Popular Post DaveAV1 Posted July 16, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, briny_ear said: So, on that formula, last season the following clubs should have sacked their managers after 7 games: Brighton (11 points) Reading (11) Sheffield W (11) Fulham (12) Whereas Barnsley (15) and Norwich (14) were right to keep their managers safe in the knowledge that they had already earned automatic promotion. As I have said before, talking about sacking Bruce based on his performance after only 7 games is totally crazy. As is the idea that there would be a bank of great managers ready and waiting in mid September to step in to the vacant post. He's not going to be judged on 7 games, he will be judged on 36 of last seasons games plus 7 or what ever number games he lasts, (perhaps even 46!). Not to mention the mythical preseason. There are very few managers who have been given that number games with virtually no improvement and remained in their job. Certainly not at a club with our level of resources and expectation. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 3 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: Could you suggest when it would be acceptable in your opinion to sack him? How long does the "Four Promotions Factor" actually last for and how much influence does it hold over the evidence of what is actually happening here and now? If we are in the bottom half after 10 games and still playing awful football, he will still have been promoted four times. If he gets us relegated, he will still have been promoted four times. Yes the club needs stability but not at any cost. It's not the sackings that have been the problem, it's the appointments. And that could be the case for the next appointment. He just has to sort it out Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DaveAV1 Posted July 16, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2017 29 minutes ago, briny_ear said: BTW thought I might just mention the thing that irritates me most about this "discussion": it's people who clearly despise Bruce to the core, who write lengthy posts explaining in depth exactly how crap he is and how we have no hope of promotion if he stays, and then say, "I really hope I'm proved wrong". No you don't, you really hope you're proved right. So why not just be open about it? Not going to mention any names but you know who you are. I don't think many, if any, people despise him to the core. I certainly don't, as a bloke I like him, he passes the "I'd have a pint with him" test. Some people just don't think he will be able to achieve our aims and some people do. I don't recall reading any personal, insulting comments about him, just criticism of his football management. Considering the passions that our football club bring out in us, I'd say everyone has been admirably restrained. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post romavillan Posted July 16, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2017 26 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Im not at the point of calling for his head, yet. I'm getting close though. His football at Villa so far has been terrible and I don't really mean from an entertainment perspective. We don't retain the ball and we don't retain it because of the absolute absence of movement in the midfield and the complete lack of midfielders getting ahead of the ball. What makes it worse is that we've signed players more than capable of playing in a more progressive way, who were performing well with other clubs last season and yet they've gone backwards. I've already expressed my thoughts about Hogan and our inability to utilise him. Bruce is on thin ice with me, because I just don't see the football improving and I think it needs to be better from a club like ours in this division especially if we want to go up. We should be looking to dominate possession and games, we should be looking to impose our game on others. Too frequently last season we tried to grab a goal and see games out, a tactic almost entirely dependant upon the fitness, form and availability of Kodjia. That just isn't good enough and won't be good enough this season to keep me on side or achieve our goals. If after a full pre-season and two thirds of last season we start this season looking like a total bunch of strangers who have just been told to "get on with it" then we and Bruce are screwed. Will not take long for the crowd to be on Bruce's back if we aren't winning and looking good doing it at home. The expectation is that we are firm favourites for promotion this year (i don't think so myself but that's the case) so there will not be time and patience if we play our now traditional brand of static, poor first touch, no movement, no vision, no ability to pick a pass, hit and hope football, then the shit will hit the fan very fast. At the end of last season, Bruce did just enough to warrant this pre-season and a go at promotion. However, this was on the assumption that he could create a proper team. So far there has been little to no evidence that this is the case. Which as the first fixtures draw closer, is a shit state of affairs. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, TRO said: And that could be the case for the next appointment. He just has to sort it out Dave. I've always argued that sacking him, or any manager, without a plan regarding his successor is madness. I agree SB getting it sorted would be the best outcome. I just can't see any real evidence that he can. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) September 30th after the game with Bolton we will be 11 games into the season with a 2 week international break to come - that is the time when we should be able to decide whether Bruce had done enough to continue or should be replaced . In the meantime we should be thinking who to go for if we do need to replace him and if it happens be in a position to make a swift appointment. Edited July 16, 2017 by Eastie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dukes Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: I can't argue against the appointment. I'm arguing that he has to deliver next season or he should be sacked. We just aren't in a financial position to give him years to build something. If we are losing games and aren't at least in the playoffs after 10 games I am very sure that Bruce will be sacked, he's had plenty of time and has been backed to bring in his own players so there is no excuse for him anymore. He knew the size of the job, he knew the size of the club, and he knows what is expected. personally though, given all that I have said I think he'll still be our manager at the end of the season. