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Demitri_C

Steve Bruce

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3 hours ago, TRO said:

so, do we all dig a hole...

or grit our teeth and fight back.

its a very, very annoying set back.

but we do one or two things as a team next season we wallow in self pity and drag our arses in to every game.....or we remember the pee we have had taken out of us come out fighting and win every ball.

I have seen this before, with the right character employed, it could have the very reverse that everyone is expecting.....and don't under estimate expectation it can be the biggest burden to carry.

Next season, could be a big surprise, for the better.

ps when Gray, Deehan and Gidman left,in one summer...... we thought we was dead.....we actually went on to better things....but we need that fighting spirit.

Always  the comparison with the Saunders era. We played decent football under Saunders and actually won trophies . I really don't see that happening with the current  manager.

As for Gray, Deehan and Gidman, they were sold with the wishes of Saunders. At the time, he obviously  thought it would better Villa in the long term. How right he was. Such was the genius of the great man. I'm afraid that epithet does not come to the fore when describing , you know who.

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1 minute ago, DCJonah said:

So you said you don't expect gradual improvement then. Ready made excuses to go as well. 

DC i don't quite understand that, but i will have a stab.

of course I expect gradual improvement under stable circumstances......The circumstances are hardly stable, even you can appreciate that, i think.

so I don't know where its going to take us.....but I remain optimistic.....otherwise, I have wasted my season card money.

Ready made excuses are not the same as reasonable argument....don't confuse the two.

so we don't agree.....thats life.

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6 minutes ago, TRO said:

DC i don't quite understand that, but i will have a stab.

of course I expect gradual improvement under stable circumstances......The circumstances are hardly stable, even you can appreciate that, i think.

so I don't know where its going to take us.....but I remain optimistic.....otherwise, I have wasted my season card money.

Ready made excuses are not the same as reasonable argument....don't confuse the two.

so we don't agree.....thats life.

And with bruce there is always a few of these reasonable arguments. 

So if you don't have any expectations for next season, why so desperate to keep bruce? What do you see him doing then? 

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3 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Always  the comparison with the Saunders era. We played decent football under Saunders and actually won trophies . I really don't see that happening with the current  manager.

As for Gray, Deehan and Gidman, they were sold with the wishes of Saunders. At the time, he obviously  thought it would better Villa in the long term. How right he was. Such was the genius of the great man. I'm afraid that epithet does not come to the fore when describing , you know who.

Sheepy, its not the names, I am comparing.....I'm talking about losing valued players....its happened before and it wasn't doom and gloom...is my point.

I use Saunders as a benchmark, because its the closest thing in my Villa watching life time ,I can highlight to how we got it right.

as for Gray, Gidman & Deehan.....I'm not sure what you are on about.....I am talking about us the fans being disappointed at the time, because we didn't know what was coming in.....that is precisely the point I am making now.

 

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2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

And with bruce there is always a few of these reasonable arguments. 

So if you don't have any expectations for next season, why so desperate to keep bruce? What do you see him doing then? 

and you don't trade in them....people who live in glass houses......

I have expectations of a sort....I want to see the kids come on.....I want to see someone up front who can head the ball, (if our intention is to use crosses) and hold off centre halves to bring in midfielders. I want to see a robust Centre half signed....( wishful thinking maybe)

I am not desperate to keep Bruce, but desperate to not go backwards.....If we can realistically have any hope of doing better, I am all ears.

The financial situation has implications, I am unsure to what DEGREE those will impact on the playing side....hence my gravitation to a man who has improved us thus far ( despite failing in his quest to get us up)and understands those financial implications.

Repairing the damage, rebuilding the team under tight constraints and re- appraising the kids in a championship environment.

Tell me.

Why did Fulham not sack Jokanovic 2016/17?....Playoffs

Why Did Cardiff not sack Warnock 2016/17?.....13th

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12 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

And with bruce there is always a few of these reasonable arguments. 

So if you don't have any expectations for next season, why so desperate to keep bruce? What do you see him doing then? 

I have to ask, as it is clear to you now that basically everybody has failed, and let us just accept that - but come kick-off of the new season, are you prepared to accept the past as failure and judge the now and the future on its own terms and misgivings? 

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1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

My opinion is that, if the finances are as bad as has been apparent in the past couple of weeks, then we'll struggle next season.

 

If our finances are better than they appear then it's a completely different story.

Now that sounds more positive 😉

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

Dean Smith has never had to make any of those kind of decisions before.

Did you forget that he was manager at Walsall before Brentford?! I see your argument but it's flawed. 

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28 minutes ago, Made In Aston said:

Did you forget that he was manager at Walsall before Brentford?! I see your argument but it's flawed. 

don't remember writing that.....not sure what context it relates to , but Hey ho!

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1 hour ago, TRO said:

Sheepy, its not the names, I am comparing.....I'm talking about losing valued players....its happened before and it wasn't doom and gloom...is my point.

I use Saunders as a benchmark, because its the closest thing in my Villa watching life time ,I can highlight to how we got it right.

as for Gray, Gidman & Deehan.....I'm not sure what you are on about.....I am talking about us the fans being disappointed at the time, because we didn't know what was coming in.....that is precisely the point I am making now.

 

But my point is , Saunders was a great manager. Bruce isn't.  And there wasn't  the doom and gloom then, as there is now. We still had the like of Little, Mortimer, Cowans and many more capable players, who went on to achieve  great things. We still had stability, and, what's  more , the fans had total faith in the manager and they were rewarded for that faith.

