Steve Bruce

[mjmooney]

4 hours ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

Manager of the month for January, and well deserved.

Legendarily, the kiss of death for the next match. 

[AvfcRigo82]

39 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

That is fantastic for him and us. A couple more would be nice.

His troubles at home will be more important to him, of course, but at some time he will be able to look back at it with satisfaction.

You will all know I am not a fan, but he certainly deserves that accolade.

I believe he will take us up, probably automatic, so job will be done, and no one can argue with that, and he will have to be accorded due credit, even by we who have doubted him. 

 

Very much second this.

I am so pleased and relieved that we have turned a corner in the manner that we have

What a fantasic achievement and well done Steve for winning Manager of the month, it is very much deserved and I hope you go on to grab Febuary's too.

Well done all round.  

[striker]

Great for Bruce especially at a time such as this. Long way to go yet though.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, vreitti said:

Hindsight is 20/20...

It is you are quite right.....but some are doubters and some are believers.....but hey I had a wobble, so not trying to be smart.

My overall stance always was... big job, needs time.

The fact that some of the football was pants in the past, particularly, was because the job was only in progress.....and it still is....just that we have got further down the line, so its coming across as more acceptable, in the main.

 

Edited February 9, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

That is fantastic for him and us. A couple more would be nice.

His troubles at home will be more important to him, of course, but at some time he will be able to look back at it with satisfaction.

You will all know I am not a fan, but he certainly deserves that accolade.

I believe he will take us up, probably automatic, so job will be done, and no one can argue with that, and he will have to be accorded due credit, even by we who have doubted him. 

 

That is an interesting comment.....I'm not sure I am in the sense of the word, depends on the context.

I always felt a need to defend him against certain fans views of him.....at the end of the day its their opinions granted, but I thought some of the stuff was premature.

I think he is a well rounded, ( no sarcasm) steady manager.....a man for all seasons....not flash or flamboyant, just solid and robust operator that has a way of getting the job done.

I think he was just right for us in the state we was in.....I also think he has managed admirably under the spell of FFP too.

Edited February 9, 2018 by TRO

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

That is an interesting comment.....I'm not sure I am in the sense of the word, depends on the context.

I always felt a need to defend him against certain fans views of him.....at the end of the day its their opinions granted, but I thought some of the stuff was premature.

I think he is a well rounded, ( no sarcasm) steady manager.....a man for all seasons....not flash or flamboyant, just solid and robust operator that has a way of getting the job done.

I think he was just right for us in the state we was in.....I also think he has managed admirably under the spell of FFP too.

Oh, there are lots of people, not just in the football world but covering a wide range of professions, that I am not a fan of, but at my age it is a privilege that I enjoy, especially when I can shock my children rigid. 

[ciggiesnbeer]

20 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Legendarily, the kiss of death for the next match. 

Steve Bruce is not bound by the rules of gods or mortal men. He wins when he likes, regardless of what the fates may conspire.

[TheStagMan]

22 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

How have you arrived at that conclusion?

Surely, the situation right now dictates that to have sacked him at any point prior to now would almost certainly have been to the detriment of the club?

So since you can't let this go..........

How do you know that it would be to the detriment of the club? You are making things up there. Yes, Bruce has turned things around and I applaud him for that, BUT you absolutely CANNOT say with any level of certainty that another manager would have us in a worse position (just as you maintain that we cannot say that they wouldn't). Just because you think something it does not make it so. 

The performances up to the point of the last 10 games or so have simply not been good enough. Had he been sacked, despite the whining of his mates in the media it would have been justified. 

Now hopefully what we are seeing is the future and is sustainable, rather than a short lived run of form like last year (it certainly does not feel like last year). This shows that the decision not to sack him was a good one (at the moment). That does not equate to sacking him being a bad decision (as another manager may well have us in the same or better position). Unfortunately we will never know how the alternatives would have panned out.

