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Two people on this thread just repeat the same arguments and debates on here over and over again?

It feels like Groundhog Day whenever I read it. 

Edited by Vive_La_Villa
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2 hours ago, TRO said:

Why Did Cardiff not sack Warnock 2016/17?.....13th

Tro how many times does this have to be said. Warnocks remit first season was to keep them up! 

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4 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I genuinely can't remember a time where people have wanted a manager to continue, with it being completely acceptable to go backwards and achieve nothing. 

Mon, Houllier, Mcleish, lambert and RDM never had it. Utterly amazed that steve bruce is the one to get it 

 

I don't really see why it's so hard to understand. We came within 90 minutes of promotion, and I think that's a good effort. I get that you don't, but I do. 

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1 hour ago, villarocker said:

The last time we were struggling with the finances we were calling for Lambert to be sacked. Lambert went and so did we not long afterwards. We need stability, whether we like his football or not. Bruce offers continuity at a time when nobody really knows what the f**k is going on. Once the bank balance is sorted, let's look at the manager then. 

Don’t you know, you can’t sack a manager if you're struggling financially?   That would be hysteria!    

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1 hour ago, pacbuddies said:

To be fair, the previous five plus years we were in the Premier League not the fizzy pop league with the dross that occupies it. It would take a manager of absolute shitness to turn in worse performances in such an inferior environment!

I find these comments bizarre. 

I don't recall anyone during our shit 5 years in the prem saying 'ah it's okay that we're doing shit cos it's not in the championship'.

So why is it okay to say doing well isn't worth as much because it's not in the PL? 

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1 hour ago, pacbuddies said:

To be fair, the previous five plus years we were in the Premier League not the fizzy pop league with the dross that occupies it. It would take a manager of absolute shitness to turn in worse performances in such an inferior environment!

That sounds like a challenge to me.....

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29 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

Don’t you know, you can’t sack a manager if you're struggling financially?   That would be hysteria!    

You sure can sack the manager but, in my opinion, that would be a mistake right now. I feel that we some sort kind of stability around the place whilst this shitstorm is happening. Now, further down the line, maybe then we can get rid - with or without money in the bank. Just, for now, I'd rather us keep some sort of stability. 

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1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

We were going down with lambert. There was nothing stable about us. 

You could have said that for each season he was here but it didn't happen. 

Right now, although I'm not crazy about Bruce's management style, I'd rather be cautious and have continuity than change the manager at such time of upheaval. 

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2 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

But my point is , Saunders was a great manager. Bruce isn't.  And there wasn't  the doom and gloom then, as there is now. We still had the like of Little, Mortimer, Cowans and many more capable players, who went on to achieve  great things. We still had stability, and, what's  more , the fans had total faith in the manager and they were rewarded for that faith.

You plainly don't remember the mood when they were being sold.

No it wasn't like now.....but 3 very good players going, left temporary doubts.

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2 hours ago, praisedmambo said:

They would have been wrong to sack them regardless.

Cardiff and Fulham both improved under their managers after keeping them. I think we can do the same even with the new climate. 

It's so easy to look at Bournemouth/Huddersfield and so on and say 'we should do that'. Everyone remembers the successes but nobody remembers the other dozen + examples of clubs going for youthful coaches that failed. 

Whatever people say about Bruce he did get us 4th and bar one shit goal we were as effective as Fulham were...they weren't all over us by any means (as in making chances). It was a tight game. 

That compared to the season before is enough for me to be ok for him staying on. It wasn't perfect but it certainly doesn't warrant what seems to be genuine hatred on here. The improvement under Bruce was huge from the shit we had endured for the previous five plus years. 

A tight game ? We didn't even turn up for the first 45 minutes.  And even with all that 2nd half possession, there was nothing controlled or any guile to it. The word frantic comes to mind. I don't  even recall us winning a corner. We were never going to score after conceding, and after  that first- half performance, we got what we deserved. It was a disaster and nothing less.

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2 minutes ago, TRO said:

You plainly don't remember the mood when they were being sold.

No it wasn't like now.....but 3 very good players going, left temporary doubts.

The key word being " temporary ", and I plainly remember them being very quickly squashed.

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1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Probably because neither club spent the resources to make automatic promotion the target and therefore neither manager failed. 

Pretty useless argument. So every manager given time succeeds? Shame you didn't think that when RDM was here. Were you banging on for mcleish to get more years?

So what is the aim under Bruce then. We now have got to a point where after failing to meet the targets set, you are happy with a manager if he gets a striker to head the ball. Its actually laughable. What a dream situation he is created for himself. 

