KSV Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I think there's a good chance we will be much better this season. Our players are too good for the level we are at for them not to be. Agreed. Our roster is so good for this level. The depth we have is amazing. Especially in attack. A fit again McCormack Hogan Kodjia. A fit again Gabby RHM as back ups.. Lansbury Hourihane Jedinak. Terry Chester. Not even mentioning players like Adomah Green Grealish plus any new signings. Bruce has to get it right. I think he will.. If not we bring someone who will but hes a decent enough manager who got promoted with less. Edited July 7, 2017 by KSV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: Then I question the need for Steve Bruce if a player like Jedinak is the difference between winning and losing. We might as well have stuck with RDM if it's all down to one player. It's of course not, which is why this is a ridiculous excuse. And apart from one player none of our other attacking players flourished even when Jedinak was playing. I do not understand that statement and to me that is ridiculous......it's the effect one player has on many was my reference and we clearly missed him such was our brittle state. Well, you open another debate, because in the fullness of time RDM may have got it right.....He didn't have enough time and more importantly, we wasn't in a position to give it to him. One player ( depending who he is)can have a influencing effect on so many others.....I thought you might know that. I have said many,many times on here, the team was not right last season, far from it......but 2 players was a massive part of what bit of good we had. I am not sure if you understand what I am saying......I am happy for you to disagree and disgard it.....but I am unsure from your responses, you even understand my point. Edited July 7, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TRO said: I do not understand that statement and to me that is ridiculous......it the effect one player has on many was my reference and we clearly missed him such was our brittle state. Well, you open another debate, because in the fullness of time RDM may have got it right.....He didn't have enough time and more importantly, we wasn't in a position to give it to him. One player ( depending who he is)can have a influencing effect on so many others.....I thought you might know that. I have said many,many times on here, the team was not right last season, far from it......but 2 players was a massive part of what bit of good we had. I am not sure if you understand what I am saying......I am happy for you to disagree and disgard it.....but I am unsure from your responses, you even understand my point. Your point seems to be that Bruce can't be criticised because Jedinak was injured. In one of your posts you amazingly use the word victim to describe Steve Bruce. Edited July 7, 2017 by DCJonah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, DCJonah said: Yes and I did say that with the wages and contact length the Terry deal is well worth the gamble. I believe we have a squad easily capable of promotion. I'll give Bruce the chance for the first 10 or so games and see what happens I'm looking forward to the new season but I still strongly disagree with some of the stuff posted about last season. When we come out of the traps......storm the division, Steve Bruce is hailed as a hero.......John Terry has galvanised the team. are you still going to bitch about last season and come up with all the neggies to satisfy your overall dislike/disapproval of Steve Bruce. despite your disagreement with those that approve of him not once have I seen any acknowledgment from you for their comments. I accept that some fans don't care for him, but your stance seems intransigent. Edited July 7, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: When we come out of the traps......storm the division, Steve Bruce is hailed as a hero.......John Terry has galvanised the team. are you still going to bitch about last season and come up with all the neggies to satisfy your overall dislike/disapproval of Steve Bruce. despite your disagreement with those that approve of him not once have I seen any acknowledgment from you for their comments. I accept that some fans don't care for him, but stance seems intransigent. If people like you continue to post bullshit myths and rubbish to defend the 'victim' then yes probably But as all those glorious moments of next year haven't happened yet I'm happy to disagree with the stuff I read regarding last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicVillan Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Ultimately, last season we played abysmal football that resulted in a 13th place finish in the championship. After the first 11 games people were talking about a relegation battle and Villa doing the double drop. Whilst we all agree it's not good enough , considering the dire January run 13th was a result. Our home form was top 3..like I said it's a mental thing..success is a process..you need intertia and I think we will have it this season. We had it in patches last season we just lacked consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Your point seems to be that Bruce can't be criticised because Jedinak was injured. In one of your posts you amazingly use the word victim to describe Steve Bruce. Don't be silly......I was merely giving my view of a REASON for the slump, not an excuse. If someone has events conspire against them through no fault of their own, i think victim is a decent word to use. IF you are suggesting that SB should have gone out and bought 2 ready made replacements for the said players.....I think you are very short on empathy and very high on expectation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 1 minute ago, CosmicVillan said: After the first 11 games people were talking about a relegation battle and Villa doing the double drop. Whilst we all agree it's not good enough , considering the dire January run 13th was a result. Our home form was top 3..like I said it's a mental thing..success is a process..you need intertia and I think we will have it this season. We had it in patches last season we just lacked consistency. We may well have it this season. All I'm saying is last season was poor and Bruce had a long time to implement ideas and a style and he failed to do any of that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 1 minute ago, TRO said: Don't be silly......I was merely giving my view of a REASON for the slump, not an excuse. If someone has events conspire against them through no fault of their own, i think victim is a decent word to use. IF you are suggesting that SB should have gone out and bought 2 ready made replacements for the said players.....I think you are very short on empathy and very high on expectation. No I don't. But he's meant to be a top manager at this level. I expected to see better use of his squad and tactics, I don't think it's acceptable to think because of an injury to a player then we can't judge the manager of the results and performances. All managers have various issues throughout a season to deal with. This was one that Bruce failed to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, DCJonah said: If people like you continue to post bullshit myths and rubbish to defend the 'victim' then yes probably But as all those glorious moments of next year haven't