However - despite the great run of form, we are still not meeting the target of automatic promotion - although we are close. The job is not done yet and there is a lot of work to be done, at the moment we are in with a decent shout of second and first is achievable (although unlikely) - so until then, I and others who doubt his ability (with this club) will continue to worry until we are promoted - although we will enjoy the wins and good performances along the way.

If we get promoted, fair play, I for one will admit I was wrong and will thank him. We can then start the debate about whether we think he should manage us in the prem.

 

So a direct question to you

If we have a fall off in form towards the end of the season and make the play-offs, but do not go up, or we finish lower than 6th - what would your position be then?

Edited February 10, 2018 by TheStagMan

[Villarocker]

Well done Brucey - you deserve that award 

Now, come on Villa. Beat The Blues tomorrow and give the man a much needed boost in these trying times. 

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, TheStagMan said:

So since you can't let this go..........

How do you know that it would be to the detriment of the club? You are making things up there. Yes, Bruce has turned things around and I applaud him for that, BUT you absolutely CANNOT say with any level of certainty that another manager would have us in a worse position (just as you maintain that we cannot say that they wouldn't). Just because you think something it does not make it so. 

The performances up to the point of the last 10 games or so have simply not been good enough. Had he been sacked, despite the whining of his mates in the media it would have been justified. 

Now hopefully what we are seeing is the future and is sustainable, rather than a short lived run of form like last year (it certainly does not feel like last year). This shows that the decision not to sack him was a good one (at the moment). That does not equate to sacking him being a bad decision (as another manager may well have us in the same or better position). Unfortunately we will never know how the alternatives would have panned out.

However - despite the great run of form, we are still not meeting the target of automatic promotion - although we are close. The job is not done yet and there is a lot of work to be done, at the moment we are in with a decent shout of second and first is achievable (although unlikely) - so until then, I and others who doubt his ability (with this club) will continue to worry until we are promoted - although we will enjoy the wins and good performances along the way.

If we get promoted, fair play, I for one will admit I was wrong and will thank him. We can then start the debate about whether we think he should manage us in the prem.

 

So a direct question to you

If we have a fall off in form towards the end of the season and make the play-offs, but do not go up, or we finish lower than 6th - what would your position be then?

Hooray hooray hooray. Someone has finally said what I couldn't without getting in trouble.  

[NurembergVillan]

1 hour ago, TheStagMan said:

However - despite the great run of form, we are still not meeting the target of automatic promotion - although we are close.

Name a team in the division that has met the target of automatic promotion and I'll grant you three wishes.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Hooray hooray hooray. Someone has finally said what I couldn't without getting in trouble.  

In my case was more like couldn't be bothered to, because alot of these things you would assume are quite straightforward unless someone just wants to have an argument for the sake of it. lol

Then again, thats what fan forums are for I guess.

[srsmithusa]

3 hours ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Steve Bruce is not bound by the rules of gods or mortal men. He wins when he likes, regardless of what the fates may conspire.

I just wish he had wanted to win more in 2017.  

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, NurembergVillan said:

Name a team in the division that has met the target of automatic promotion and I'll grant you three wishes.

Are we to assume that Wolves could still finish 7th?

[srsmithusa]

3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

So since you can't let this go..........

How do you know that it would be to the detriment of the club? You are making things up there. Yes, Bruce has turned things around and I applaud him for that, BUT you absolutely CANNOT say with any level of certainty that another manager would have us in a worse position (just as you maintain that we cannot say that they wouldn't). Just because you think something it does not make it so. 

The performances up to the point of the last 10 games or so have simply not been good enough. Had he been sacked, despite the whining of his mates in the media it would have been justified. 

Now hopefully what we are seeing is the future and is sustainable, rather than a short lived run of form like last year (it certainly does not feel like last year). This shows that the decision not to sack him was a good one (at the moment). That does not equate to sacking him being a bad decision (as another manager may well have us in the same or better position). Unfortunately we will never know how the alternatives would have panned out.