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59 minutes ago, TRO said:

and you don't trade in them....people who live in glass houses......

I have expectations of a sort....I want to see the kids come on.....I want to see someone up front who can head the ball, (if our intention is to use crosses) and hold off centre halves to bring in midfielders. I want to see a robust Centre half signed....( wishful thinking maybe)

I am not desperate to keep Bruce, but desperate to not go backwards.....If we can realistically have any hope of doing better, I am all ears.

The financial situation has implications, I am unsure to what DEGREE those will impact on the playing side....hence my gravitation to a man who has improved us thus far ( despite failing in his quest to get us up)and understands those financial implications.

Repairing the damage, rebuilding the team under tight constraints and re- appraising the kids in a championship environment.

Tell me.

Why did Fulham not sack Jokanovic 2016/17?....Playoffs

Why Did Cardiff not sack Warnock 2016/17?.....13th

Maybe because they didn't  have the expectation Bruce had. 

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The last time we were struggling with the finances we were calling for Lambert to be sacked. Lambert went and so did we not long afterwards. We need stability, whether we like his football or not. Bruce offers continuity at a time when nobody really knows what the f**k is going on. Once the bank balance is sorted, let's look at the manager then. 

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2 minutes ago, villarocker said:

The last time we were struggling with the finances we were calling for Lambert to be sacked. Lambert went and so did we not long afterwards. We need stability, whether we like his football or not. Bruce offers continuity at a time when nobody really knows what the f**k is going on. Once the bank balance is sorted, let's look at the manager then. 

There is something simply stable about his face, it's so craggy, and uneven, but you just feel if you rolled against it you would come to a standstill. Bruce embodies stability - he will not be manager in 3 years time but he will on reflection be the 'man' who stopped villa from going any lower and I genuinely believe he will be remembered for this, fondly. 

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16 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Maybe because they didn't  have the expectation Bruce had. 

They would have been wrong to sack them regardless.

Cardiff and Fulham both improved under their managers after keeping them. I think we can do the same even with the new climate. 

It's so easy to look at Bournemouth/Huddersfield and so on and say 'we should do that'. Everyone remembers the successes but nobody remembers the other dozen + examples of clubs going for youthful coaches that failed. 

Whatever people say about Bruce he did get us 4th and bar one shit goal we were as effective as Fulham were...they weren't all over us by any means (as in making chances). It was a tight game. 

That compared to the season before is enough for me to be ok for him staying on. It wasn't perfect but it certainly doesn't warrant what seems to be genuine hatred on here. The improvement under Bruce was huge from the shit we had endured for the previous five plus years. 

Edited by praisedmambo
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3 minutes ago, praisedmambo said:

The improvement under Bruce was huge from the shit we had endured for the previous five plus years. 

To be fair, the previous five plus years we were in the Premier League not the fizzy pop league with the dross that occupies it. It would take a manager of absolute shitness to turn in worse performances in such an inferior environment!

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Just now, pacbuddies said:

To be fair, the previous five plus years we were in the Premier League not the fizzy pop league with the dross that occupies it. It would take a manager of absolute shitness to turn in worse performances in such an inferior environment!

You know what I mean. We as a club were going the direction of Sunderland and others before them. Di Matteo didn't stop that decline when he was managing us in the 'fizzy pop league' even though it was so easy, as you say! We were rotten back then in ways we're not now (well, we'll find out as time goes on but we certainly saw a renewed spirit last year, and an effective team). He has without doubt improved things. 

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2 hours ago, Jareth said:

I have to ask, as it is clear to you now that basically everybody has failed, and let us just accept that - but come kick-off of the new season, are you prepared to accept the past as failure and judge the now and the future on its own terms and misgivings? 

Why would you want me to do that? No one who continues to support bruce forgets his past and judges the now. If they did, they wouldn't keep going on about 4 promotions. 

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2 hours ago, TRO said:

and you don't trade in them....people who live in glass houses......

I have expectations of a sort....I want to see the kids come on.....I want to see someone up front who can head the ball, (if our intention is to use crosses) and hold off centre halves to bring in midfielders. I want to see a robust Centre half signed....( wishful thinking maybe)

I am not desperate to keep Bruce, but desperate to not go backwards.....If we can realistically have any hope of doing better, I am all ears.

The financial situation has implications, I am unsure to what DEGREE those will impact on the playing side....hence my gravitation to a man who has improved us thus far ( despite failing in his quest to get us up)and understands those financial implications.

Repairing the damage, rebuilding the team under tight constraints and re- appraising the kids in a championship environment.

Tell me.

Why did Fulham not sack Jokanovic 2016/17?....Playoffs

Why Did Cardiff not sack Warnock 2016/17?.....13th

Probably because neither club spent the resources to make automatic promotion the target and therefore neither manager failed. 

Pretty useless argument. So every manager given time succeeds? Shame you didn't think that when RDM was here. Were you banging on for mcleish to get more years?

So what is the aim under Bruce then. We now have got to a point where after failing to meet the targets set, you are happy with a manager if he gets a striker to head the ball. Its actually laughable. What a dream situation he is created for himself. 

 

 

Edited by DCJonah

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1 hour ago, villarocker said:

The last time we were struggling with the finances we were calling for Lambert to be sacked. Lambert went and so did we not long afterwards. We need stability, whether we like his football or not. Bruce offers continuity at a time when nobody really knows what the f**k is going on. Once the bank balance is sorted, let's look at the manager then. 

We were going down with lambert. There was nothing stable about us. 

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