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Steve Bruce


Demitri_C

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30 minutes ago, punkiller1981 said:

I don’t know why but if Bruce stays on I feel more confident he will work better with no budget than when he was pissing money up the wall on Glenn whelan. No idea why no facts to base that on, just a feeling.

How much is Glenn Whelan on?

He cost £1 million

He was largely decent for us

Why he is always the scapegoat and a example of profligate spending?

McCormack, Tishboloa, Hogan, and Lansbury are far better examples of money being wasted on limited returns so far. That's close to 30 mil for about 10  goals.

Edited by The Fun Factory
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38 minutes ago, Cjay said:

Someone else said he didnt play the kids, i don't know if he does or not. 

But how many academy kids has he blooded?

25 appearances for Davis, is he the only one whose been a semi regular since bruce arrived?

If you do need to tighten the purse string will Bruce use the academy?

 

He gave a couple of lads games in League Cup and they impressed enough to be given a chance but never got near the first team. Grealish was only regular outfield player under 25 last season

I wouldnt have faith in him doing it and was my main opposition to him getting the job nearly 2 years ago that he would neglect youth and go for old and overpaid talent

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30 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

You're on the right track.

"If you don't have the sun in your eyes, you ain't been hoofin' hard enough!"

Seriously though, the most frustrating aspect last season was the contrast in performances and results and our indecision to get on the front foot and really drive a game.

POF first and second half a prime example. Absolutely dismal first half only to have the better second half and no one could've said we didn't deserve a goal or two had it gone in.

Our squad was the strongest in the division, by some margin, yet you wouldn't of guessed it in a lot of matches, even matches we bagged the three points in.

Cardiff and Wolves were better across the season and Fulham, once their team found it's feet not only finished in a way that surmounted us during the home and away, showed the work they had put in on tactical approach first half in the POF, where we, true to form, were largely reliant on the individual showmanship that our squad possessed at this level when we decided to join the game that was underway, a Jack Grealish masterclass run our best effort, most impressive anyway. Yet it was Fulham who knocked it about as a team, worked a high percentage shot, took the lead and ultimately won the fixture.

 

Let me give you the essence of my opinion.

I don't know if we had the best squad or not or the best team....we had our good moments, but we had bad ones too....I guess consistency gets you over the line.

but let me highlight some dark moments.

against QPR at home....we were dismal.

We started the rot by Ryan Manning a raw irish midfielder of 21 years of age (5'11")beating John Terry at the near post for their first goal....that started the surrender of initiative.

Matt Smith their centre forward went on to out muscle our 2 and Eberechi Eze and Massimo Luongo took control of midfield mainly due to quickness to the ball, effervescence and intensity.

They had players that were beating ours to the ball, too often and the result was inevitable.

In this league, you have to compete in ALL the games, on the grass and in the air.....we didn't do quite enough over the season.

ps its a team game, but i still look for individual battles, they have to win them.

Edited by TRO
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17 minutes ago, TheAuthority said:

I hope it didn't come across as critical.

Whisper it around these parts but I think he should stick around and the football isn't that bad at all. The squad age wasn't ideal but it's always easy in hindsight to say what he should have done. I think all of his decisions made sense and there is always an rational argument for the decisions Bruce makes. 

In regards to youth players, it's his nature to go with tried and tested. It's just how he is. It's not necessarily a negative thing.

I agree.

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12 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

This post caught my eye.

His ambitions now will be to join the manager's `go to ' rota with Pulis etc. Best he will ever be able to do now.

Biggest job he ever had, Matty, he said so himself, and he failed miserably.

biggest job or not , he has had success before villa and i would happliy wager he will after

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If the intent/remit next season is promotion then i’m dead against keeping Bruce. He has already failed twice doing it his way.

If however the finances at the club are as bad as it is rumoured and promotion is going to be replaced by stability as the remit in the Championship next season then I feel there is a better argument for keeping Bruce although I’m still not sure he has the ability to forge the younger players into a competitive team?

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24 minutes ago, TRO said:

Let me give you the essence of my opinion.

I don't know if we had the best squad or not or the best team....we had our good moments, but we had bad ones too....I guess consistency gets you over the line.

but let me highlight some dark moments.

against QPR at home....we were dismal.

We started the rot by Ryan Manning a raw irish midfielder of 21 years of age (5'11")beating John Terry at the near post for their first goal....that started the surrender of initiative.

Matt Smith their centre forward went on to out muscle our 2 and Eberechi Eze and Massimo Luongo took control of midfield mainly due to quickness to the ball, effervescence and intensity.

They had players that were beating ours to the ball, too often and the result was inevitable.

In this league, you have to compete in ALL the games, on the grass and in the air.....we didn't do quite enough over the season.

ps its a team game, but i still look for individual battles, they have to win them.

A team is just a collection of individuals working as a whole, so you're damn right the individual battle will determine the outcome of a teams performance.

