Steve Bruce

[bobzy]

6 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

True but one individual player is very different to the manager. If you have a star that wants out then you can either make him play or drop him. It can be managed in a way that doesn't affect the whole team. 

However if a manger is engineering a move away from the club. That could potentially affect the whole squad. What example does it set to the team if they guy managing them doesn't want to be there?

You see where I'm coming from?

I do, yes. For me, I’d stick with the guy who is doing well, plan a replacement properly should he actually leave and then receive compensation when he does. Sacking him was bizarre.

I understand the moral situation though. 

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

I'm surprised you're pointing out set pieces as a problem. In the SB tenure so far that's something I wouldn't criticise too much. We scored a fair few from them from James Chester last season (Derby-Reading at home) and we haven't conceded that many from them although John Terry being out and Johnstone starting flapping from them hasn't helped.

If Terry had stayed fit we'd have scored a fair few more of them.

It's obviously not as good as the MON days (what is) when we scored from a set piece seemingly every game but at the same time we also had spells under McLeish and especially Lambert when we were terrible defending corners.

Chris, you watch the games as well as me......a defender who scores is a bonus.

I'm talking about scoring from them.....we are just lowgrade

Its not  just the header, the corner kicker too.....

We don't even get our heads on the ball never mind, get one on target or score.....its absolutely woeful.....corner after, corner is the same.

This is just one issue of many.....i see the flaws every match, same ones.

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, Dave J said:

Not in my house - as I say both yesterday’s people who have not moved with the times. Warnock however  is a very intelligent guy, agricultural as well in style of play  imo  but equally objectionable

Good for you. Again my point wasn't about you or your house. it was about the general fanbase and the claim that it would have been 50/50 between those who wanted Warnock and those who didn't. Which is ludicrous. I'd have also been reluctantly ok with Warnock, but most fans wouldn't have been.

2 hours ago, Dave J said:

Bruce is more more palatable for many reasons - but is not what I wish for Aston Villa going forward. 

Nor does anyone else. 

2 hours ago, Dave J said:

if we do go up it will be inspite of him being our manager and not because of some wonderfully hatched plan between him and his coaching team 

Makes literally no sense.

2 hours ago, Dave J said:

 

As others have said I would like a manager with a cohesive and forward thinking attitude to the game in 2017 not stuck in the past again imo 

So does everyone.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Stevo985

[VillaChris]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Chris, you watch the games as well as me......a defender who scores is a bonus.

I'm talking about scoring from them.....we are just lowgrade

Its not  just the header, the corner kicker too.....

We don't even get our heads on the ball never mind, get one on target or score.....its absolutely woeful.....corner after, corner is the same.

This is just one issue of many.....i see the flaws every match, same ones.

Did you not think it was worse in the Lambert days though? Remember Bradford! At least we can defend them usually well now (when Johnstone isn't flapping at them).

I never said we didn't do anything at BMH but more like our training regime is archaic e.g. concentrating more on running and working on our shape with and of course without the ball. All things Big Sam, Pulis and dare I say MON did aswell which means out of possession the team know what they're doing but when we have the ball limitations are apparent as we see most weekends.

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

Did you not think it was worse in the Lambert days though? Remember Bradford! At least we can defend them usually well now (when Johnstone isn't flapping at them).

I never said we didn't do anything at BMH but more like our training regime is archaic e.g. concentrating more on running and working on our shape with and of course without the ball. All things Big Sam, Pulis and dare I say MON did aswell which means out of possession the team know what they're doing but when we have the ball limitations are apparent as we see most weekends.

Would you not think the relationship with JT is sufficient for him to have a word.....if that was the case.

blimey Calderwood did ok at Brighton.

I think its a bit of a trend to say he is archaic.....i think it is probably less expensive to play his way to get results than buy players who can play like Wolves.

I think Pulis,Bruce,Allardyce, Warnock are managers who have never been gifted with huge funds and have tried to find a formula that has given them the best return under the Circumstances.

Its no surprise the best managers gravitate to the best players, meaning the clubs that can afford them......even Rafa is finding this bit frustrating, where he is, considering his career win ratio.....He is constantly having a pop on the box.

Edited December 11, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

You do this every time I answer one of your posts. I don't get it.

I'm just replying to you. What do you want?

You have probably said something feasible.

thats an unfair advantage.

[VillaChris]

Yeah it's difficult to say what John Terry thinks of it having worked under Mourinho, Ancelotti, Conte etc.

