Popular Post Rob182 Posted February 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 14, 2018 I’m seeing lots of posts about all the criticism being justified, which I’m struggling to agree with. The criticism wasn’t just ‘I’d like him gone’ with no anger or emotion, it was often aggressive and belittling of both Bruce and the people who dared to say that they didn’t think Bruce should get the sack ‘just yet’. I’m seeing a lot of face-saving from the people who could not see any way back for the team, when many others could see positives in our play and could see through the black & white of ‘win’, ‘lose’ or ‘draw’. Someone’s opinion, posted without aggression or ridicule towards others is fine. But that wasn’t what was going on here a lot of the time. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Rob182 said: I’m seeing lots of posts about all the criticism being justified, which I’m struggling to agree with. The criticism wasn’t just ‘I’d like him gone’ with no anger or emotion, it was often aggressive and belittling of both Bruce and the people who dared to say that they didn’t think Bruce should get the sack ‘just yet’. Arse covering. Assuming this kind of form continues and we get second place, which looks entirely possible, then the criticism wasn't justified. Statements like "current form doesn't mean it was wrong to call for his head" are nonsense. Of course it was wrong. (And I'm including myself in that. Twice this season I've called for his head, and I can happily say I was stupidly wrong both times) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 14, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14, 2018 It's also quite telling that the criticism has gone from "Bruce should be sacked because we're not in the playoffs" to "Bruce should be sacked because we're not in the automatic places" to "Bruce should be sacked at the end of the season because he's not good enough for the Prem" Kind of shows some people will never be happy with him in charge. I'm sure if he's keeping us in the Prem next season it will move to "Bruce should be sacked because he's not good enough to get us top 10" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 There have definitely been two occasions where even the most ‘supportive’ fans could have started to question whether Bruce should stay. The first was early last year when we went on that terrible run, but then many of us thought it was too soon to sack him, that he had just brought in a lot of players and he had previously put us in a good run of form following his appointment The second was at New Year when, again, we lost/drew a heap of winnable games. But, as previously, Bruce had overseen an unbeaten spell beforehand, and we were still only a few points away from where we needed to be (playoffs) and a few more points from where we wanted to be (automatic places). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dave J Posted February 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Arse covering. Assuming this kind of form continues and we get second place, which looks entirely possible, then the criticism wasn't justified. Statements like "current form doesn't mean it was wrong to call for his head" are nonsense. Of course it was wrong. (And I'm including myself in that. Twice this season I've called for his head, and I can happily say I was stupidly wrong both times) Absolutely not - you are wrong in my opinion - everyone is entitled to their view and many people on here called for his head and with justifiable reasoning. for what's it's worth I believe he would have gone last season if the club had not already sacked one manager. if you are referring to the vitriol of abuse that you feel was levelled at SB i might be inclined to agree with you - but one has to nor should they defend their view of calling for change either last season or up to Christmas- quite rightly now I suggest most people myself included are backing him and the club to get over the line - but you are totally wrong to use the term arse covering - I do wonder if you forget at times this is a forum where all views should be shared freely without fear of this type of response 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Even if we hit a bad patch of not winning a game in 3 I think its safe to say it would be absolutely pointless removing bruce. Bruce stays until the summer regardless what happens from now until the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Just now, Dave J said: Absolutely not - you are wrong in my opinion - everyone is entitled to their view and many people on here called for his head and with justifiable reasoning. for what's it's worth I believe he would have gone last season if the club had not already sacked one manager. if you are referring to the vitriol of abuse that you feel was levelled at SB i might be inclined to agree with you - but one has to nor should they defend their view of calling for change either last season or up to Christmas- quite rightly now I suggest most people myself included are backing him and the club to get over the line - but you are totally wrong to use the term arse covering - I do wonder if you forget at times this is a forum where all views should be shared freely without fear of this type of response I think its admirable that xia and wyness ignored the fan pressure and stuck with bruce. It has reaped the rewards and bruce I think wants to repay that fair by taking us back to where we belong. Thank god we didn't do a blose and sack rowett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It's also quite telling that the criticism has gone from "Bruce should be sacked because we're not in the playoffs" to "Bruce should be sacked because we're not in the automatic places" to "Bruce should be sacked at the end of the season because he's not good enough for the Prem" Kind of shows some people will never be happy with him in charge. I'm sure if he's keeping us in the Prem next season it will move to "Bruce should be sacked because he's not good enough to get us top 10" I’ve seen the question asked a few times around whether Bruce should stay next season, should we get promoted. I think I’m coming at that question from a slightly different angle to others. I think I would want him here because he’s the type of manager that a newly promoted team needs. Working from the back, going with what works best. However, the thing that worries me slightly, and has made me want to consider giving him the boot, is that Dr X is probably going to give him a reasonably sized transfer budget. I don’t really want Bruce to be the man that spends £60m, £70m, £80m?, whatever is deemed to be a good amount to turn a Championship team into a Premier League one. It would feel like O’Neill all over again, just with an even more overinflated market. My dream scenario would be that we bring in a manager with fresh ideas and the ability to tempt ‘hot property’ up and coming players to us. But I realise that’s unlikely, so I’m happy for Bruce to try to cement our place in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Just now, Demitri_C said: I think its admirable that xia and wyness ignored the fan pressure and stuck with bruce. It has reaped the rewards and bruce I think wants to repay that fair by taking us back to where we belong. Thank god we didn't do a blose and sack rowett That's a different argument entirely and you could say that the club chose the right course now - however I feel that it is wrong to criticise those who called for his head before Christmas- there were many on here doing this and if the club had moved to depose of him as manager - I don't think many would have viewed this as a major loss imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Even if we hit a bad patch of not winning a game in 3 I think