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Steve Bruce


Demitri_C

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Got a feeling we have something up our sleeve still. Elmo and Wheelan are bargain buys. We had 1-2 million to spend. We sell Veretout and Elphick for close to 8-10 million. 

I think we will end up with an attacking midfielder. Possibly Tom Lawrence.. rumoured for 7-8 million. 

 

--------------------------------Johnstone--------------------------

Elmohamady--------Terry-------Chester---------Taylor

----------------------Wheelan------Hourihane-------------------

------Adomah-----------Lawrence-----------Grealish------

----------------------------------Kodjia-------------------------------

If we had started this side.. or you could tinker with Jedinak/Lansbury where Hourihane is.. depending on the opposition. Or even add Lansbury/Hourihane to the front midfield three.

 

--------------------------------Johnstone--------------------------

Elmohamady--------Terry-------Chester---------Taylor

----------------------Wheelan------Jedinak-------------------

------Hourihane---------Lansbury -------Lawrence-----

--------------------------------Kodjia-------------------------------

 

--------------------------------Johnstone--------------------------

Elmohamady--------Terry-------Chester---------Taylor

----------------------Wheelan------Jedinak-------------------

------Hogan---------McCormack -------Lawrence-----

--------------------------------Kodjia-------------------------------

 

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8 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

I know it's gotten into 'rabbit hole' territory for a few but the point about needing a DM like Jedinak/Whelan/Lyden along with a decent backline isn't so that it therefore, singlehandedly changes "Bruce's tactics from ultra defensive to being more offensive". But surely the theory is sound that if those 5 can provide a solid platform we'll be giving the offensive 5 a better chance. Full backs and DM always making themselves available for the ball and the rest left to play triangles further up the pitch. Seeing as Kodjia and Adomah were our only real performers in that area last season as well as us scoring so few goals as a team it's obvious where we need to improve. But to ignore the fact that an injury to Jedinak or Baker last year stopped us having any sort of base to play from highlighted how unbalanced this squad was. That Jedinak and Lyden were both injured at the same time last year led to round pegs in square holes imo. In a squad with about 8 central midfielders too. Tish, Gardner, Bacuna, Lansbury, Hourihane or Bjarnason just aren't that player imho.

The idea that people are suggesting Whelan will make Green and Grealish turn promise into performance, Lansbury, Bjarnason and Hourihane to start racking up goals and assists, McCormack and Hogan to start finding the net and start justifying those mammouth fees and getting all of them to pass and move in some sort of coherent manner is disingenuous to the actual point being made though. Not having Lansbury/Hourihane constantly coming back into our own half to get the ball or asking Jedinak to play through injuries is more the idea.

As for Lyden and any and all youngsters at any club anywhere,  if they are good enough, they'll play. If Jedinak and Whelan are as bad as some seem to think and Lyden is as good as you rate him he'll walk into this team and make the position his own without a bother in the world. So happy days.

We've had the pleasure in recent years of watching people like Yorke, Barry and Delph actually improve here from the 'rough around the edges' youngsters that arrived into the players they became. We saw Petrov reinvent himself as a holding player. We've also watched many a Delfouneso or Gardner just stagnating. Young players with promise - especially from the academy - are already cut a lot of slack. Look at Grealish for example (and I like that), but the idea is when/if the chance comes, you make yourself undroppable. Green isn't there yet, but he's getting there and we lack someone as direct as him. I don't want to put any pressures on him but he could well be our new Tony Daley. And I loved Tony Daley me. But I've no problem heading into this season with him and Grealish fighting for that left wing role and from what we've all seen so far I think a fair few people, me included, want him to start down the left. It is only because his performances on the pitch for us have earned him that in my eyes though.

I hope you're right about Lyden. I've not seen much of him, but who doesn't want a combative midfielder with energy who can pass the ball?

Really good post mate. An enjoyable read.

I think the point that I and others are making is that even when Jedinak did return from injury those more offensive players still struggled to create or score goals. With the added protection from Jedinak back from injury Bruce still seemingly set the team up in a defensive manner relying on Kodjia to nick a goal and then trying to defend that. Imo that setup isn't going to get you automatic promotion when you factor in the human capacity to make mistakes.

If you take how Newcastle played in the Championship as an example last season. Rafa generally seen as a defensive manager did however show very little respect to Championship teams with a squad not much better than Villa's. He had Championship teams on the back foot from the off and went for the throat. They will be playing in the Premiership next season.