However - despite the great run of form, we are still not meeting the target of automatic promotion - although we are close. The job is not done yet and there is a lot of work to be done, at the moment we are in with a decent shout of second and first is achievable (although unlikely) - so until then, I and others who doubt his ability (with this club) will continue to worry until we are promoted - although we will enjoy the wins and good performances along the way.

If we get promoted, fair play, I for one will admit I was wrong and will thank him. We can then start the debate about whether we think he should manage us in the prem.

 

So a direct question to you

If we have a fall off in form towards the end of the season and make the play-offs, but do not go up, or we finish lower than 6th - what would your position be then?

I think I’m both less forgiving and more optimistic than this.  I will happily admit I’m in a severe minority and a bit odd.  So feel free to point out how odd I am

i think we have turned the corner.  I think Bruce is very likely to get us to automatic promotion. (See, more optimistic).  I just think he made too many errors for months on end.  I think a different management approach could have had us promoted last year.  I think a different management approach would have had us comfortably near or ahead of wolves on points right now. 

Am I right?   I can never prove it and none of you can ever prove my opinion is wrong.  I’m prognosticating on things that will never happen.  But I’ll still celebrate every win and promotion, and drink to the Villa with you.  Delighted that Bruce has done so well of late.  (Took him long enough)

if TRO thinks he’s doing well to turn us around in this time frame considering how bad were, I think he should have turned us around much faster considering the resources he had.   But turn us around (finally) he has, so I’m happy.  

[bannedfromHandV]

3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

So since you can't let this go..........

How do you know that it would be to the detriment of the club? You are making things up there. Yes, Bruce has turned things around and I applaud him for that, BUT you absolutely CANNOT say with any level of certainty that another manager would have us in a worse position (just as you maintain that we cannot say that they wouldn't). Just because you think something it does not make it so. 

The performances up to the point of the last 10 games or so have simply not been good enough. Had he been sacked, despite the whining of his mates in the media it would have been justified. 

Now hopefully what we are seeing is the future and is sustainable, rather than a short lived run of form like last year (it certainly does not feel like last year). This shows that the decision not to sack him was a good one (at the moment). That does not equate to sacking him being a bad decision (as another manager may well have us in the same or better position). Unfortunately we will never know how the alternatives would have panned out.

However - despite the great run of form, we are still not meeting the target of automatic promotion - although we are close. The job is not done yet and there is a lot of work to be done, at the moment we are in with a decent shout of second and first is achievable (although unlikely) - so until then, I and others who doubt his ability (with this club) will continue to worry until we are promoted - although we will enjoy the wins and good performances along the way.

If we get promoted, fair play, I for one will admit I was wrong and will thank him. We can then start the debate about whether we think he should manage us in the prem.

 

So a direct question to you

If we have a fall off in form towards the end of the season and make the play-offs, but do not go up, or we finish lower than 6th - what would your position be then?

If you bothered to read my posts for what they are instead of automatically looking for fault so that you can round up the posse to have a pop at me you would have seen that I quite clearly wrote "almost certainly to the detriment of the club" - I'm sure you understand what almost means so I shan't be an arse and explain it.

I do not believe, barring a miracle, that anyone would have got us promoted last season taking over at the point SB did so, that's my opinion and others will dispute it but for me after winning 1 game out of the first 11 and finding ourselves in 22nd spot with a team of individuals, half of whom didn't want to be here I personally believe it would have been beyond even the very best Managers out there.

So for me, sacking him at any point last season or during the summer wouldn't have changed anything nor helped us beyond where we are right now, i.e. in the Championship.

So, on to that, this is where the "almost certainly" bit comes into effect - we are currently 3rd, 1 point off 2nd for what it's worth. This is a division of 24 teams, we could be 2 places higher (1 of those places being a mere point away) or we could be 21 places lower, so the best ANY other Manager could have us doing right now is 2 places higher and given how strong Wolves have been do we honestly think that with a different Manager (but probably by and large, the same squad give or take one or two) we would be in 1st place? Or do we think that maybe a better Manager would have us in 2nd place? Something that is one single point away from us right now.

