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Steve Bruce


Demitri_C

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27 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

People really starting to attribute good results to the chairman instead of the manager?

The reluctance to give Bruce any credit ever is hilarious on here at times.

Michael118 just quoted some stats.

indeed facts.

I personally do not find it hilarious that despite the praise that some poster give Bruce for the games he has won, we are not in a position that garantees promotion neither do we look like a team capable of it.

We may currently be in a playoff position BUT I would like to state that it is my opinion that we are in a situation where we may soon find ourselves out of one, with an ever increasing injury/loss of form list due to the managers decisions.

The only Hilarity on here is the „overall“ defence of Bruce. Granted, the extreme examples given by both sides of the arguement (and I include MYSELF as a guilty party) about individual reasons/games/selections/decisionsare not to be taken as 100% definitive.

However, looking at the whole shebang so far, Bruce has 2 legs that hardly have the strength to stand on.

Arguments for or against are irrelevant because

Do we keep Bruce and find out if he can or cant?

Do we sack him and give someone else a crack at it?

Either being right or wrong!

Will DrT go with it or make a change?

 

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18 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

Michael118 just quoted some stats.

indeed facts.

I personally do not find it hilarious that despite the praise that some poster give Bruce for the games he has won, we are not in a position that garantees promotion neither do we look like a team capable of it.

We may currently be in a playoff position BUT I would like to state that it is my opinion that we are in a situation where we may soon find ourselves out of one, with an ever increasing injury/loss of form list due to the managers decisions.

The only Hilarity on here is the „overall“ defence of Bruce. Granted, the extreme examples given by both sides of the arguement (and I include MYSELF as a guilty party) about individual reasons/games/selections/decisionsare not to be taken as 100% definitive.

However, looking at the whole shebang so far, Bruce has 2 legs that hardly have the strength to stand on.

Arguments for or against are irrelevant because

Do we keep Bruce and find out if he can or cant?

Do we sack him and give someone else a crack at it?

Either being right or wrong!

Will DrT go with it or make a change?

 

I read one of your posts for once.

Unsurprisingly it was nothing to do with what you were quoting so I'm not sure why you did that.

Edited by Stevo985
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4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Going off topic but if Steve Bruce was talking to other clubs while employed by he Villa I'd like to think the board would sack him too.

Really, okay.

So should we sack players, coaches and general staff members for daring to try and further their careers too?

Maybe we should have sacked Benteke instead of giving him a new contract back when he was 'speaking to Spurs.......

I work in recruitment, that's a ridiculous stance to take and one that ensures a crappy working culture.

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3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

Well, No, because it is a completely different set of circumstances. Rowett had taken them as far as they could go and was talking to other clubs about a move.

 

Bruce has underachieved and is not meeting his targets. 

 

Can you see the difference there?

 

Anyway, I don't really care what has / has not happened at other clubs, I care about the best thing for ASTON VILLA, at the moment I am not convinced that is Steve Bruce.

Look, Gary Rowett was brought up as an example of a big decision made by a club that was already doing well, i.e. not someone you would naturally look at and think, let's sack that guy, he's doing crap.

I simply highlighted that that decision backfired big time, if you want to debate that with me got for it but the facts speak for themselves, under Rowett they were doing well, since the day they sacked him they've gone backwards, big time.

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3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I read one of your posts for once.

Unsurprisingly it was nothing to do with what you were quoting so I'm not sure why you did that.

it was in answer to your „praising Bruce“ not the Dr

I stated what M118 said

I then went on with my opinion of why.

Admittedly I expanded on the managers position - which is also relevant because if he was de-positioned we couldnt „not praise him“ for credit.

anyway

If you dont understand what you read - dont read

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Isn't it against the rules for clubs to approach players without consent from the other club?

Like what Plop did with Van Dijk.

Not sure how it works with managers, or if it has much relevance about Bruce.

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2 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

it was in answer to your „praising Bruce“ not the Dr

I stated what M118 said

I then went on with my opinion of why.

Admittedly I expanded on the managers position - which is also relevant because if he was de-positioned we couldnt „not praise him“ for credit.

anyway

If you dont understand what you read - dont read

I understood it, it just has no relevance to my post so I'm not sure why I was quoted.

I'll go back to scrolling past your posts. Reminds me, I need a new mouse wheel.

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1 minute ago, sne said:

Isn't it against the rules for clubs to approach players without consent from the other club?

Like what Plop did with Van Dijk.

Not sure how it works with managers, or if it has much relevance about Bruce.

Well IF someone did approach Bruce the club should at least offer them a 3 for 1 deal Bruce, Hutton & Gaby

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4 hours ago, vreitti said:

Was I trying to make a point as to how good or bad it had worked out for them?

Were you not?

I've read and re-read your post a few times, still suggests to me that you've used Rowett and Puel as 2 examples of clubs sacking Managers when there wasn't necessarily an obvious need to do so.

Since Blues sacked Rowett they've gone backwards hugely.

Since Southampton sacked Puel they've not really progressed either (and ironically, Puel is now beginning to pull up trees at Leicester).

 

If I've somehow misread that then by all means, my apologies, but I don't think I've misread it.

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19 hours ago, romavillan said:

Yeah promoted by any means necessary is the order of the day.
 

I think it's very interesting that his post match Millwall comments are exactly what a few of us on here have been levelling as the main problems. Inability to keep the ball, inability to manage a game, sloppy, slow... It's what a lot of us have been saying even whilst we were winning. It's those things that are the big issues, I'm not anti Bruce, I'm anti being a poorly organised and coached football team. If Bruce can sort that out then Bruce all the way for me.