Bruce however lost the initiative from the start against Championship teams by paying them too much respect and sitting back.He lost the aura of AVFC by doing that and Championship teams quickly gained confidence in playing Villa. Some of those teams couldn't believe their luck how much respect Bruce was paying them. Villa are still in the Championship.

I think the problem lies more with Bruce's system of play with or without a much lorded DM but there can be no more excuses if Villa's performances and results don't improve.

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8 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

I know it's gotten into 'rabbit hole' territory for a few but the point about needing a DM like Jedinak/Whelan/Lyden along with a decent backline isn't so that it therefore, singlehandedly changes "Bruce's tactics from ultra defensive to being more offensive". But surely the theory is sound that if those 5 can provide a solid platform we'll be giving the offensive 5 a better chance. Full backs and DM always making themselves available for the ball and the rest left to play triangles further up the pitch. Seeing as Kodjia and Adomah were our only real performers in that area last season as well as us scoring so few goals as a team it's obvious where we need to improve. But to ignore the fact that an injury to Jedinak or Baker last year stopped us having any sort of base to play from highlighted how unbalanced this squad was. That Jedinak and Lyden were both injured at the same time last year led to round pegs in square holes imo. In a squad with about 8 central midfielders too. Tish, Gardner, Bacuna, Lansbury, Hourihane or Bjarnason just aren't that player imho.

The idea that people are suggesting Whelan will make Green and Grealish turn promise into performance, Lansbury, Bjarnason and Hourihane to start racking up goals and assists, McCormack and Hogan to start finding the net and start justifying those mammouth fees and getting all of them to pass and move in some sort of coherent manner is disingenuous to the actual point being made though. Not having Lansbury/Hourihane constantly coming back into our own half to get the ball or asking Jedinak to play through injuries is more the idea.

As for Lyden and any and all youngsters at any club anywhere,  if they are good enough, they'll play. If Jedinak and Whelan are as bad as some seem to think and Lyden is as good as you rate him he'll walk into this team and make the position his own without a bother in the world. So happy days.

We've had the pleasure in recent years of watching people like Yorke, Barry and Delph actually improve here from the 'rough around the edges' youngsters that arrived into the players they became. We saw Petrov reinvent himself as a holding player. We've also watched many a Delfouneso or Gardner just stagnating. Young players with promise - especially from the academy - are already cut a lot of slack. Look at Grealish for example (and I like that), but the idea is when/if the chance comes, you make yourself undroppable. Green isn't there yet, but he's getting there and we lack someone as direct as him. I don't want to put any pressures on him but he could well be our new Tony Daley. And I loved Tony Daley me. But I've no problem heading into this season with him and Grealish fighting for that left wing role and from what we've all seen so far I think a fair few people, me included, want him to start down the left. It is only because his performances on the pitch for us have earned him that in my eyes though.

I hope you're right about Lyden. I've not seen much of him, but who doesn't want a combative midfielder with energy who can pass the ball?

I think that is a really good post and points i agree with.....I don't think Glenn Whelan will suddenly turn those offensive players in to something else but this is what i am expecting....

if you lose the ball as regularly as we do, there is a natural tendency to retreat.....to compound that problem if there is no natural ball winner in the side to win it back ,anxiety develops in the offensive players, they become even more nervous of losing it, it becomes a vicious circle and they lose it more.....the opposition soon become aware and exploit it.

This is not and was never meant to be an exciting signing.....its the knock on effect to the team that i am expecting to be exciting.

i say this respectfully.....i am not sure all fans fully appreciate the roll of a dynamic DM and what effect they have on team balance.I am clear you do.

If I am wrong....then i don't know what to think.

 

 

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On 7/18/2017 at 20:50, Dave J said:

With the amount of money and games at his disposal - he should have made the play - offs  as a minimum imo

Play offs as a minimum?

Are you implying he should have got automatic promotion from when he took over?

Do you realise what a monumental achievement that would have been?

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36 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Play offs as a minimum?

Are you implying he should have got automatic promotion from when he took over?

Do you realise what a monumental achievement that would have been?

Well, with his impressive record of four promotions and his extensive knowledge of this league it should have been a walk in the park for him.

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15 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

Well, with his impressive record of four promotions and his extensive knowledge of this league it should have been a walk in the park for him.