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 minute ago, dukes said: If we are losing games and aren't at least in the playoffs after 10 games I am very sure that Bruce will be sacked, he's had plenty of time and has been backed to bring in his own players so there is no excuse for him anymore. He knew the size of the job, he knew the size of the club, and he knows what is expected. personally though, given all that I have said I think he'll still be our manager at the end of the season. I think it will come good too but I must admit I'm less confident after seeing yesterday's shambles - albeit a pre season friendly but there were many doubts watching it . 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 53 minutes ago, briny_ear said: So, on that formula, last season the following clubs should have sacked their managers after 7 games: Brighton (11 points) Reading (11) Sheffield W (11) Fulham (12) Whereas Barnsley (15) and Norwich (14) were right to keep their managers safe in the knowledge that they had already earned automatic promotion. As I have said before, talking about sacking Bruce based on his performance after only 7 games is totally crazy. As is the idea that there would be a bank of great managers ready and waiting in mid September to step in to the vacant post. Yes if you use that formula you do that. But that means deliberately ignoring the reasoning behind it which makes debating the issue with you rather pointless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2017 I have to say that was a bone shaking shocker for me.....just about every basic missing. I am clinging to a few hopes....... its a pre-season friendly Steve Bruce is actually very popular with his peers, they must know a decent manager. The mix / balance still does not look right to me. We still need to sign influential players.....and look likely. It looked like it was more about fitness than anything else. just about every limb crossed. There is one thing I do agree with, if we get to play anything close to that when the season kicks off......we are dead. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, Eastie said: September 30th after the game with Bolton we will be 11 games into the season with a 2 week international break to come - that is the time when we should be able to decide whether Bruce had done enough to continue or should be replaced . In the meantime we should be thinking who to go for if we do need to replace him and if it happens be in a position to make a swift appointment. I think we should have been thinking about that for a long time now. There's an argument to say that all well run clubs should always be planning at least one manager ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 51 minutes ago, briny_ear said: BTW thought I might just mention the thing that irritates me most about this "discussion": it's people who clearly despise Bruce to the core, who write lengthy posts explaining in depth exactly how crap he is and how we have no hope of promotion if he stays, and then say, "I really hope I'm proved wrong". No you don't, you really hope you're proved right. So why not just be open about it? Not going to mention any names but you know who you are. What a shocking post. Mention names please as it's impossible to properly answer without you specifying. But as the description fits my recent posts I will say this. DONT think you can read minds. DO people the respect of assuming they are honest unless you are SURE the opposite is true. TRY arguing your own position on things rather than complaining at those that do. For me. As I now feel the need to defend myself I will. I like Bruce and have repeatedly said so. I want him to succeed. I don't want him sacked. I DO think he's been poor I DO think he needs to drastically improve. I do happen to think he will I would hate him to fail. I often raise positives about him To suggest when I say these things " im not saying anyone has but if they had they know who they are "...I'm lying is disgraceful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 While the likes of Bacuna, Hutton, Richards, Cissokho and Bunn are still hanging around I wouldn't go expecting any real football any time soon whoever the manager is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 There are enough people at VP who will / should know is it Bruce or is the players just substandard. They will see the work behind the scenes to make that judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 54 minutes ago, briny_ear said: BTW thought I might just mention the thing that irritates me most about this "discussion": it's people who clearly despise Bruce to the core, who write lengthy posts explaining in depth exactly how crap he is and how we have no hope of promotion if he stays, and then say, "I really hope I'm proved wrong". No you don't, you really hope you're proved right. So why not just be open about it? Not going to mention any names but you know who you are. Such a dumb post. I imagine most people on here have followed this club for years and you think they'd rather their club flounder in the championship just so they can claim to be right to a bunch of strangers on a message board. The fact you think that shows you've become so over the top with defending Bruce that you can't even bring yourself to believe people could have concerns or questions his ability. Like I said. What a dumb post. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Jeez guys, get real, please. It's a pre-season friendly. They're about getting fit, getting match-fit, trying out players to see how they perform in different formations. It is NOT essential to put in a champions league winning performance. Starting to build a case for sacking the manager on the basis of one pre-season match is mental, like most of this thread. Edited July 16, 2017 by briny_ear 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 13 minutes ago, terrytini said: Yes if you use that formula you do that. But that means deliberately ignoring the reasoning behind it which makes debating the issue with you rather pointless. I am already aware that those who want Bruce sacked are not open to debate so we agree on that at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Just now, briny_ear said: I am already aware that those who want Bruce sacked are not open to debate so we agree on that at least. There you go again. Wierd is the nicest thing I can think of to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) If i was a player, i would imagine the worst manager in the world would not get me to abandon my skills and more importantly the basics of the game. Its my dna, its my talent at stake. I hear the steve Bruce dissenters (and i have empathy with them)and to be fair no fan can unconditionally support him forever...but i seen things in that game that tell me its them as opposed to him. It could be a bit of both, but on that showing, some of them players worry me. Edited July 16, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 I would like to think we will see nothing like that when the season kicks off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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