Steve Bruce

[srsmithusa]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think there will be a time.....when he will out grow his usefulness, but we were in dire trouble and resilience is what we needed to give us a platform.

I understand that to move on we may need a new approach.....but whoever that new manager is to bring in a more adventurous style....He will need players who he can get to fulfill those ideas.

when pepe works his magic, its with players who can respond and who can execute his thoughts.

i have never intimated you are wrong.....i am just arguing the realism of where we are.

We have no strikers who can move intelligently up front to take the fight to the opposition, so maybe resillience is all we have to survive in this promotion race right now.

we are stuffed with FFP, we are not sure what funds we have, so its a very tricky time to be changing managers.....as much as we want to move forward, we could book a trip back i.e Leonid Slutsky who came with a good pedigree.

No manager with high pedigree will come to us with no money or strapped with FFP.

We have to stay with him for now, get the injured players back and see if we can get JT equivalent up front on loan in Jan.

I am not as dissmissive of your claims as you think.....I just think it could be worse as we have seen over the past 7-8 years.

I would like to do a Wolves and Nuno has done great.......but Jorge Mendes ably funded by the chinese have worked wonders too.....I am not convinced that Nuno would get the same out of our players.

 

,

 

I agree with much of what you say.  With one addition.  Bruce is recruiting players to play his style.   So when we give the next guy a chance, he’ll have a roster full of players that are suited to a negative approach.  We’ll still have FFP limitations and need 11 new players to play a new style.  I fear we’ll be back to square one    I would rather us make and implement a cohesive long term plan rather than hope a patchwork plan will somehow have each patch and the transitions work out  

 

[TRO]

It is unlikely Steve Bruce will get the sack unless we are Haemorraging points, every week.

I hear all the pro's and cons about the way we play and i am as frustrated as GH.

I have just heard Alan Shearerr say on MOTD that all the United fans will know they have been beaten by a better team......not a better manager......better team.

I am sure what i am watching is low grade football.....this team are missing their best players and Imo inadequate quality in attack in the squad.....we have 5 forwards, thats too few and i blame the club for that or Bruce if its his call.

Everton, have just had to bring in the same type of manager as Steve in order to instill some resillience.....its not crystal clear this problem we have.

I think our team look like they work hard, but they don't work hard in the right ways....they don't pass and move or win headers, thats working hard.

I hear some of the punted managers mooted to take over from SB and cringe.

There appears no consideration that we could go backwards......who would have thought Everton could.

As frustrating as it is to watch Villa.....sacking managers is a more tricky business in our position(FFP & dubious funds) than some allude to.

 

Edited December 10, 2017 by TRO

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Define "good enough".

Good enough to keep us in it for a season? Yes.

Good enough to take us further than that? Probably not.

 

 

I'd be quite happy to see him sacked, depending on the replacement, by the way. It would still be mental if it happened though. And it won't.

Stevo, in what way would it be mental if he was sacked if we were promoted? Do you think he should be kept on as a reward, or do you think that the board are simply not ruthless or competent enough to make the change? If it’s the latter then I probably agree with you. If it’s the former, then I’d be saying that there’s no room for sentimentality. His chances of even keeping us up are remote. His style is no longer relevant in the PL and has been left behind by a lot of clubs in the Championship too.

[tinker]

The board aren't routhless enough and they haven't got the football knowledge to do it. Look at some of the signings they have allowed the manager's to.make , says it all to me.

We need a Levy , we need guidance from someone who knows what their doing, Not loads of money and spin .

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Stevo, in what way would it be mental if he was sacked if we were promoted? Do you think he should be kept on as a reward, or do you think that the board are simply not ruthless or competent enough to make the change? If it’s the latter then I probably agree with you. If it’s the former, then I’d be saying that there’s no room for sentimentality. His chances of even keeping us up are remote. His style is no longer relevant in the PL and has been left behind by a lot of clubs in the Championship too.

Dave i think its the blame game that is more of what we are arguing about as opposed to what we are watching.

I was one of the frustated c27,000 villa fans that witnessed that poor offering albeit welcome point i was in doubt we desreved.

but do you honestly think if we had say (realistically opinion) Charlie Austin and jermaine defoe on loan.....we would be playing like this.

We have no experienced forwards available......its resilience or bust.

you can blame who you like....i have no idea how many are responsible for that, but that is the state of play.

