Steve Bruce

[jacketspuds]

Looking at the likes of Leeds, Ipswich, Cardiff and Wolves there is no way we are going up this season. Yes we may have the most experienced squad but some have gone backwards since last season and we've got players like Hogan who we've spent £14m on and Bruce can't find a way to use them. He should go.

[Eastie]

58 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

Looking at the likes of Leeds, Ipswich, Cardiff and Wolves there is no way we are going up this season. Yes we may have the most experienced squad but some have gone backwards since last season and we've got players like Hogan who we've spent £14m on and Bruce can't find a way to use them. He should go.

Not worried about Ipswich or Cardiff - Leeds and wolves won't be far off though - the worry is if we make the change in the next international break we could be on far adrift like last season .

september is unquestionably shit or bust for Bruce and to be fair he's lucky to see September as xia would have been within his rights to get rid now ! 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Eastie

[Reivax_Villa]

Well it looks like Xia is already looking at his next options

 

Edited August 26, 2017 by Reivax_Villa

[TRO]

10 hours ago, terrytini said:

Fear of the unknown is no reason to avoid it.

I think its every reason to avoid it.

[a m ole]

1 hour ago, Reivax_Villa said:

Well it looks like Xia is already looking at his next options

 

the balls on Tony 

[srsmithusa]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think its every reason to avoid it.

I think it's the most common reason to avoid it.  And sometimes a very good reason to avoid it.  Sometimes a really bad reason.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

9 minutes ago, a m ole said:

the balls on Tony 

As I said in his thread, I think he is proper learning and studying football himself, as to not be taken for a mug in the future.

He will start being more proactive I feel.

[skarroki]

7 hours ago, Junxs said:

Hold up.. OK 3 of those points were against Rotherham, but Bristol City was one of those games - then you had 3 teams all in or around the play offs, Hudderfield, Sheffield W and Derby.

I'd say thats a tougher run of fixtures than Bruce's first 5. Then you have consider Bruce has had far more time with the squad than RDM had, and RDMs team was still getting to know one another. yet they both had 5 points after 5 games. 

Bruce will not get in the top 10 let alone the play offs, best to change now - people were saying RDM was given too long so lets not make the same mistake again.

RDM had less time with the squad, yeah I'll accept that. He also showed nothing in his first five games to suggest things were going to improve in the following five. And he built a pretty poor squad of players. 

With Bruce it's a different story in my opinion. The team is starting to look like they know how to grind out results and play a bit of football. He's got a proven track record and so has the team he's built. It makes financial, business and footballing sense to give him time as there is a good chance it'll work out. 

As for whoever it was who suggested that Norwich are equivalent to Rotherham, not even worth discussing that as you're clearly off your rocker and blinded by your determination that Bruce has fluked his way through decades of successful management. 

Our first 5 games we've played high flying Cardiff, Reading who are strong again and have a settled squad, Hull who are looking good and have a well regarded manager and Bristol are a year further along in their long term plans. I don't think the games Bruce has had are easier than Di Matteo and I think it's easy to argue they're harder. 

[TheStagMan]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I think its every reason to avoid it.

See, one of my nieces thought this about her abusive, scumbag boyfriend. She wouldn't leave him because she was scared of being alone. It took a major event happening (him attacking her sister) for her to see the light and to leave him and now she couldn't be happier and is flourishing. 

Wonder what our major event will be to finally see the light and get rid of Bruce?

Frankly at this point a cat in a suit could get better performances and results out of this group of players.

[Villarocker]

@TRO what did you make of the way Bruce lined us up for the first half at Bristol City? Surely you must have been as baffled as everyone else at that selection and formation? 

You must surely agree that, quite often now, Bruce has set himself up to be a target for criticism from the fans?

[TheStagMan]

9 minutes ago, skarroki said:

RDM had less time with the squad, yeah I'll accept that. He also showed nothing in his first five games to suggest things were going to improve in the following five. And he built a pretty poor squad of players. 

With Bruce it's a different story in my opinion. The team is starting to look like they know how to grind out results and play a bit of football. He's got a proven track record and so has the team he's built. It makes financial, business and footballing sense to give him time as there is a good chance it'll work out. 

As for whoever it was who suggested that Norwich are equivalent to Rotherham, not even worth discussing that as you're clearly off your rocker and blinded by your determination that Bruce has fluked his way through decades of successful management. 

