Steve Bruce

[Junxs]

I said right at the start of the John Terry thread, that I wouldn't be happy if we signed him then did nothing about the lack of creativity in the side. 

Watching us last season it was blindingly obvious we lacked creativity, if we can see that then why can't a man who's been promoted 4 times see that? he spends the majority of his wage budget on a central defender and openly admits he's after another defensive midfielder. Exactly what I feared seems to be happening. 

He should have spent the summer trying to get creative players, we already had enough robustness and grit in the side. We lacked spark at the other end of the pitch. Season kicks off in 20 days and I see no difference from the crap served up last year under Bruce. I honestly think he would have got us relegated had we not had Kodjia last year. 

[Spoony]

But how can anyone say Bruce wasn't the right appointment?? His championship cv speaks for itself. I feel like we have experimented with every "type" of manager now and nothing seems to be working. It clearly isn't the core issue. 

[DaveAV1]

We could try a manager who has a future not a past. A manager who has a vision of what he wants and to make it his Aston Villa team. I believe Steve Bruce was brought in as a quick fix. The Doc said as much when he paid SB a back handed compliment early in his reign, saying something along the lines that he had been impressed with him and he might be ok to stay on after he has got us promoted. Xia bought into the 4 promotions thing and to be fair so did most of us. I wasn't keen, but I believed at the time it was a good pragmatic approach for where we found ourselves. 

But it hasn't worked out. As a club we're still not working with joined up thinking. Don't get me wrong, we are much better set up than we were, with a committed and enthusiastic owner who has put money on the table and has/is putting in place a proper structure. Behind the scenes is still a work in progress which, after the neglect of the Lerner era is understandable. But those things can grow and will take time to grow. I would like to think that Steve Round is working towards an "Aston Villa Way", as was supposed to be his remit.

But that is where the non joined up thinking bit comes in. For all the behind the scenes stuff, it is the manager that dictates the style the first team play and therefore the way we are perceived as a club. Nobody, not even his greatest supporters, would like to think that we have been watching the Aston Villa way. Arsenal play the way they do because of Wenger. Man U were all about Fergie. The identity of a club has to come from the manager. Then if you're really set up right, e.g. Southampton, you can change managers but retain a playing identity. Imagine if we could build a structure like Southampton with the great advantages of facilities, history and fan base that we have? Then The Doc's ambitions wouldn't seem so fanciful. 

I agree, the club itself needs stability to recover. But if something is wrong it has to change. Steve Bruce has a great record as a Championship manager, but he will start on 0 points like everyone else on 5th August. As a Villa fan I obviously love to look at history, and history is important for all sorts of reasons, but it doesn't win you any points. They are earned in the here and now, and the evidence of almost an entire season and going into preseason matches doesn't suggest that we are looking in particularly good shape for the immediate future. 

Knee jerk change without a plan, no. Change with a vision, essential. Over to you Tony and Co.

[praisedmambo]

This thread is inane/insane.

[DCJonah]

57 minutes ago, Spoony said:

But how can anyone say Bruce wasn't the right appointment?? His championship cv speaks for itself. I feel like we have experimented with every "type" of manager now and nothing seems to be working. It clearly isn't the core issue. 

I can't argue against the appointment. I'm arguing that he has to deliver next season or he should be sacked. We just aren't in a financial position to give him years to build something. 

[praisedmambo]

19 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I can't argue against the appointment. I'm arguing that he has to deliver next season or he should be sacked. We just aren't in a financial position to give him years to build something. 

I don't think anyone anywhere is suggesting that anything but promotion is the requirement for the season. 

Some people have decided that we're not going to do that. I'd argue that kind of thinking is pointlessly premature! 

[Villan_of_oz]

51 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

We could try a manager who has a future not a past. A manager who has a vision of what he wants and to make it his Aston Villa team. I believe Steve Bruce was brought in as a quick fix. The Doc said as much when he paid SB a back handed compliment early in his reign, saying something along the lines that he had been impressed with him and he might be ok to stay on after he has got us promoted. Xia bought into the 4 promotions thing and to be fair so did most of us. I wasn't keen, but I believed at the time it was a good pragmatic approach for where we found ourselves. 

