Steve Bruce

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I was literally ecstatic, when I seen the aggression from him....its been a long time since I saw a midfielder for us like that.

We need it at Number 9 now.

I really like Kodj.....but physically woeful.....He is simply not a leader of the line.

Fix that....and another Centre half with Muscle , maybe a tricky winger, with a rocket up his arse and we will be away.

If we can get these problem area's solved.....Jack will be even better than what he is now

Agree with all of this. Maybe a left back too. But a top centre half and striker could make or break our season.

[bannedfromHandV]

4 minutes ago, Taxahunter said:

Of course I would give him credit when its deserved and I should have mentioned that in my post. 

If you would bother to go back and read some on my previous post, you will see that I have given plenty of credit when winning and when he has had the gut to go out and play football, instead of setting us up not to loose. But to give him credit for a scraped win against Wigan, I wont do that.

 

Fair play to him for getting us 6 points, not so much in the way we got them.

Did you watch the game Saturday, out of interest? The full game, not a highlights package, not a website showing statistics, actually watch the game?

 

I'll try this once more, we are - out of 72 teams, the (joint) highest scorers in 2018, goals win games - we've won a lot of games, we've scored a lot of goals, I, and many others are entertained, that you and a handful of others cannot see past your own high expectations is your problem.

 

 

[striker]

35 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

We're also the joint highest scorers in the entire EFL for 2018 (to date).

 

But seriously, Bruce is a dinosaur, the football is crap and nobody enjoys it, and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise okay folks, 6 points out of 6 and 6 goals - pathetic, we should be winning every game 7-0 and even then we reserve the right to complain that we didn't win 8-0.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Bruce is not going to get this current squad promoted. There are too many weaknesses and i don’t think he is a good enough of a manager to be able to deal with those weaknesses by the way he coaches and sets up the team.

However with a few more quality additions he can make the team hard to beat and with enough individual talent to win us games. It won’t be pretty but it will be effective and we’ll be right up there.  

But if these additions don’t come in then I think the team and Bruce will struggle.

[Taxahunter]

10 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Did you watch the game Saturday, out of interest? The full game, not a highlights package, not a website showing statistics, actually watch the game?

 

I'll try this once more, we are - out of 72 teams, the (joint) highest scorers in 2018, goals win games - we've won a lot of games, we've scored a lot of goals, I, and many others are entertained, that you and a handful of others cannot see past your own high expectations is your problem.

 

 

Yes, I watched the game. I watch all the games available to me as I live in Copenhagen, but I have invested in AVTV, so watch all games being shown and I travel to Villa Park 2-4 times a season.

Joint highest scorers in 2018? Good statistic, but it tells me another thing as well, not so flattering. That is eaither those goals has been scored in a handfull of games or we have shipped in a bucketload of goals, which baffles me, because I keep hearing that Bruce can put a defence together to make us hard to beat, because even with the stats you have presented, we still managed to stay in the Championship. 

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, Taxahunter said:

Yes, I watched the game. I watch all the games available to me as I live in Copenhagen, but I have invested in AVTV, so watch all games being shown and I travel to Villa Park 2-4 times a season.

Joint highest scorers in 2018? Good statistic, but it tells me another thing as well, not so flattering. That is eaither those goals has been scored in a handfull of games or we have shipped in a bucketload of goals, which baffles me, because I keep hearing that Bruce can put a defence together to make us hard to beat, because even with the stats you have presented, we still managed to stay in the Championship. 

3rd best defence in the league last season (42 conceded). Only Cardiff and Wolves conceded less (39 each)

[bannedfromHandV]

1 minute ago, Taxahunter said:

Yes, I watched the game. I watch all the games available to me as I live in Copenhagen, but I have invested in AVTV, so watch all games being shown and I travel to Villa Park 2-4 times a season.

Joint highest scorers in 2018? Good statistic, but it tells me another thing as well, not so flattering. That is eaither those goals has been scored in a handfull of games or we have shipped in a bucketload of goals, which baffles me, because I keep hearing that Bruce can put a defence together to make us hard to beat, because even with the stats you have presented, we still managed to stay in the Championship. 