He should have taken a team with four wins in 50 with an active midfield of the likes of Westwood, Gardner and Bacuna, who had one one game the whole season against the by-far-worst team in the league, who had been one of the bigger disasters in the entire planet directly into the playoffs minimum? I had hope he could turn it around, but perspective may suggest it was a big job from the off. 

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2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

My main concern with this team bruce has created is the complete lack of pace, we are already slow at getting the ball forward so this is a concern for me

Same for me.

Both on and off the ball.

I still suspect we will add Crouch or a similar type target man to the roster making us the slowest team of all times.

Maybe there is some new turn based rule in the Championship that I've missed?

Edited by sne
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14 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

I hope you're right about Lyden. I've not seen much of him, but who doesn't want a combative midfielder with energy who can pass the ball?

I enjoyed your post. I think a young player like Lyden will benefit greatly from playing alongside someone like Whelan in midfield and having Terry behind him.
Both coaching him, telling him where to be etc. That's what young players need when they come into the side. Our youth players have been woefully let down over the last few years by not having any leadership around them on the pitch.

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2 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Well, with his impressive record of four promotions and his extensive knowledge of this league it should have been a walk in the park for him.

I'd say it was an almost impossible task, purely based on the number of points he'd have had to have gained form where we were.

We had 10 points when he took over with 36 games left.

To get automatically promoted we'd have needed 94 points.

 

That's 84 points from 36 games, or 2.33 points per game. Which over a course of a season would give you 107 points.

 

I know you were being sarcastic, but anyone suggesting Bruce SHOULD have gotten automatic promotion last season is out of their minds.

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6 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

My main concern with this team bruce has created is the complete lack of pace, we are already slow at getting the ball forward so this is a concern for me

Having pace in the team and moving the ball forward quickly are separate things imo. 

Pace to move the ball on the counter, yes because the players have to able to switch quickly from defence to attack and cover a lot of ground. The pace we had in O'Neils team made it work for us, although we'd hit a glass ceiling in terms of breaking teams down when in controlled possession, which is exactly where this team is now. I don't think we'll be counter attacking much, a lot of teams are going to sit off us and defend deep. 

It's about getting the right balance in midfield and getting players 'in between the lines' as they say. We've got the footballers to counter the lack of pace, we just need to get them playing. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Play offs as a minimum?

Are you implying he should have got automatic promotion from when he took over?

Do you realise what a monumental achievement that would have been?

Oh I fully understand Stevo don't you worry about this - he had more than enough time, games & resources at his disposal to have got promotion - do I need to remind you of that dreadful January - you know who and all that nonsense - that's where he really lost it in my view, and for someone with his experience - again in my opinion that's not acceptable 

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cant be the only one worried about the age of players he has signed. 4 permanent players all in 30s this season(Elmo is in September I think) and probably past there prime

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10 hours ago, TRO said:

dynamic

This is a very important quality and one which I believe has been totally lacking for a good while. Obviously in midfield it is very important but also in all areas of the pitch. I think you could make a claim for Kodjia having some dynamic qualities but generally the team are a pretty placid bunch. 

If Whelan can bring this to the team and encourage it in others, then he could make a huge difference. However a cautionary note, we now have a squad full of players who should have been bringing many qualities to the team and up to this point, on the whole, they haven't delivered. So let's hope that we don't manage to eradicate the dynamism out of Whelan, as quickly as we mislaid the various qualities that most of the rest of the squad had before they joined us.

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1 hour ago, Dave J said:

Oh I fully understand Stevo don't you worry about this - he had more than enough time, games & resources at his disposal to have got promotion - do I need to remind you of that dreadful January - you know who and all that nonsense - that's where he really lost it in my view, and for someone with his experience - again in my opinion that's not acceptable 

Promotion, fine. I don't agree, but I can accept you feel like he should have got promoted. I assume you mean via the playoffs.

Your OP implied that you think he should have got AUTOMATIC promotion. Which is ludicrous.

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8 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

My main concern with this team bruce has created is the complete lack of pace, we are already slow at getting the ball forward so this is a concern for me

You're concerned now, wait until you see Jedinak and whelan in midfield in front of Terry and samba. *shudder*

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5 minutes ago, villa89 said:

You're concerned now, wait until you see Jedinak and whelan in midfield in front of Terry and samba. *shudder*

Fortunately we have Green, Adomah, Elmo and a fit Gabby. 

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