But it hasn't worked out. As a club we're still not working with joined up thinking. Don't get me wrong, we are much better set up than we were, with a committed and enthusiastic owner who has put money on the table and has/is putting in place a proper structure. Behind the scenes is still a work in progress which, after the neglect of the Lerner era is understandable. But those things can grow and will take time to grow. I would like to think that Steve Round is working towards an "Aston Villa Way", as was supposed to be his remit.

But that is where the non joined up thinking bit comes in. For all the behind the scenes stuff, it is the manager that dictates the style the first team play and therefore the way we are perceived as a club. Nobody, not even his greatest supporters, would like to think that we have been watching the Aston Villa way. Arsenal play the way they do because of Wenger. Man U were all about Fergie. The identity of a club has to come from the manager. Then if you're really set up right, e.g. Southampton, you can change managers but retain a playing identity. Imagine if we could build a structure like Southampton with the great advantages of facilities, history and fan base that we have? Then The Doc's ambitions wouldn't seem so fanciful. 

I agree, the club itself needs stability to recover. But if something is wrong it has to change. Steve Bruce has a great record as a Championship manager, but he will start on 0 points like everyone else on 5th August. As a Villa fan I obviously love to look at history, and history is important for all sorts of reasons, but it doesn't win you any points. They are earned in the here and now, and the evidence of almost an entire season and going into preseason matches doesn't suggest that we are looking in particularly good shape for the immediate future. 

Knee jerk change without a plan, no. Change with a vision, essential. Over to you Tony and Co.

Don't mind this post Dave.

[TheStagMan]

I am sick of hearing "he has 4 promotions" and "his CV speaks for itself"

 

What speaks for me is the utter garbage we see on the pitch, no tactics, no skill, no ideas, just hoof and hope, no idea what to do in the final third and the defence sitting deeper and deeper as the game goes on. No improvement over 30+ games

If I saw some glimmer of change I might think, "yes, he can get us promoted" but he just looks clueless. Don't give me this shite about he has made us harder to beat, he hasn't - the stats just don't back it up. We have not looked convincing under his tenure - ever. 

I honestly do not know how the hell he managed to get those other teams promoted, but he has shown zero chance off doing it with us. What is insanity is clinging to the hope he will because he has done it before. He hasn't done it here, and he hasn't shown anything to make me think he will. 

 

I am a Villa fan, so I really hope I am wrong (proven wrong by us winning the league (or at least getting promoted - not some smart arse saying "nah, your wrong"). I am just terrified that I will be proven right.

[TheStagMan]

Oopps. Double Post. Sorry!

Edited July 16, 2017 by TheStagMan

[DaveAV1]

Just now, Villan_of_oz said:

Don't mind this post Dave.

Thanks Voz. I'm trying to be balanced but the scales have tipped for me.

I don't  mind any of your posts either, even though I don't often agree with your point of view   

[DCJonah]

22 minutes ago, praisedmambo said:

I don't think anyone anywhere is suggesting that anything but promotion is the requirement for the season. 

Some people have decided that we're not going to do that. I'd argue that kind of thinking is pointlessly premature! 

It is premature as we might turn it round but it's based on what we saw last season and there were a lot of negatives that suggest we won't be able to achieve it. 

[macandally]

It saddens me to say but we are appalling.  Bloated squad, no set formation, plan or team.  Our attacking outlet yesterday was Green over the top, how long will that take to get found out.  Terry trying to play through the thirds but only Veretout on the same page, then we were squeezed in the middle.

Who is coaching this mess and what are they coaching?  You cannot blame the players here, some are crap and need to be moved out but having watched that rubbish on Saturday, I query what we do every day in training.

Edited July 16, 2017 by macandally

[AntrimBlack]

I don't want to read too much into pre season friendlies. But I would have hated, as a player, to have been brought on in the second half yesterday. You would just know you were not going to do well.

I know we have to rest players, but Bruce is going to have to start playing something close to his preferred team and his preferred system in these pre season matches to give the guys a chance to gel.