I give up pal, literally zero point in us being in dialogue together, we fundamentally view villa and football differently. 

You carry on being disappointed every week and I'll carry on being quietly satisfied. 

I know which one of us will enjoy the next 8 months more. 

[KHV]

13 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Bruce is not going to get this current squad promoted. There are too many weaknesses and i don’t think he is a good enough of a manager to be able to deal with those weaknesses by the way he coaches and sets up the team.

However with a few more quality additions he can make the team hard to beat and with enough individual talent to win us games. It won’t be pretty but it will be effective and we’ll be right up there.  

But if these additions don’t come in then I think the team and Bruce will struggle.

We need a top quality centre back as a priority

[Mic09]

I think the problem of this debate is the outlook on our situation.

While some fans understand that we are a Championship club that has been playing second tier football for the last 3 seasons (or even longer if you consider the quality of previous campaigns), others still see us as an English powerhouse that SHOULD be up there and SHOULD be entertaining and SHOULD attract best managers & players.

I sit within the first group - we are a club that has been badly run for years, we are not to be feared when teams at our level like Leeds or Forest come to town, we are no longer a team with Barry, Young, Milner or Laursen.  

Considering our state of existence right now,  Bruce is the best we could hope for and he has shown that he can deliver results. His home win ratio is excellent, he build a great team spirit, we score goals and he attracts good players.
 

Edited August 14, 2018 by Mic09

[Taxahunter]

8 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I give up pal, literally zero point in us being in dialogue together, we fundamentally view villa and football differently. 

You carry on being disappointed every week and I'll carry on being quietly satisfied. 

I know which one of us will enjoy the next 8 months more. 

Fair enough, it wont affect my life and I wont loose any sleep over that. Have a good one

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

But the exaggeration of "Bruce-ball" on Villa Talk is tiresome.

I strongly disagree.

No exaggeration Stevo - It's fact.

... that's unless we're watching a different team to what you're watching.

[Stevo985]

17 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I strongly disagree.

No exaggeration Stevo - It's fact.

... that's unless we're watching a different team to what you're watching.

Well no. You can't just put "fact" after something and pretend it's true. By the very definition of the word, it is not a "fact".

It's an opinion. One that you're completely entitled to.

It's just an opinion that I think is an exaggeration of reality.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Stevo985

[tomsky_11]

44 minutes ago, Taxahunter said:

Yes, I watched the game. I watch all the games available to me as I live in Copenhagen, but I have invested in AVTV, so watch all games being shown and I travel to Villa Park 2-4 times a season.

Joint highest scorers in 2018? Good statistic, but it tells me another thing as well, not so flattering. That is eaither those goals has been scored in a handfull of games or we have shipped in a bucketload of goals, which baffles me, because I keep hearing that Bruce can put a defence together to make us hard to beat, because even with the stats you have presented, we still managed to stay in the Championship. 

Or we started last season poorly.

[bannedfromHandV]

32 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I strongly disagree.

No exaggeration Stevo - It's fact.

... that's unless we're watching a different team to what you're watching.

Ive been thinking about this a lot, as you say, we all watch the same matches and whilst we may take enjoyment out of different aspects, it's still the same game. 

 

For me, it's not that we all view the games differently, I just think we have different measures of success - this ties perfectly into the wider SB debate, some people have a very black and white view of non-promotion = failure = sacked. 

Others don't. 

I think as someone alluded to earlier on this page, it may well be that a lot of people haven't adjusted to the reality of our situation, I can imagine it must be hard for the foreign contingent amongst us, some of who had probably barely heard of the Championship previously.

[terrytini]

2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

I think the aim was to get promoted, not to have the joint most points at home.

If, as a fan, you only have one aim, you ( not you personally of course) will spend your life having much to complain about and little to be happy about. Likewise as a player, or even a Club.

Personally I view it that the Club/ Manager has many aims and goals, and as fans we have even more.

So for me, our home record is something I’m happy about, impressed with, and proud of. And it makes me happy. And Bruce did it. So I’m pleased with him too on that score. In fact there’s a whole host of things I’m pleased about, and that I’ve enjoyed, in addition to some that have not been good at all.