 

This is why I believe that it would have "ALMOST certainly been detrimental to the club" to have sacked SB at any point prior to right now.

 

Do I have blind faith in us being promoted this season? No. Do I hope and pray for it like the rest of you? Yes.

 

Are things looking pretty good right now? Yes.

 

So my apologies for finding the constant nitpicking and back-handed compliments a little frustrating but it feels completely unnecessary and obstinate at times.

Edited February 10, 2018 by bannedfromHandV

[TRO]

20 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

Oh, there are lots of people, not just in the football world but covering a wide range of professions, that I am not a fan of, but at my age it is a privilege that I enjoy, especially when I can shock my children rigid. 

me too....particularly politics.

Edited February 10, 2018 by TRO

[DaveAV1]

Like everyone else, I’m delighted with the latest run of results and it does feel like a turn around. However the general attitude on here that we are now on a march towards inevitable promotion, is a dangerous one. We have 16 games to go at the squeaky bumb end of the season. I’m happy with our team spirit and the obvious confidence that we have developed recently and hope that that will continue. Never the less some of those games were far from comfortable and Johnstone has been on man of the match form in a significant number of games this season. 

Hopefully it will be onwards and upwards from now on, especially tomorrow. But this is a tough division and it can turn round the other way as quickly as it turned the right way. UTV!!

[TRO]

4 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

So since you can't let this go..........

How do you know that it would be to the detriment of the club? You are making things up there. Yes, Bruce has turned things around and I applaud him for that, BUT you absolutely CANNOT say with any level of certainty that another manager would have us in a worse position (just as you maintain that we cannot say that they wouldn't). Just because you think something it does not make it so. 

The performances up to the point of the last 10 games or so have simply not been good enough. Had he been sacked, despite the whining of his mates in the media it would have been justified. 

Now hopefully what we are seeing is the future and is sustainable, rather than a short lived run of form like last year (it certainly does not feel like last year). This shows that the decision not to sack him was a good one (at the moment). That does not equate to sacking him being a bad decision (as another manager may well have us in the same or better position). Unfortunately we will never know how the alternatives would have panned out.

However - despite the great run of form, we are still not meeting the target of automatic promotion - although we are close. The job is not done yet and there is a lot of work to be done, at the moment we are in with a decent shout of second and first is achievable (although unlikely) - so until then, I and others who doubt his ability (with this club) will continue to worry until we are promoted - although we will enjoy the wins and good performances along the way.

If we get promoted, fair play, I for one will admit I was wrong and will thank him. We can then start the debate about whether we think he should manage us in the prem.

 

So a direct question to you

If we have a fall off in form towards the end of the season and make the play-offs, but do not go up, or we finish lower than 6th - what would your position be then?

I think you make some good points, difficult to argue against reason, but I would ask you to consider one thing.

These jobs take time, especially ones like us and Sunderland ( but thats their problem).....Last season was a WIP and it was the very beginning of the rebuild, so is it not feasible, we would still be up and down, with players settling in?......personally, I think the start of the season was much like last season, we had still not recovered, particularly the mental state of things the confidence was still brittle.....many factors have contributed to the turn around, Steve Bruce has just guided and managed those factors, but the factors themselves relate to many folk.

If anything, I think the differences in opinion about Steve Bruce emanate from the disparity of how long this job/rebuild is expected take......some thought it would take a few weeks, some thought  2 or 3 transfer windows, that in itself put an expectation on the manager, that he could or could not match up to.

Personally, I don't think we are even close to the finished thing, but we have improved sufficiently in my view to let the bloke get on with it and see how far he can take us.

I have never heard ex players have a bad word to say about him......so,there must be something in that, alone.

Edited February 10, 2018 by TRO

[OutByEaster?]

4 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

How do you know that it would be to the detriment of the club? You are making things up there. Yes, Bruce has turned things around and I applaud him for that, BUT you absolutely CANNOT say with any level of certainty that another manager would have us in a worse position (just as you maintain that we cannot say that they wouldn't). Just because you think something it does not make it so. 