Our first 5 games we've played high flying Cardiff, Reading who are strong again and have a settled squad, Hull who are looking good and have a well regarded manager and Bristol are a year further along in their long term plans. I don't think the games Bruce has had are easier than Di Matteo and I think it's easy to argue they're harder. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

14 minutes ago, skarroki said:

RDM had less time with the squad, yeah I'll accept that. He also showed nothing in his first five games to suggest things were going to improve in the following five. And he built a pretty poor squad of players. 

With Bruce it's a different story in my opinion. The team is starting to look like they know how to grind out results and play a bit of football. He's got a proven track record and so has the team he's built. It makes financial, business and footballing sense to give him time as there is a good chance it'll work out. 

As for whoever it was who suggested that Norwich are equivalent to Rotherham, not even worth discussing that as you're clearly off your rocker and blinded by your determination that Bruce has fluked his way through decades of successful management. 

Our first 5 games we've played high flying Cardiff, Reading who are strong again and have a settled squad, Hull who are looking good and have a well regarded manager and Bristol are a year further along in their long term plans. I don't think the games Bruce has had are easier than Di Matteo and I think it's easy to argue they're harder. 

I disagree with this to be honest, we were genuinely unlucky to lose, or draw alot of those games. We were all out attack for alot of them too.

I actually think the main reason he was sacked is because we wanted to get up THAT year and we were dropping too many points.

I still think RDM would be doing better with the squad we currently have, as unpopular as that view is.

[Kiwivillan]

45 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

 

I still think RDM would be doing better with the squad we currently have, as unpopular as that view is.

I've said the same in a previous post

[The Fun Factory]

4 hours ago, jacketspuds said:

Looking at the likes of Leeds, Ipswich, Cardiff and Wolves there is no way we are going up this season. Yes we may have the most experienced squad but some have gone backwards since last season and we've got players like Hogan who we've spent £14m on and Bruce can't find a way to use them. He should go.

We have played 5 games. Hogan scored 2 in midweek.  I think we should wait and see in the next few games. I am hopeful we might start to click. 

Edited August 26, 2017 by The Fun Factory

[villan_007]

11 hours ago, M_Afro said:

That does not wash I'm afraid. We were in the premier league with a vastly inferior team. We are now in the championship with players that the other clubs can only dream of. Back Bruce all the way if you wish and ignore what you actually see. I want Bruce to do well because that means that we will do well. It is his negativity that is killing us not some rubbish about how we were bad 5 years ago!

It should wash. You should bathe in it. It's not rubbish from 5 yrs ago, its facts from last season, the season before and so on. Its a deep seeded problem.

It also shows a pattern of decline. A pattern of constant change. A pattern of a new manager every season trying to implement their way. How is any club supposed to recover from that?

I did back bruce. I thought he'd get us up last yr. I wanted him to have a preseason. The first half at hull I thought justified that. Then the second half and the two following games I had my head in my hands. However what I actually did see was a response, two good performances, goals and team that finally seems to be clicking. Friday night I thought was another sign of resilience, stopping the rot away. We could have nicked it. We had a bit of fight about us to not lose.

The facts are we've been one of the poorest teams in the country for a long time. I feel with the group we have, we're very much on the right track to rectifying that.

I dont see anyone who could come in and change it. Anyone that would guarantee promotion, and anyone who isnt going to want more time and more players.

[skarroki]

1 hour ago, TheStagMan said:

See, one of my nieces thought this about her abusive, scumbag boyfriend. She wouldn't leave him because she was scared of being alone. It took a major event happening (him attacking her sister) for her to see the light and to leave him and now she couldn't be happier and is flourishing. 

Wonder what our major event will be to finally see the light and get rid of Bruce?

Frankly at this point a cat in a suit could get better performances and results out of this group of players.

(To clarify I am not linking what I am saying here to your niece, I'm sorry to hear about what she went through and hope she's in a better place now)

I'd say a better relationship analogy is someone who has been getting through boyfriends a lot over a long period of time and always goes on about what bad luck they have with boyfriends (managers) and when is their luck going to change. 

You start to wonder whether it genuinely is her bad luck, or whether the girl has become used to the idea that every guy isn't good enough for her, so when she finally gets a good egg she doesn't hang around long enough to see if it's just a spell of it not being rosey whilst they're getting to know each other.  

I've come to think over the last few days that as a Villa fan I've become used to the concept of having a useless manager in charge of the team that I disect and analyse every performance based on how it is linked to the management of the team rather than isolating the issues and wondering how much control Bruce really has over some of the variables of our bad form. I think a lot of us associate "Villa manager" with "Not good enough" and all evidence pointing towards that theory is amplified, all evidence to the contrary isn't important. 