[sne]

40 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Ive been thinking about this a lot, as you say, we all watch the same matches and whilst we may take enjoyment out of different aspects, it's still the same game. 

 

For me, it's not that we all view the games differently, I just think we have different measures of success - this ties perfectly into the wider SB debate, some people have a very black and white view of non-promotion = failure = sacked. 

Others don't. 

I think as someone alluded to earlier on this page, it may well be that a lot of people haven't adjusted to the reality of our situation, I can imagine it must be hard for the foreign contingent amongst us, some of who had probably barely heard of the Championship previously.

I think that's a big part of it tbh.

But we also got new owners and spent a staggering £80m something and a fortune on wages on replacing everyone involved in the relegation with at least outwards from the club the clear expectations to be promoted in both those seasons.

The reality was that we tried to Man City the league by throwing money at it without a clear plan. Not Bruce's fault, he's just a part of it.

 

Edited August 14, 2018 by sne

[Zatman]

2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

I think the aim was to get promoted, not to have the joint most points at home.

I think we won something like 12 home games in the previous 3 seasons combined

[holteend1982]

4 hours ago, Taxahunter said:

Off course you have to make your team aware of the opposition threats, key players, set pieces and so on, but to change your style of play or change half a team to accomodate an opponent like Wigan just doesnt make sense and just show that his fear of loosing is bigger than his desire to win, but thats just my oppinion. 

How often do you see the likes of Juventus, Roma, Real, Barcelona, PSG and just to name a few teams from Denmark - FC Copenhagen or Brøndby change their style of play? Almost never because they know they are a force to reckoned with, they know their opponents is changing their style of play, whenever they play the big teams. I know we cant compare ourselves to the likes of Real or Barcelona or any of the other teams I have mentioned bar the 2 teams from Denmark, but comparing us to the teams in the Championship, we should be a force that other teams are "scared" of" and a comparison we can use.

Now this is something new ive not seen Bruce criticised for before. The reason is out of all those teams you've suggested that don't really change their style of play is because they are by far the best teams in their divisions, they don't need to change as they should win most weeks regardless. Our division is a lot more competitive. If you also look at when these teams meet in the champions league, when one side doesn't change systems the results can be chaotic. Roma had a chance of a final, didn't change the back 3 high press got thumped off Liverpool, psg 4 up at barca set up as normal lost 6 1, you could even say wolves come to villa Park without changing any of the system and got a hammering. 

Sometimes you just need to set up differently in order to win a game. 

[villabromsgrove]

If we're talking about different ways to judge a manager, then Scott Hogan might be worth considering as an example of SB's skills as a manager.

Dean Smith got Hogan involved in a free flowing attacking system and Scott scored goals for fun.

Bruce bought him having been impressed by his goal scoring prowess, evidently without realising that we didn't play the free flowing football with service that Hogan needs.

I saw a rumour just now that Sheffield United are interested in loaning Hogan. Chris Wilder coaches a fully attacking system there, and SH would get the service he needs to flourish again.

One player, three different managers, and very different results (potentially in Wilder's case).

If strikers can't flourish as part of a team at Villa, then it's fair to criticise the manager.

 

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

If we're talking about different ways to judge a manager, then Scott Hogan might be worth considering as an example of SB's skills as a manager.

Dean Smith got Hogan involved in a free flowing attacking system and Scott scored goals for fun.

Bruce bought him having been impressed by his goal scoring prowess, evidently without realising that we didn't play the free flowing football with service that Hogan needs.

I saw a rumour just now that Sheffield United are interested in loaning Hogan. Chris Wilder coaches a fully attacking system there, and SH would get the service he needs to flourish again.

One player, three different managers, and very different results (potentially in Wilder's case).

If strikers can't flourish as part of a team at Villa, then it's fair to criticise the manager.

 

Or Scott Hogan isn't very good and fluked one decent season in his entire career to date?

Kodjia (pre injury) and Grabban haven't seemed to struggle under Bruce. Plus Davis has been pretty decent for a young lad and RHM looks promising.

Seems unfair to criticise Bruce for Hogan (he deserves criticism for signing him in the first place by the way), especially when part of your criticism is based on a prediction of something that hasn't happened yet.