Positives for me. Green and Amavi were great together in the first match. Green should be first name on the team sheet, his age is immaterial. Terry and Chester looked good together. Veretout is our best midfielder.

Negatives. A lot of the players in the squad are passengers, although we have enough players good enough for this level for the final squad. Veretout should be taking the corners and free kicks, not Hourihane.

[briny_ear]

11 hours ago, terrytini said:

To put it another way.

After 7 games we will need to have accrued 14 points, using a reasonable guide of 2 points per game for Automatic promotion.

So, on that formula, last season the following clubs should have sacked their managers after 7 games:

Brighton (11 points)

Reading (11)

Sheffield W (11)

Fulham (12)

Whereas Barnsley (15) and Norwich (14) were right to keep their managers safe in the knowledge that they had already earned automatic promotion.

As I have said before, talking about sacking Bruce based on his performance after only 7 games is totally crazy. As is the idea that there would be a bank of great managers ready and waiting in mid September to step in to the vacant post.

Edited July 16, 2017 by briny_ear

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

So, on that formula, last season the following clubs should have sacked their managers after 7 games:

Brighton (11 points)

Reading (11)

Sheffield W (11)

Fulham (12)

Whereas Barnsley (15) and Norwich (14) were right to keep their managers safe in the knowledge that they had already earned automatic promotion.

As I have said before, talking about sacking Bruce based on his performance after only 7 games is totally crazy. As is the idea that there would be a bank of great managers ready and waiting in mid September to step in to the vacant post.

It wouldn't be on only 7 games though would it.

[Eastie]

42 minutes ago, praisedmambo said:

I don't think anyone anywhere is suggesting that anything but promotion is the requirement for the season. 

Some people have decided that we're not going to do that. I'd argue that kind of thinking is pointlessly premature! 

Let's see where we are in the October international break - I think Bruce has the squad to achieve promotion , I'm concerned his coaching staff lacks a more offensive attack minded coach and in mike phelan and bertschin he had that at previous clubs - not sure we needed calderwood on the staff , the coaching side is too weighted with defensive people in my view.

Bruce has to produce results and get off to a decent start - if not I feel he will be gone and 10 games is a reasonable period to judge as with RDM.

[briny_ear]

BTW thought I might just mention the thing that irritates me most about this "discussion": it's people who clearly despise Bruce to the core, who write lengthy posts explaining in depth exactly how crap he is and how we have no hope of promotion if he stays, and then say, "I really hope I'm proved wrong". 

No you don't, you really hope you're proved right. So why not just be open about it?

Not going to mention any names but you know who you are.

[briny_ear]

5 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

It wouldn't be on only 7 games though would it.

Neither would it have been for most if not all the managers referenced in my post.

[TrentVilla]

 

Im not at the point of calling for his head, yet. I'm getting close though.

His football at Villa so far has been terrible and I don't really mean from an entertainment perspective. 

We don't retain the ball and we don't retain it because of the absolute absence of movement in the midfield and the complete lack of midfielders getting ahead of the ball.

What makes it worse is that we've signed players more than capable of playing in a more progressive way, who were performing well with other clubs last season and yet they've gone backwards.

I've already expressed my thoughts about Hogan and our inability to utilise him.

Bruce is on thin ice with me, because I just don't see the football improving and I think it needs to be better from a club like ours in this division especially if we want to go up.

We should be looking to dominate possession and games, we should be looking to impose our game on others. Too frequently last season we tried to grab a goal and see games out, a tactic almost entirely dependant upon the fitness, form and availability of Kodjia.

That just isn't good enough and won't be good enough this season to keep me on side or achieve our goals.

 

[vreitti]

6 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

BTW thought I might just mention the thing that irritates me most about this "discussion": it's people who clearly despise Bruce to the core, who write lengthy posts explaining in depth exactly how crap he is and how we have no hope of promotion if he stays, and then say, "I really hope I'm proved wrong". 

No you don't, you really hope you're proved right. So why not just be open about it?

Not going to mention any names but you know who you are.

I'm equally irritated at all them ppl constantly referring to the manager's past achievements, and how we'll suddenly be great again after he's had his preseason. And I'm barely allowed to say this.