Given he was happily playing golf over the summer with SB I imagine he has too much respect for Steve as a bloke to criticise if he thinks training isn't of the standard he requires. Maybe he even likes the old school nature of things.

John Terry is the sort who'll just roll his sleeves up and get on with things....especially as he dosen't have a hotline to Abramovich anymore.

Would disagree on funds.

At Sunderland SB spent 6m on Lee Cattermole, 13m on Asamoah Gyan, 6m on Sessegnon, 8m on Connor Wickham and 6m on Craig Gardner.

At Hull Shane Long and Jelavic cost 13.5m between them. 14/15 the year they were relegated he spent 8m on Jake Livermore, 6m on Snodgrass (missed season through injury) and 10m on Abel Hernandez. Dawson also cost 6m I think.

I think he's one of these who could do well picking up players on loans and making 2-3m signings to get a team up leagues but when he gets serious money to really push a team on he can't quite make it work.

Pulis is exactly the same given he spent a fair bit in his final 18 months at Stoke and same at WBA.

[vreitti]

37 minutes ago, TRO said:

Chris, you watch the games as well as me......a defender who scores is a bonus.

I'm talking about scoring from them.....we are just lowgrade

Its not  just the header, the corner kicker too.....

We don't even get our heads on the ball never mind, get one on target or score.....its absolutely woeful.....corner after, corner is the same.

This is just one issue of many.....i see the flaws every match, same ones.

It's funny how our highly regarded by pundits and others, so called manager, isn't able to rectify all these evident flaws that are so transparent, even for us mere mortals. What does that say about him?

It's the players fault alright, but surely there's some other reason they can't be arsed to even go for a header!? One that's got nothing to do with Bruce.

[VillaChris]

To spin it around...how does Marco Silva at two seperate clubs now in the premier league immediately get those teams playing with a style and good identity?

I know Hull went down but when he took over last year they were going down with a whimper. He got them some excellent results but time was against them.

Now improved Watford from their malaise of last season.

He hasn't spent a huge amount at either club but is having a similar impact to when Pochettino turned up at Southampton with them bottom 3.

Could it be those pesky double training sessions I wonder....

[TRO]

3 hours ago, VillaChris said:

To spin it around...how does Marco Silva at two seperate clubs now in the premier league immediately get those teams playing with a style and good identity?

I know Hull went down but when he took over last year they were going down with a whimper. He got them some excellent results but time was against them.

Now improved Watford from their malaise of last season.

He hasn't spent a huge amount at either club but is having a similar impact to when Pochettino turned up at Southampton with them bottom 3.

Could it be those pesky double training sessions I wonder....

Lets get Marco Silva then......sorted.

How did  Koeman struggle at Everton after success at Southampton.....How did Ranieri struggle so dramatically after winning the league.

you could play that game for Hours.

How come Ron saunders did it with Villa, but not anywher else after he left.

It happens.....it makes no affect to the debate

[TRO]

3 hours ago, vreitti said:

It's funny how our highly regarded by pundits and others, so called manager, isn't able to rectify all these evident flaws that are so transparent, even for us mere mortals. What does that say about him?

It's the players fault alright, but surely there's some other reason they can't be arsed to even go for a header!? One that's got nothing to do with Bruce.

What did Klopp do with Benteke?

He explained the problem of lack of movement from him, nothing happened so he moved him on.

Managers can improve somethings, but other things they can't.....they can only do so much.

I'm sure Pepe can name players he has failed with, but the lower you go down the greasy pole, the numbers increase.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, vreitti said:

It's funny how our highly regarded by pundits and others, so called manager, isn't able to rectify all these evident flaws that are so transparent, even for us mere mortals. What does that say about him?

It's the players fault alright, but surely there's some other reason they can't be arsed to even go for a header!? One that's got nothing to do with Bruce.

So why do they highly regard him then......are they all wrong.

Its them that make the run for the ball or not.....best ask them.

On Sunday they asked Thierry Henry how do you stop certain players, in the man city team,he said its so difficult, because if you create an obstacle they work out a way around it.....

They, not anyone else them.....the players use their brains.

for sure Pepe will help them in training.....but while the game is on they have to think for themselves.

its not a film set.....cut.

Edited December 12, 2017 by TRO

[TheStagMan]

11 hours ago, TRO said:

Chris, you watch the games as well as me......a defender who scores is a bonus.

I'm talking about scoring from them.....we are just lowgrade

Its not  just the header, the corner kicker too.....

We don't even get our heads on the ball never mind, get one on target or score.....its absolutely woeful.....corner after, corner is the same.