The performances up to the point of the last 10 games or so have simply not been good enough. Had he been sacked, despite the whining of his mates in the media it would have been justified. 

Now hopefully what we are seeing is the future and is sustainable, rather than a short lived run of form like last year (it certainly does not feel like last year). This shows that the decision not to sack him was a good one (at the moment). That does not equate to sacking him being a bad decision (as another manager may well have us in the same or better position). Unfortunately we will never know how the alternatives would have panned out.

However - despite the great run of form, we are still not meeting the target of automatic promotion - although we are close. The job is not done yet and there is a lot of work to be done, at the moment we are in with a decent shout of second and first is achievable (although unlikely) - so until then, I and others who doubt his ability (with this club) will continue to worry until we are promoted - although we will enjoy the wins and good performances along the way.

If we get promoted, fair play, I for one will admit I was wrong and will thank him. We can then start the debate about whether we think he should manage us in the prem.

So a direct question to you

If we have a fall off in form towards the end of the season and make the play-offs, but do not go up, or we finish lower than 6th - what would your position be then?

I think that in order to reply to you, the only way I can really illustrate how I feel compared to your feelings is by editing your original post. I hope you don't mind and I hope you can appreciate that a different perspective makes the question a whole different thing. Here's how I see it:

How do you know that it would be to the benefit of the club? You are making things up there. Yes, Bruce has us in a fantastic position and I applaud him for that, BUT you absolutely CANNOT say with any level of certainty that another manager wouldn't have us in an even better position than we are now (just as you maintain that we cannot say that they wouldn't). Just because you think something it does not make it so. 

The performances up to the point of our best run of results under any manager in the last thirty years have been largely okay, but lacking in style, even though results had been acceptable. Had he been sacked for those, despite the whining of some of the fanbase (including OBE who called for him to be sacked a couple of months ago) it would have been somewhat unjustified. 

Now hopefully what we are seeing is the future and is sustainable, rather than a short lived run of form like last year (it certainly does not feel like last year). This shows that the decision not to sack him was a good one (at the moment). Whilst that absolutely does equate to sacking him being a bad decision, it doesn't mean that there's not a possibility that another manager might have been able to match our current excellent position in the league. Fortunately we will never know how the alternatives would have panned out.

Thankfully, with the best run of results under any manager in the last thirty years, we are meeting the target of playoff qualification - and we're close to exceeding it. The job is not done yet and there is a lot of work to be done, but at the moment we've given ourselves a shot at an incredible second place finish and even a miracle first place is achievable (although unlikely) - so, I and others who doubt his ability (with this club) will continue to enjoy our fantastic recent form, our good performances and the thrills of being involved in the race for second, even if we do worry that we might still fall out of the playoff positions.

If we get to the playoffs, fair play, I for one will admit I was wrong. If we're promoted, I'll admit I was wrong and will thank him; it will have been a fantastic achievement. We can then start the debate about whether we think he should manage us in the future.

So a direct question to you

If we have a fall off in form towards the end of the season and don't make the play-offs - what would your position be then?

 

You see, that for me makes more sense, it's more attuned to how I think the season has gone.

A couple of months ago, whilst results were pretty much okay, I called for Bruce's head because the football was horrible to watch - the return of Grealish and a more positive attitude changed that and the results that have followed have changed my ambitions for this season - I had us down for an 8th place finish at the start  of the season and felt the playoffs would represent a pretty good return - right now, I'd be disappointed if we dropped out of the playoff positions, I'm not writing it off, there's a long time to go in this season - but I'm excited and looking up because we're currently playing great football and getting the results that come with that. 

We could have done that under any manager, sure, but it takes hard work and it's a job that up to now is being very well done. In the end, every manager fails and every manager gets the sack - but before that comes they have periods like Steve Bruce is having now and I think it's important and indeed the decent thing to do to celebrate them during those periods. Right now he's doing a brilliant job.