That's what I'm saying too. QPR, Bristol, Wolves, Cardiff, Norwich. We show our strengths in one and not the reverse. I don't care that we didn't have Grealish at times, or Kodjia.

We had the strongest group of individuals, we didn't have the strongest team. I think that goes to either Fulham or Wolves. Perhaps Cardiff if you take the perspective that they had the weakest group of individuals of the top four, and what they achieved.

I will have to disagree with you regarding tactics. They are a form of strategy and are not dependent on your opponent, necessarily. It is by definition an action or strategy that is carefully planned to achieve a specific end. So really all Bruce's decisions need be taken in to account, not exclusively how he sets up against an opponent and why.

And this is where he lacks for me, tactically. We all have off days, the players, against QPR that day might've been outfought.

Bruce, for me, spent money on good individuals, but failed to make the most of them in a team setting, at times failing to put together team performances indicative of the quality of cogs in the wheel. It wasn't fully operational. Bristol and Wolves, we saw how dominant this group could be against the top competitors. Burton we showed intent. Middlesbrough we showed tactical nous and nullified them well, and scored a goal, enough. But for large parts of the season this team failed to show me they were a cut above.

I'm not calling Bruce terrible, as I've said I backed him all season and had confidence in getting promoted under him. But I did so on the basis of being a supportive supporter and how strong our squad was in comparison to the rest, I also knew Bruce would compete. But I saw nothing from him that would suggest improvement on his flaws and it was a bit of a slog. The sets we played were nothing inspiring. Credit to him though, we did grow as a team, to the point of being the 4th best in the league. Nothing dramatically poor about that. Blips and plateaus are inevitable and perhaps with a bit more luck, another factor, we might've gone up.

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4 hours ago, TRO said:

I agree with that......and that's where he has cocked up.

Not tactics like some allude too.

We just simply did not have the shape right....square pegs and all that, was not right.

For what it’s worth TRO.  You were thinking we were missing the right player.  I was saying that we weren’t playing the right tactics to match the players we had.  I called it alignment and you, frustratingly, responded like I was mad.  There’s two ways to address and fix the same dilemma.  

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Bruce experience will help next season.. with the young lads.. but my fear he will just sign some pls cheap players instead. If he plays our youth I'd be happy he stays... But I dont think he would.

I'd get Terry in as manager. Make sure if we get Chelsea in the cup he doesn't walk out on us in that match!

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3 minutes ago, KSV said:

I'd get Terry in as manager. Make sure if we get Chelsea in the cup he doesn't walk out on us in that match!

A player/coach role isn't a bad shout. Sadly he could earn a fortune playing someone else so there's no chance he'll be involved with us next season.

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1 hour ago, TheAuthority said:

A player/coach role isn't a bad shout. Sadly he could earn a fortune playing someone else so there's no chance he'll be involved with us next season.

True but he doesn’t need the money so depends on how keen he would be on such a challenging role as his first managerial appointment. I think his playing days are over and he will retire to take a job in management. Chelsea U18’s job is the other possible route for him.

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9 hours ago, mattyvilla said:

biggest job or not , he has had success before villa and i would happliy wager he will after

Any success he had before coming to us, although it got him the job, ultimately meant nothing as he failed with us.

Any success he has after he leaves us means nothing to me.

I am an Aston Villa supporter, not a Bruce supporter.

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10 hours ago, mattyvilla said:

biggest job or not , he has had success before villa and i would happliy wager he will after

Not many do. Our last 5 managers 3 are unemployed, one is failing in MLS and other manages Scotland

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9 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

For what it’s worth TRO.  You were thinking we were missing the right player.  I was saying that we weren’t playing the right tactics to match the players we had.  I called it alignment and you, frustratingly, responded like I was mad.  There’s two ways to address and fix the same dilemma.  

sorry, if I responded that way.....sometimes things can be lost in translation or interpretation.....sometimes folk use different terms for the same thing?

I accept, we maybe saying the same thing in slightly different ways.

Smithy, I know its easy to look at others and copy.....but all season, I thought we needed a guy in the middle at No 9 who could head the ball and keep his position and take out / occupy the opposing Centre halves and at the same time give snoddy and Albert something static to aim for ( when i say static i mean relatively)....and play in the midfielders......just like Mitrovic has done.....They wasn't the same team before him.

We had the same in 80/81 Withe was the last piece in the jigsaw.

What we have done, its just go for players with numbers next to their name.....nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't tell you the full story.....our guys are not comfortable with the muscle game, they are more like inside forwards of yesteryear.....fine players on form, we was just missing the right type.....we have too many the same or similar.

 

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I agree.  But here’s the thing.  We didn’t have Mitrovic.  And Davis wasn’t matured enough in that role to play with consistency.  

A really good manager is not stymied by that.  He changes up the tactics and strategy to let the “inside forward” attack work. Plenty of great teams do it.  