It's clear we have the talent at this level, we have gained a shedload of points through individual skill, or a flash of 2 or 3 of them combining. The total minutes of us looking good as a team WITH the ball has been a small percentage of the minutes we have played this season. We are ten times the team we were WITHOUT the ball before Bruce, and that's to his credit. I'm of the opinion that that's only half the battle though, and he's had time.

It's obvious to me the coaching sessions we put on at Bodymoor Heath aren't good enough for producing good passing football.

SB has been in charge for over a year now so we should've seen a significant difference on the pitch given that time.

Not sure if anyone on here pops down to BH but do we even do double sessions or do the players just leave at 12/1pm like they used to when I  went down 10 years ago?

I imagine our training sessions consist of jogging around the pitch a few times and then work on defending set pieces and shape/play and then maybe a small sided game to finish things off. All fine and things you need to do but it's an old school British manager approach.

Pochettino when he came in at Spurs immediately did double training sessions, improved their intensity and you can obviously see that by how much better Spurs are than 2 years ago. Think back to when we beat Spurs 1-0 in April 2015 and the level they're now at.

I don't think we do enough during the week and then there's a mass scratching of head when we produce mediocre spells of possession football on a Saturday.

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16 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Really, okay.

So should we sack players, coaches and general staff members for daring to try and further their careers too?

Maybe we should have sacked Benteke instead of giving him a new contract back when he was 'speaking to Spurs.......

I work in recruitment, that's a ridiculous stance to take and one that ensures a crappy working culture.

I hope you've also read my follow up post to this explaining my thoughts. 

Maybe sacking is the wrong choice of word. But if a manager wants out and players know about it. It's the beginning of the end for that manager at the club IMO. 

The team can only suffer if the manager doesn't want to be there.

Anyway I assume Bruce does want to be at Villa so we're going way off topic. 

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2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

True but one individual player is very different to the manager. If you have a star that wants out then you can either make him play or drop him. It can be managed in a way that doesn't affect the whole team. 

However if a manger is engineering a move away from the club. That could potentially affect the whole squad. What example does it set to the team if they guy managing them doesn't want to be there?

You see where I'm coming from?

@bannedfromHandV

here was second post. I think my first one came across a little wrong. 

Edited by Vive_La_Villa
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7 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

@bannedfromHandV

here was second post. I think my first one came across a little wrong. 

Thanks, I get what you're saying but the reality is that people can and will move on in their careers for a plethora of reasons.

Actively trying to stand in the way of that is nothing more than obstructive and does not breed a happy working environment.

But thanks for the added context, I hadn't seen your second post.

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2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Thanks, I get what you're saying but the reality is that people can and will move on in their careers for a plethora of reasons.

Actively trying to stand in the way of that is nothing more than obstructive and does not breed a happy working environment.

But thanks for the added context, I hadn't seen your second post.

I appriecate where are you coming from and I totally agree you can't actively stop someone from advancing.  I just think football management is quite unique in how much influence one man can have on everybody he manages. Right or wrong I understand why Blues decided to part with Rowett. 

Anyway if there were some bigger clubs sniffing around Bruce it would mean he is doing a good job so wouldn't be a bad thing.....as long as he doesn't speak to them without permission of course ;)

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10 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

I'm sure I heard right the other day, that when Rowett was sacked the blues were 3 points outside the playoffs.

That is mental. 

Its exactly the point some of us are making......The football is frustrating in the main....The problems relate to many things including the manager, the players and the coaches.....its very difficult and sometimes misleading to single anyone out.

I much prefer to refer to the problem and not speculate on the source, because I could very well be wrong.

  • I could blame players who are working their socks off at BMH
  • I could blame a manager, who I do not see working......He too could be working his socks off.
  • I could blame coaches ....who I do not see working
  • I could blame scouts, but don't know the warts 'n all

There are many factors for success and failure.....and at times we feel obliged to know the answer and we generally don't....we just speculate.

Its easy to throw the baby out with th bath water.....We have seen so many clubs do it.....its naive.

Edited by TRO
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45 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

It's obvious to me the coaching sessions we put on at Bodymoor Heath aren't good enough for producing good passing football.

SB has been in charge for over a year now so we should've seen a significant difference on the pitch given that time.

Not sure if anyone on here pops down to BH but do we even do double sessions or do the players just leave at 12/1pm like they used to when I  went down 10 years ago?

I imagine our training sessions consist of jogging around the pitch a few times and then work on defending set pieces and shape/play and then maybe a small sided game to finish things off. All fine and things you need to do but it's an old school British manager approach.

Pochettino when he came in at Spurs immediately did double training sessions, improved their intensity and you can obviously see that by how much better Spurs are than 2 years ago. Think back to when we beat Spurs 1-0 in April 2015 and the level they're now at.

I don't think we do enough during the week and then there's a mass scratching of head when we produce mediocre spells of possession football on a Saturday.

Chris you could well be right, but I don't think the solution is that simple.

you can have the best coaches in the world, but if the players can't execute their instructions whats the point.

You could get a manager to do all that.....and something that we had, goes missing.....I share your frustration.

I could come on here and have a rant about our poor play and it is poor, but unless we are going to get a shed load of money, appoint a top class coach and get FFP suspended, I don't see the answer.

I remember Neil Warnock's name being ridiculed on here, when we was changing earlier managers, but the so called technical ones like Remi & RDM have not done anything either.

Its tricky.

I don't profess to know the answer, but what i do know is......we ain't going anywhere with a depleted forward department in the squad......its a major,major problem.

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