This is just one issue of many.....i see the flaws every match, same ones.

Funny then, if you can see all these flaws in our players that our world beater of a manager cannot see and deal with them (you know, do his job). He has had 3 transfer windows and a year with this squad and there has been very little visible progress. 

To say our players are simply not good enough is scraping the barrel in the defense of Steve Bruce to be frank. Lets say for one minute that I agree with you (i Don't) and we do not have one of the best squads in the league - we have not managed to beat any of the current top 8 teams - so we have the 9th best squad of players in the league?

The main problem here is the manager and his ability to get the best out of these players. They were all doing very well at their respective clubs, yet they come here and pretty much turn to s**t overnight. I'm sorry I just don't buy that.

Ultimately as the manager - he is responsible for the performance of the team - if the players are not good enough then he has to replace them or coach them to be better. If the players are not responding to his methods, then he has to do something about it. That's his job as manager, that's what he is paid millions of pounds for.  That's what all his vast experience should be bringing.

Making statements like the players aren't good enough, of FFP is hindering his ability to get us playing better are excuses for poor managerial abilities, nothing more. Other teams manage to produce better football with far less funds and with less skillfull players. Why is that? Could it be that their manager & coaches are doing a better job?

 

[TheStagMan]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

How do you know, he will or could.

Well, lets just remember this post.....and see if he does.

are you saying that the issues i have raised are not true in your opinion?......because if you agree, no many are not good enough, some obviously are.....but especially on the offensive side of the squad, we are over valued in some eyes imo.

I don't. But then I haven't categorically stated that he will. You have stated that Dean Smith will never achieve as much as Bruce has - I am asking how you can state that with such authority - given that Rowett is nearer the start of his career rather than the end (as Bruce is) and is managing in the same league and doing as well as Bruce with less resources?

In this context Bruce's playing career (excellent as it was) is irrelevant. We are talking about his managerial abilities as he manages us, he does not play for us. 

No, I do not believe that the comments you are making about our players not being good enough are true. A decent manager would be able to manage them more effectively and get better from them. 

[TheStagMan]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

its cheap to say, SB has acheived nothing.....go and tell the pundits in the industry that, they would laugh at you.

Frankly, I laugh at the comments made by most pundits when I listen to them, I often wonder how they got jobs as pundits. Most of them are Steve's mates from way back, so frankly the opinion of pundits is of zero interest to me.

[Demitri_C]

11 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Did you not think it was worse in the Lambert days though? Remember Bradford! At least we can defend them usually well now (when Johnstone isn't flapping at them).

I never said we didn't do anything at BMH but more like our training regime is archaic e.g. concentrating more on running and working on our shape with and of course without the ball. All things Big Sam, Pulis and dare I say MON did aswell which means out of possession the team know what they're doing but when we have the ball limitations are apparent as we see most weekends.

The passing side of our game has been poor for many year now. The last manager who I can think of us who had us passing the ball well was houllier. Ever since then we have been pretty poor most of the time with our passing.

For me I think Bruce concentrates a lot on the defensive work and the counter attack side. Set pieces also. I dont think we will ever be  passing side under bruce. dont recall many bruce teams playing passing football so we kinda knew this when we appointed him

[AvfcRigo82]

32 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I dont think we will ever be  passing side under bruce. dont recall many bruce teams playing passing football so we kinda knew this when we appointed him

I don't we will ever be any kind of aide under Bruce.

As highlighted by many above in different aspects, it is clear we have the wrong guy in charge here and I hope promoted or not we show him the door come May.

He is just useless on all fronts and is just fumbling along in playing mediocore football on a hit and hope style it feels.

I can't wait till he is gone, he has became one of the most confrontational, debateable and useless managers to grace Villa Park ever.

[Grasshopper]

19 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

Funny then, if you can see all these flaws in our players that our world beater of a manager cannot see and deal with them (you know, do his job). He has had 3 transfer windows and a year with this squad and there has been very little visible progress. 

To say our players are simply not good enough is scraping the barrel in the defense of Steve Bruce to be frank. Lets say for one minute that I agree with you (i Don't) and we do not have one of the best squads in the league - we have not managed to beat any of the current top 8 teams - so we have the 9th best squad of players in the league?

The main problem here is the manager and his ability to get the best out of these players. They were all doing very well at their respective clubs, yet they come here and pretty much turn to s**t overnight. I'm sorry I just don't buy that.

