans,  everything was poison really awful atmosphere.  For me this was the hardest thing to put right.  We had a new owner who started to correct this,  and saw it I believe as the major blocker to success.  He still had a lot of goodwill despite some gripes from fans and generally was trying to improve things.  Yes there are still a few things to clear out at the club but we had made good progress on that front at least. This one appointment at one stroke has risked that and risked putting us back at least 12 months.  Given that he is less popular than almost any other manager we have recruited in the last 20 years he and the club is now under huge pressure ,  it is pressure that could have been avoided.  Losing a few games and the atmosphere will return to last season it is such an unwise appointment for that reason alone.

I have been a fan of this club for over 40 years.  lucky enough to have seen us win the league when that was about graft not cash.  Spent a glorious evening in Rotterdam,  seen us win cups,  been to wembley and walsall but There have been that many poor decisions about this club over the last few years,  so many things happen Ive said "NOOOOO" to and thought that is obviously wrong that I am now feeling less connected to the club than I have been over those last 40+ years.  The appointment of Steve Bruce has not made that better.

 

Well, lets wait and see Richard.....because none of us have a crystal ball.

There are far more fans happy with this signing than not and hey! we could all be wrong and you right.

as you touched on ..I was in Rotterdam too and I also remember the teasing Ron Saunders got for his line, 110 % work rate.....for which that reputation preceded him.

The purists of the day wanted us to be like Ipswich and Liverpool......both teams we beat 5-1 with Ron's ( work Rate)

We have tried them all....foreign sexy- up and coming- foreign champions league winner - ......There is no Guarantee and your shout is no more nailed on than mine.

The atmosphere will be shite through losing.....that will be the same whoever comes in.

you say, any manager can get the basics right....can they?, can they really?, so why haven't they done it?.....because they haven't and its clear to see that.

as one poster so eloquently wrote its not an "interior designer" we want.....its a " Builder" pardon the pun.....absolutely spot on analogy IMO

These fancy dan managers with their sophisticated theories on the " modern game"  ain't going to dig us out of this dog shit....thats my honest view

....just like the 110 % work rate derisory reactions in 1982 ploughed us through Europe beating some of the aristocrats along the way.

Sit back and take the ride Richard, you may be pleasantly surprised and I hope you have the humility to come on here and say so if he succeeds.....If he doesn't succeed, I will come on here and say I got it wrong in my assumption.

Edited by TRO
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I'm completely indifferent. 

I think I know what to expect.  I think I know what his limitations are.  I think I know what will happen should we go up this season.  I think I know what will happen if we don't.

I can't affect anything about the decision made, so I may as well look on the bright side and say "I imagine at least we'll be organised and hard to beat - if not a little unspectacular".

It would be a start just winning a couple on the bounce :) 

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2 minutes ago, BOF said:

Well why not?  We're the biggest club he has ever managed.  He's about to be backed like never before.  He has done well basically everywhere else.  I see nothing to suggest he can't replicate here on a larger scale what he has done in previous jobs.  Let's try and enjoy the ride :)

He was backed heavily at Sunderland and brought them backwards and signed duds with big fees and wages in Gyan, Cana, Cattermole, O'Shea, Turner, Wickham, Gardner, Brown

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1 minute ago, BOF said:

Well why not?  We're the biggest club he has ever managed.  He's about to be backed like never before.  He has done well basically everywhere else.  I see nothing to suggest he can't replicate here on a larger scale what he has done in previous jobs.  Let's try and enjoy the ride :)

Think that’s right, could easily get us back to PL mid-table - don’t see much between him and an Alan Pardew or Mark Hughes.  Becoming a mid-table premier league team again would be a fantastic achievement from where we are sitting  now and there is no reason he couldn’t do that.  He's done it before at lesser clubs with lesser budgets that is indisputable.  Think we are all trying to judge and bracket him too quickly - lets see how he performs and take it from there.

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4 minutes ago, Zatman said:

He was backed heavily at Sunderland and brought them backwards and signed duds with big fees and wages in Gyan, Cana, Cattermole, O'Shea, Turner, Wickham, Gardner, Brown

Yes but then went on to get a average Hull side promoted so I dont really care what happened at Sunderland. His more recent history, in my opinion is more important! 

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20 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I was speaking of his UK career..

Can you remind me what he achieved at Spurs and Chelsea?

He's got the best win ratio of any manager Spurs have had since World War II and set a Premier League record points haul of 72 points for them (first club not to achieve CL football with such a total).  Was also apparently the first Spurs manager to win at Old Trafford for 23 years.

But yeah, he's shit.  :rolleyes:

 

Anyway, Steve Bruce...

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Just now, Demitri_C said:

Yes but then went on to get a average Hull side promoted so I dont really care what happened at Sunderland. His more recent history, in my opinion is more important! 

eh with the budget he is about to receive I would compare that to his Sunderland days

yes he got an average Hull side promoted yet spent their record budget in Premier League and got them relegated. who made them average :detect:

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