There are many factors to our problems, throwing the manager under the bus is fine, but it may not fix what we want fixing......They thought at Blues that Gary Rowett was not good enough.......look at the outcome.

[srsmithusa]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

Dave i think its the blame game that is more of what we are arguing about as opposed to what we are watching.

I was one of the frustated c27,000 villa fans that witnessed that poor offering albeit welcome point i was in doubt we desreved.

but do you honestly think if we had say (realistically opinion) Charlie Austin and jermaine defoe on loan.....we would be playing like this.

We have no experienced forwards available......its resilience or bust.

you can blame who you like....i have no idea how many are responsible for that, but that is the state of play.

There are many factors to our problems, throwing the manager under the bus is fine, but it may not fix what we want fixing......They thought at Blues that Gary Rowett was not good enough.......look at the outcome.

Yeah, but blues are idiots.  Bad example

[Villan_of_oz]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

Dave i think its the blame game that is more of what we are arguing about as opposed to what we are watching.

I was one of the frustated c27,000 villa fans that witnessed that poor offering albeit welcome point i was in doubt we desreved.

but do you honestly think if we had say (realistically opinion) Charlie Austin and jermaine defoe on loan.....we would be playing like this.

We have no experienced forwards available......its resilience or bust.

you can blame who you like....i have no idea how many are responsible for that, but that is the state of play.

There are many factors to our problems, throwing the manager under the bus is fine, but it may not fix what we want fixing......They thought at Blues that Gary Rowett was not good enough.......look at the outcome.

I'm sure I heard right the other day, that when Rowett was sacked the blues were 3 points outside the playoffs.

That is mental. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Villan_of_oz

[AvfcRigo82]

11 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Well nobody has been promoted from the Championship more than Bruce, IIRC.

So if you're argument is why didn't the board appoint a manager purely on promotion record, the answer is that's exactly what they did.

True, they did - but one who now seems to have outdated himself in his methodic style of play that is not attack attack attack but more stay back, stay back, stay back!

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but maybe we should have gone for Neil Warnock instead perhaps if it was all based on past promotion records?

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

Stevo, in what way would it be mental if he was sacked if we were promoted? Do you think he should be kept on as a reward, or do you think that the board are simply not ruthless or competent enough to make the change? If it’s the latter then I probably agree with you. If it’s the former, then I’d be saying that there’s no room for sentimentality. His chances of even keeping us up are remote. His style is no longer relevant in the PL and has been left behind by a lot of clubs in the Championship too.

Because clubs don't sack managers who have just got them promoted. And if they do it's mental.

 

I've literally just said I wouldn't mind if he was sacked. I can completely see the logic if it were to happen, depending on the replacement.

But don't pretend it's an every day occurrence. It would be crazy.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Stevo985

[AvfcRigo82]

13 hours ago, USA_Villa said:

Here's where I am on things:

1. I do not believe we are a good enough team to get automatic promotion.

I slightly disagree.

I feel we have a decent team more than capable of winning this league, but we just have the wrong manager and coaches that appear unable to get the best out of them.

The managers approach and style of play does not suit or compliment the attacking players that we have.

 

13 hours ago, USA_Villa said:

   2. I think it's 50/50 we get in to the playoffs.

I agree as things stand it would appear that way, however I am sure that if we where to turn one of our next 3 games that many of us anticipated a draw into 3 points instead then things could alter.

 

13 hours ago, USA_Villa said:

   3.  I always want the Villa to win, but I really don't think Bruce is the answer. I wish he would have gone after the poor start to this season.

Agreed I don't believe he was the answer either but the board felt otherwise and went for candidates with promotional experience.

His poor start to the season could be a very costly one if we do not improve and climb towards 2nd again soon.

I agree we should have been looking at an alternative replacement after 7 games but the board felt better that he stayed put, plus the financial implications of FFP regards sacking him and his backroom team and all the compo, plus the compo/release clauses of any replacement manager and signing all his backroom staff too would have amounted to a fair sum and a gamble they where not willing to take at that time.

 

13 hours ago, USA_Villa said:

   4.  It's so difficult to watch the Villa. We have some of the best players and play the least attractive football. There are times we look clueless

Again this is down to our current manager.

I have said it before, there are other managers out there that would easily have this team playing the football we all know they are capable of.