Ultimately as the manager - he is responsible for the performance of the team - if the players are not good enough then he has to replace them or coach them to be better. If the players are not responding to his methods, then he has to do something about it. That's his job as manager, that's what he is paid millions of pounds for.  That's what all his vast experience should be bringing.

Making statements like the players aren't good enough, of FFP is hindering his ability to get us playing better are excuses for poor managerial abilities, nothing more. Other teams manage to produce better football with far less funds and with less skillfull players. Why is that? Could it be that their manager & coaches are doing a better job?

 

Absolutely 100%

It is beyond a joke how useless Bruce is at the job Managing Aston Villa football club.

It‘s excuse after excuse. 

Someone posted that he is a coward and got slated for it. But you know what?

Dead f***** right he is.

Scared to trust the players, scared to take the game to the opposition. Scared of risking offensive play for waiting to see what the opposition does so the effort is spent on negating them.

Hiding behind excuses, attempting to overpower critisism by deeming it hysterics, Blaming the players, ffp and whatever the gullible will swallow.

Bruce has been given time, money and support. He has the most expensively assembled squad in the history of the division. The support from a board ANY manager could dream of. A fan-base who would idolise him if he delivered. Players with the ability and experience of a higher division, CL medal, PL title, Internationals.

Yet he delivers shit football, no tactics, no pattern of play, no consistancy of level of performance and results. An Absolute disgrace to the club, the fans, the clubs standing within football, our history and our future.

Bruce has no excuse whatsoever for not delivering. He has not delivered, is not delivering and there has been zero evidence that he will deliver.

Not getting promotion is not an option. It will have been a complete waste of money, time and effort from anybody and everybody at the club.

Aston Villa being stuck in this division has no future. The top 6 in PL will just march full steam ahead from the rest. One only has to look at the table to see that Burnley (yes Burnley) are the best of the rest. wtf?

Are we so „out of it, sh*t“ that we have to accept such dire football, being played of the park by Brentford, out muscled by Cardiff, out thought by Millwall and game for game being shown up by teams, Players & managers who show us exactly what we are as a football club here and now?

We have NO leadership, we have no recognisable concept of how to play a game of football against inferior opposition - I say inferior opposition because we should be superior - We have no style and no grace. It‘s all down to the manager, Steve Bruce.

As a Lifelong Villa fan whos journey started in the relegation season down to Div3 I can honestly say with hand on heart we are at the crossroads towards or away from the lowest point in our history. This season is very much the last chance saloon.

The Div3 Aston Villa was a club in turmoil, which due to the „non-SKY“ era, had the chance to sort itself out and rise again.

Our previous relegation, was also at a time where it was possible to get back and rise to compete.

Our last relegation was a watershed moment, we had long circled the drain with no direction from Lerner other than cut losses and see what happens.

We were at a new dawn season 2016/17. The old had to go and the new had to deliver. The „old“ that are still here are

Richards - who is not played

Gaby - who is either injured, effective for a few and uninterested for the rest of the games.

&

Hutton - a shit footballer standing in the way of youth and progress in the RB position

The New is/are

SJ - good/bad and everything inbetween

Chester - PL level and International player

Taylor too

Terry - say no more

Whelan & Jedi - PL players

Snod Elmo Adomah Onomah PL players

Hourihane & Lansbury - top performers for their previous clubs

Hogan & McC - miss-used (missunderstood?) proven goalscorers at this level

& Kodjia

All the above and we are not competing with Wolves. Disgracefull

How/why is it that

Wolves can - Get a new owner/manager/players and go straight to the top of the league?

Teams come to VP and have a clear concept of how to play?

Teams above around or below us, simply use the ball better than we do?

Answer - Steve Bruce‘s inability to get the best or at least an acceptable level of performance from the above mentioned players (plus the rest of our squad/Youth players)

BRUCE OUT

[Stevo985]

12 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I can't wait till he is gone, he has became one of the most confrontational, debateable and useless managers to grace Villa Park ever.

This thread is amazing.

One of the most useless managers to grace Villa Park.
Have you got a straight face when you type that? Have you been living under a rock for the reigns of Lambert, Garde, Sherwood, Di Matteo, McLeish etc?

[tomav84]

14 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Ok, that's fine, as an example of a decision going badly. However that does not mean that sacking Bruce would go as badly for us. Plus in relative terms Rowett was achieving far more at SHA than Bruce is here, so to me It is an even less logical comparison. 

 

The other part of my point is that performances and achievement were not the whole reason he was sacked.

What would it take for you to want Bruce gone?

the day when promotion this season is guaranteed to not be possible...it was his target