Every person I know who is really into their football laughs off my suggestions we'd be better off replacing Bruce and any former player or manager discussing Villa in the media are happy to put their back on the line by rubbishing the idea that he should go. I fluctuate a lot on the issue and feel as though most of us on this site are so heavily involved in every tiny news story Villa related that it's difficult to step back and take in the bigger picture of this season as a whole.  

 

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, skarroki said:

RDM had less time with the squad, yeah I'll accept that. He also showed nothing in his first five games to suggest things were going to improve in the following five. And he built a pretty poor squad of players. 

With Bruce it's a different story in my opinion. The team is starting to look like they know how to grind out results and play a bit of football. He's got a proven track record and so has the team he's built. It makes financial, business and footballing sense to give him time as there is a good chance it'll work out. 

As for whoever it was who suggested that Norwich are equivalent to Rotherham, not even worth discussing that as you're clearly off your rocker and blinded by your determination that Bruce has fluked his way through decades of successful management. 

Our first 5 games we've played high flying Cardiff, Reading who are strong again and have a settled squad, Hull who are looking good and have a well regarded manager and Bristol are a year further along in their long term plans. I don't think the games Bruce has had are easier than Di Matteo and I think it's easy to argue they're harder. 

Someone didn't watch them.

[srsmithusa]

3 hours ago, skarroki said:

(To clarify I am not linking what I am saying here to your niece, I'm sorry to hear about what she went through and hope she's in a better place now)

I'd say a better relationship analogy is someone who has been getting through boyfriends a lot over a long period of time and always goes on about what bad luck they have with boyfriends (managers) and when is their luck going to change. 

You start to wonder whether it genuinely is her bad luck, or whether the girl has become used to the idea that every guy isn't good enough for her, so when she finally gets a good egg she doesn't hang around long enough to see if it's just a spell of it not being rosey whilst they're getting to know each other.  

I've come to think over the last few days that as a Villa fan I've become used to the concept of having a useless manager in charge of the team that I disect and analyse every performance based on how it is linked to the management of the team rather than isolating the issues and wondering how much control Bruce really has over some of the variables of our bad form. I think a lot of us associate "Villa manager" with "Not good enough" and all evidence pointing towards that theory is amplified, all evidence to the contrary isn't important. 

Every person I know who is really into their football laughs off my suggestions we'd be better off replacing Bruce and any former player or manager discussing Villa in the media are happy to put their back on the line by rubbishing the idea that he should go. I fluctuate a lot on the issue and feel as though most of us on this site are so heavily involved in every tiny news story Villa related that it's difficult to step back and take in the bigger picture of this season as a whole.  

 

You need more intelligent friends.  

And your analogy is missing an important point.  A girl that dates a series of losers does not need to lower her standards, she needs to do a better job of picking her next boyfriend !   

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, srsmithusa said:

You need more intelligent friends.  

And your analogy is missing an important point.  A girl that dates a series of losers does not need to lower her standards, she needs to do a better job of picking her next boyfriend !   

That analogy is spot on. It's not the firing of managers that's the problem, it's the hiring of poor ones that's the problem. We've not been sacking managers for the sake of it. If we find a good one, the biggest problem we will have is holding on to him. 

As for new managers wanting new players every time, that's to do with the nature of the manager we've been hiring. They've been buying journeymen players, or players who are at the end of their careers, who have no affinity with either the club or the manager. Most of the teams, who in recent years have been promoted, have done so largely with unknown players outside their own clubs. However as a group of players they've grown together and formed a very strong team and a culture that is embedded in the club. 

Yes we all want promotion asap, but quick fixes rarely work and yes I would agree a manager needs time to fix the years of decline. But it has to be a manager with a plan for the long term who has a vision of what can be created. Of course the short and medium terms can't just be ignored, but I think most people would give time to a manager who showed progress as he built an exciting and effective team. One half against Hull, beating a clearly off form Norwich and a League Cup win against 3rd division opponents after almost a year in the job, during which we've played truly awful, negative and boring football, ain't progress and ain't fixing anything. 

[Eastie]

8 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I disagree with this to be honest, we were genuinely unlucky to lose, or draw alot of those games. We were all out attack for alot of them too.

I actually think the main reason he was sacked is because we wanted to get up THAT year and we were dropping too many points.

I still think RDM would be doing better with the squad we currently have, as unpopular as that view is.

I agree RDM had a tougher 5 game start and to be fair we were unlucky not to beat Derby and Huddersfield and deserved a draw at Hillsboro - we played much better football under RDM but I also feel he had to go as it's a results business - for the same reason Bruce should be long gone by now but I have no doubt if he doesn't have a good September then the axe will fall and I'd think he knows that himself too.