I doubt our next manager next season will get his pick of player types   He’ll have to make things work with what he can get   

(And if you thought that was the problem all along, why did you spend so much time blaming players that didn’t get stuck in   Or didn’t challenge physically.  Or didn’t put in enough effort?   None of them failed to sign the needed teammate.)

 

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On 09/06/2018 at 12:36, srsmithusa said:

I agree.  But here’s the thing.  We didn’t have Mitrovic.  And Davis wasn’t matured enough in that role to play with consistency.  

A really good manager is not stymied by that.  He changes up the tactics and strategy to let the “inside forward” attack work. Plenty of great teams do it.  

I doubt our next manager next season will get his pick of player types   He’ll have to make things work with what he can get   

(And if you thought that was the problem all along, why did you spend so much time blaming players that didn’t get stuck in   Or didn’t challenge physically.  Or didn’t put in enough effort?   None of them failed to sign the needed teammate.)

 

Well at the very highest level, some teams don't play with a player, i am suggesting, they focus on movement and use a deep lying center forward to move the centre halves around, but perhaps ours are not good enough for that.

I agree, I think he should have signed one, but he did try Ulluoa but failed.....I don't know, perhaps he tried hard and couldn't get one, its opinions though isn't it.

I understand your view.....But believe me.....without Sessegnon,Cairney and Mitrovic..Jokanovic would not have got Fulham Up.

I heard Pepe say it the other day...." you have to have the players".( in his usual low profile way).....Yes its the manager and owners job to get them....and the managers job to blend them in to a galvanised unit.

I do get the notion that once you have not got them to your liking, you have to do the best you can......thats why it takes some managers longer than others.

a) had they had a good mix of players when they arrived or not.

b) They have to try and bring in the right ones....and that can vary in difficulty depending on circumstances.

Where I think we differ slightly is this......If I see a gap where i think we need a certain type of player and I think its affecting the team and low and behold so does the manager and he tries to get one to fit, but fails due to challenging circumstances.....I find it hard to criticise the man, from my point of view.

Despite my comments on the No9 role.....I liked Grabban, I think he is a decent player, but I thought his overall game was slightly different to what I originally thought it would be.

ps  because I mentioned that problem, doesn't mean I think there was only one.....its just the one I chose to talk about...its wasn't mutually exclusive.

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13 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

I understand your view.....But believe me.....without Sessegnon,Cairney and Mitrovic..Jokanovic would not have got Fulham Up.

.

would Steve Bruce have got them players up? 

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12 hours ago, A'Villan said:

A team is just a collection of individuals working as a whole, so you're damn right the individual battle will determine the outcome of a teams performance.

That's what I'm saying too. QPR, Bristol, Wolves, Cardiff, Norwich. We show our strengths in one and not the reverse. I don't care that we didn't have Grealish at times, or Kodjia.

We had the strongest group of individuals, we didn't have the strongest team. I think that goes to either Fulham or Wolves. Perhaps Cardiff if you take the perspective that they had the weakest group of individuals of the top four, and what they achieved.

I will have to disagree with you regarding tactics. They are a form of strategy and are not dependent on your opponent, necessarily. It is by definition an action or strategy that is carefully planned to achieve a specific end. So really all Bruce's decisions need be taken in to account, not exclusively how he sets up against an opponent and why.

And this is where he lacks for me, tactically. We all have off days, the players, against QPR that day might've been outfought.

Bruce, for me, spent money on good individuals, but failed to make the most of them in a team setting, at times failing to put together team performances indicative of the quality of cogs in the wheel. It wasn't fully operational. Bristol and Wolves, we saw how dominant this group could be against the top competitors. Burton we showed intent. Middlesbrough we showed tactical nous and nullified them well, and scored a goal, enough. But for large parts of the season this team failed to show me they were a cut above.

I'm not calling Bruce terrible, as I've said I backed him all season and had confidence in getting promoted under him. But I did so on the basis of being a supportive supporter and how strong our squad was in comparison to the rest, I also knew Bruce would compete. But I saw nothing from him that would suggest improvement on his flaws and it was a bit of a slog. The sets we played were nothing inspiring. Credit to him though, we did grow as a team, to the point of being the 4th best in the league. Nothing dramatically poor about that. Blips and plateaus are inevitable and perhaps with a bit more luck, another factor, we might've gone up.

Can't Argue with that AV

The 64 million dollar question now is......Do we dump him and bring in someone with attributes he doesn't possess.....and at the same token, lose what he had, because the new guy hasn't got.

In which case we could be back to square one, but in a different form.....just different critics.

Which ever case , it seems like another roll of the dice.

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2 hours ago, TRO said:

The 64 million dollar question now is......Do we dump him and bring in someone with attributes he doesn't possess.....and at the same token, lose what he had, because the new guy hasn't got.

What are these attributes that make Bruce such a good manager, that aren't possible to get with someone else?

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