its safe to say it would be absolutely pointless removing bruce. Bruce stays until the summer regardless what happens from now until the summer. Yes I would agree unless of course the wheels totally come off and I think pretty quickly a groundswell of change would also follow - not that I think it will now - once a juggernaut of a club get on a roll it's often difficult to halt momentum ( he says nervously) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 41 minutes ago, tomav84 said: interesting point...i can see you being in the minority if we don't go up. for me it would depend on the circumstances, if we just drop to playoffs, and lose playoff final unluckily i would say keep him. a total capitulation where we don't make playoffs would be somewhat unforgivable however That is fair, and in that situation, a lot of people would feel that way, and I would be among the minority who would not count himself among them. Consider this. If a drastic capitulation does happen and we don't make the play offs, or even if we lose in the playoffs, with the progress we have made with the team so far, are we truly better off with a brand new manager who feels he needs to start from scratch, or to stick with Steve Bruce, who knows the team well? Bearing in mind also, new managers tend to be a bit of a lottery. We might get one who hits the ground running, or we could have one that is a Redknapp in disguise that leaves a path of destruction from the inside out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It's also quite telling that the criticism has gone from "Bruce should be sacked because we're not in the playoffs" to "Bruce should be sacked because we're not in the automatic places" to "Bruce should be sacked at the end of the season because he's not good enough for the Prem" Kind of shows some people will never be happy with him in charge. I'm sure if he's keeping us in the Prem next season it will move to "Bruce should be sacked because he's not good enough to get us top 10" Show me a Villa fan who doesn't think we should be in the top 10? this suggests you would be happy loitering around in the bottom of the table - I have news for you this doesn't extend to the masses if it does you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dave J said: Show me a Villa fan who doesn't think we should be in the top 10? this suggests you would be happy loitering around in the bottom of the table - I have news for you this doesn't extend to the masses if it does you Yep, that's me. I don't believe we should be top 10 in the Premier League right now. If we finished higher than 15th in the PL next season, I could be satisfied with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 18 minutes ago, Dave J said: Absolutely not - you are wrong in my opinion - everyone is entitled to their view and many people on here called for his head and with justifiable reasoning. for what's it's worth I believe he would have gone last season if the club had not already sacked one manager. if you are referring to the vitriol of abuse that you feel was levelled at SB i might be inclined to agree with you - but one has to nor should they defend their view of calling for change either last season or up to Christmas- quite rightly now I suggest most people myself included are backing him and the club to get over the line - but you are totally wrong to use the term arse covering - I do wonder if you forget at times this is a forum where all views should be shared freely without fear of this type of response Absolutely this, there have been a few throat jumpers on here when the dark days of Decembers results where at large and it was very much childish and totally uncalled for. Usually the same people that troll places like twitter etc. - easy when hiding behind a keyboard! Fwiw and back on topic, We are back where we belong and I have every faith SB will get us promoted. Since the turn of the year we are the best team in this league and it has been a joy to watch. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted February 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Dave J said: Show me a Villa fan who doesn't think we should be in the top 10? this suggests you would be happy loitering around in the bottom of the table - I have news for you this doesn't extend to the masses if it does you There was a debate a few pages back - which to be fair Dave, I don't think you were part of - that was saying that 7th down essentially is the bottom of the table. Nobody outside the top 6 has a positive goal difference now. Of the top 6, Arsenal has the worst GD on +15. They are 11 goals worse off than the next best team, Chelsea. From Arsenal downwards, the next best team is Leicester on -1, a whopping 16 goals worse off. Leicester, who are in 8th, are only 9 points off the drop zone. Probably enough to be safe you'd think. A couple of places lower, though, and anyone from 10th down can be 19th in two games time. As a club, based on our history, stature, etc, yeah I think we should be top 10. But the PL is absolutely broken now. Look how much Everton have shelled out, and they're still not even safe. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, AJ said: Yep, that's me. I don't believe we should be top 10 in the Premier League right now. If we finished higher than 15th in the PL next season, I could be satisfied with that. That's a different argument- right now of course you are correct- but let's imagine we are back in the prem - a club of our size and resource, fan base and so forth are we really to believe we would be happy not once again pushing for a top six berth ? i have followed us since 1976 and this has always been my belief- although as you say not right now in this moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I think the Dr will not piss about and will want to get into that top 6 immediately, if it is not achieved in our first season back I believe he will make sure it is in our 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted February 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I think the Dr will not piss about and will want to get into that top 6 immediately, if it is not achieved in our first season back I believe he will make sure it is in our 2nd. From what I've heard, it's from a reliable source but I'm certainly going to wait and see, is that the good Dr might be all fart and no shit. I bloody hope not, or Steve Bruce is the least of our troubles when we're back in the PL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Dave J said: In my view I feel that once a season of re-establishing ourselves back in the prem ( hopefully) our thoughts will again turn to aspiring for a top six finish - this is Aston Villa and I believe the majority of fans see us as a top six club in the grander scheme of things as no doubt Everton fans also do - despite their current circumstances- now if this is obtainable time will tell - but I do feel this is where most of us feel we should be operating at. Not sure about top 6 for a while to be honest - they all have huge money and attendances in comparison to us and similar to Everton I see 7th or 8 th place being as good as it gets for a long time to come . i seriously doubt xia has the cash to aim for a top 6 place anytime soon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 34 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: From what I've heard, it's from a reliable source but I'm certainly going to wait and see, is that the good Dr might be all fart and no shit. I bloody hope not, or Steve Bruce is the least of our troubles when we're back in the PL. This suprises me a little NV and definately worth taking with a pinch of salt and waiting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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