happened yet I'm happy to disagree with the stuff I read regarding last year. DC can i make a suggestion.....lets take a rain check until the end of this forth coming season and we will have a grown up debate then.....on the past. In the meantime please ignore my posts and I will be happy to ignore yours.....because mate...... we are poles apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: No I don't. But he's meant to be a top manager at this level. I expected to see better use of his squad and tactics, I don't think it's acceptable to think because of an injury to a player then we can't judge the manager of the results and performances. All managers have various issues throughout a season to deal with. This was one that Bruce failed to do. of course they do, and thats why sometimes the teams drop down the league.....you cannot always move players around to find the solution.....no other players in our squad could do their work......thats why we missed them and so did the team. ps that was my last response to you.....see previous post. Edited July 7, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 27 minutes ago, DCJonah said: This makes no sense. If Bruce felt it was necessary to play this way, then instructed his team to play that way, then that's Bruce wanting to play defensive football. I'm sure most managers could say they'd like their team to play like Barcelona but if you can't make it happen it doesn't mean much. Ultimately, last season we played abysmal football that resulted in a 13th place finish in the championship. meaning he HAD to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Haha what happened to ignoring? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 32 minutes ago, KSV said: Not many people know Rugby League.. but as an aussie and a Manly supporter.. ill tell you why Bruce can turn it around. Manly in 2016.. had a new coach with pretty much a whole new side.. lots of good players retired/left/let go and he brought in quite a few players. Ultimately they were terrible. Clueless in attack and defence. On paper looked half decent but it didnt work out.. add a few injuries along the way.. they finished outside the finals spots. Manly fans wanted the coach gone already.. me included. Fast forward 2017. Currently sitting in 3rd position. Best attack in the league and one of the best defences. Only one or two new signings and CLICK. Dont know what the difference was.. but the team gelled and looks amazing right now. I know its different sport etc.. but my point is.. sometimes a new coach cant install his ideas into the players very quickly. An off season makes all the difference.. theres time to implement ideas/tactics. Work on fitness.. get some players back from injury and fit again. A few new signings and tweaks.. and its all different. Bruce has been promoted 4 times.. he knows the league.. he knows what is required. I trust he can have a good off season.. a few new signings to boost morale (which Terry has alone) and before you know it.. half way through the next season we are in the top 2-3. If i learnt anything from last year.. sometimes it takes time.. i didnt expect it to happen but i am eating humble pie now. I am hoping for the same with Villa. Good post KSV If and I emphasise the word If, you did not have the benefit of hindsight and that experience that example ( and a good one)may not have resonated in you mind. Its something i am totally in tune with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicVillan Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, DCJonah said: We may well have it this season. All I'm saying is last season was poor and Bruce had a long time to implement ideas and a style and he failed to do any of that. Last season was almost by definition of the league position bang average...that's up from where we were when we got relegated as we were completely abysmal. Expecting us to be somewhere between good and great last season (i.e. Top 6 ) was unrealistic given the state we went down in. This season it is realistic to expect us to mount a proper challenge, Bruce has got his players and had time now..last season was just firefighting. When an organization is in crisis turning it around is a massive culture shift..what we see on pitch is just the tip of the iceberg. The good thing is there are no excuses now ( for Bruce ) so he'll either succeed or be gone by Christmas..It's a win - win whichever side of the fence you are on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, CosmicVillan said: Last season was almost by definition of the league position bang average...that's up from where we were when we got relegated as we were completely abysmal. Expecting us to be somewhere between good and great last season (i.e. Top 6 ) was unrealistic given the state we went down in. This season it is realistic to expect us to mount a proper challenge, Bruce has got his players and had time now..last season was just firefighting. When an organization is in crisis turning it around is a massive culture shift..what we see on pitch is just the tip of the iceberg. The good thing is there are no excuses now ( for Bruce ) so he'll either succeed or be gone by Christmas..It's a win - win whichever side of the fence you are on. Some good points but I disagree with the last one It is vital we get promoted next season. If Bruce fails and is gone by Christmas I doubt it will happen We will end up with a new guy wanting new players and the same excuses coming out. Promotion is the only win for next season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 18 minutes ago, TRO said: Good post KSV If and I emphasise the word If, you did not have the benefit of hindsight and that experience that example ( and a good one)may not have resonated in you mind. Its something i am totally in tune with. I wanted Bruce out.. but after what i learnt with Manly..i am prepared to give him more time now.. Honestly.. i do not know how we turned it around.. and Bruce has far more credentials than the Manly coach. I do hope Steve brings in one or two more coaches to help out in attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, KSV said: I wanted Bruce out.. but after what i learnt with Manly..i am prepared to give him more time now.. Honestly.. i do not know how we turned it around.. and Bruce has far more credentials than the Manly coach. I do hope Steve brings in one or two more coaches to help out in attack John Terry is/was up there in lights with the best in international football.....Revered by the likes of SAF/Harry/Jose.....just about everyone in football. My question is to all and sundry.......Does anyone honestly think he would come to play for a bum manager? never in a millions years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 Was sent this by my sister of all people, who doesn't even follow football haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted July 7, 2017 Share Posted July 7, 2017 oh dear Tro 1 hour ago, TRO said: We will not play that way this season all things being equal( he gets the players he wants) because he has the time and the players needed to fix it. So now that the money has been blown, there is the ready made excuse "Bruce didnt get the players he wanted because he & RDM blew it all on shite" Tro, you've dug your hole soooooo deep that you cant get out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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