 

 

absolute rubbish.....and your alternative is what exactly?

blimey, you are like a pinball machine.

Edited by TRO
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5 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

The key word being " temporary ", and I plainly remember them being very quickly squashed.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.....when we was in the middle of it, it didn't seem temporary, that's only what it turned out to be.

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4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.....when we was in the middle of it, it didn't seem temporary, that's only what it turned out to be.

Your words, not mine.

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1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

I don't really see why it's so hard to understand. We came within 90 minutes of promotion, and I think that's a good effort. I get that you don't, but I do. 

We came within 90 minutes of promotion. We didn't even turn up for the first 45. So where was the good effort when it was so desperately needed ? That's what's difficult to comprehend, especially when you consider the fallout.

Totally inexplicable and unforgivable in my book.

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I havent posted in this thread since a day or 2 after the play off final as it was obvious he wasnt going anywhere

There really is no point in debating it anymore as he's here to stay so just get behind him (as much as it hurts to do so). We'll be a better club if we are united as fans than continue to bicker over the managers position.

Having said that, the board really should give him a years notice now so they haven't got to pay him off £3m this time next year (if the rumours are true that he's on a rolling 1 year deal). This would give us time to line up the new manager for the 19/20 season with a bit of a financial order again.

At least with Bruce in charge we wont finish below mid table this coming season. 

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1 hour ago, sheepyvillian said:

We came within 90 minutes of promotion. We didn't even turn up for the first 45. So where was the good effort when it was so desperately needed ? That's what's difficult to comprehend, especially when you consider the fallout.

Totally inexplicable and unforgivable in my book.

When you consider the cost and what he went ahead and assembled anyway. It's one thing to be confident and back yourself, it's another to negate any responsibility for club financial welfare on the basis it's not a prominent part of your job description whilst singing about mending the relationship to the fans. That's arrogance.

That's one thing that has pissed me off with Bruce. It's never his fault. He's been here since 2016. At what point does he become part of the collective that is Aston Villa and accept responsibility beyond challenging for promotion one year, second attempt?

"To be there or thereabouts" is actually my idea of a successful season, but not if as a consequence the club has a meaningless regression that puts our future in doubt the very next year, or fails to retain a playing standard that resembles either building on foundations or minor cut backs in order to allow for further growth.

Bruce is not absolved from blame in all this, should our ability to push for promotion in the coming season be hampered by what's transpired in the one just finished.

He likes to think he inherited a right mess. We had 6 out of 11 starters already playing for us under Di Matteo, and a considerable amount of the deadwood shifted out under Di Matteo, whether by loan or permanently. 11 players were moved on permanently under Di Matteo, 8 under Bruce (over half of which went to top tier clubs). I think Bruce takes some credit for the dirt left on RDM's hands.

There's a large part of this spiel where I owe Bruce the credit he deserves as well and not purely the flak I've been posting of recent, but as a whole I fail to see how he's been a success.

Is it possible he's a good choice as manager for us at the moment? Yes.

Does that extricate him from being deemed as having under-performed? No.

Do I think he will improve on his shortcomings, given time? No, I think he's gone all in and gone bust.

I only hope he proves me and the rest of his critics wrong and has a season to have us consider another one under him, which is what I've said since he arrived. Which is getting tired.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

He likes to think he inherited a right mess.

 

That's cos he did. A completely and utterly screwed up mess of a club in pretty much every aspect.

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2 minutes ago, MrDuck said:

That's cos he did. A completely and utterly screwed up mess of a club in pretty much every aspect.

I don't agree, I think he inherited a club turning a corner. Freshly out of a very miserable patch in its history, without doubt. To his credit he got them results better than RDM immediately and therefore bought himself time.

I think an apt description of Bruce is said in reference to his playing style, "an honest trier who made the absolute most of limited natural ability" and, "His indomitable spirit and motivational qualities were vital to United".

To continue with what was happening in his personal life, in the manner that he did, deserves admiration.

I remember a PC with Bruce where he explained what a CB's role is and what assets are most vital to them, another where he discusses forwards being able to defend. Which highlights that his approach and focus is in contrast to that of my idols and ideals.

What's relevant though is can he take Aston Villa forward?

So far the best argument I've heard for it comes from TRO, which is mostly philosophical which (although my favourite) doesn't rely too heavily on what's transpired before us, rather an optimism which is is a quality of TRO's, not necessarily indicative of why Bruce will take us forward where others won't.

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The mirror reporting bruce has to find 50m. Don't know if this is true or waffle but if it is true no quality manager is going to take this job. Stick with bruce give us some stability. That's what we need right now.

Implement some youngsters that bruce knows about.

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