Ask yourself, who would you rather work under as your manager: Pep Gaurdiola or Roy Hodgson?

Many players are in need of a better manager here to get the best out of them which are current manager is unable to do.

 

13 hours ago, USA_Villa said:

   5.   We have a squad that would beat 5 out 10 teams without trying with me as the manager. The million dollar question is what happens when we play the other 5 teams. With Bruce in charge the answer is we don't win against enough of those games and we look poor doing it.

Again, it is not like we have not got the players to do this, I believe under a better manager we would probably be going neck and neck with Wolves right now in terms of league position.

I don't just mean someone like Dean Smith, but someone who actually can get the best out of this bunch on a consistant basis and able to continue to build us long term.

Even with the right backing I don't believe Dean Smith would be able to aim for Champions League places once we we're promoted.

 

13 hours ago, USA_Villa said:

    6.   If we lose to Brentford on Boxing day he needs to go. Dean Smith will have then beaten him twice and tied once. Sack Bruce, hire Smith

There is no excuse why would should drop out the play-off places now, it would be just unacceptable.

I know I am going to get pelters again for this but depending our position come January, if we have lost more momentum and results are poor then Bruce really does need to go!

It could be that we could have lost far far too much ground on the automatic places and will be banking all our season hopes on winning the play offs!

If this scenario panned out then Tony Xia should really replace him and go all in, in terms of our next manager, to which we all have our personal desired replacements in mind who that should be.

[AvfcRigo82]

11 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'd prefer to go up via the playoffs to be completely honest.

I do think Playoffs will be an underperformance for us. But if we go up we go up, and to sack bruce would be mental after that.

No it wouldn't.

[Stevo985]

33 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

True, they did - but one who now seems to have outdated himself in his methodic style of play that is not attack attack attack but more stay back, stay back, stay back!

Again, this is greatly exaggerated by posters and fans. No bruce is not the most attacking manager in the world, but he's nowhere near as defensive as some people like to make him out to be.

It's games vs real sit back and hoof teams like Ipswich and Millwall that make you realise that.

 

34 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but maybe we should have gone for Neil Warnock instead perhaps if it was all based on past promotion records?

But, again, I don't understand this point. If you want to base it purely on past promotion records then bruce is the obvious choice. If you want to base it on anything else then you'd struggle to find an attribute where Warnock would come out ahead of everyone else available. 
Warnock has done and is doing a great job. But yes hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think you'd have struggled to find one fan who would have been behind Warnock's appointment.

 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

No it wouldn't.

If you say so.

[Villarocker]

11 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

I'm not arsed with all this talk of "top 2 or it's not good enough".

We just need to get promoted.  I don't care if that's automatically, through the play offs, or via the Postcode Lottery.

Totally agree with you NV. I think that every Villa fan would agree with you on that!

I think that people only criticise the style of play because, like me, they see it as a weakness and could cost us against the better teams, jeopardizing our chances of promotion. 

If Bruce gets us up playing this style of football - fair play to the man. He will have succeeded. 

[AvfcRigo82]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

think you'd have struggled to find one fan who would have been behind Warnock's appointment.

Going by reactions at the time I think it would have panned out as an almost equal ratio.

[Stevo985]

Just now, AvfcRigo82 said:

Going by reactions at the time I think it would have panned out as an almost equal ratio.

What, as many wanting him as didn't?

No **** way  

[AvfcRigo82]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

If you say so.

So if we are promoted under Bruce, you believe he should be given a further one year in the Premier League?.. Even though he can barely get us out of this league.

We would be slaughtered by any Premier League team if we where to play them in our next game.

I believe if he got us promoted it should be a golden handshake and all the best.

[AvfcRigo82]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

What, as many wanting him as didn't?

No **** way  

As you say, for and against on both managers.  Hillarious I guess?  

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

So if we are promoted under Bruce, you believe he should be given a further one year in the Premier League?.. Even though he can barely get us out of this league.

We would be slaughtered by any Premier League team if we where to play them in our next game.

I believe if he got us promoted it should be a golden handshake and all the best.

Read my posts.

10 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

 

 

I'd be quite happy to see him sacked, depending on the replacement, by the way. It would still be mental if it happened though. And it won't.

 

11 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'd prefer to go up via the playoffs to be completely honest.

I do think Playoffs will be an underperformance for us. But if we go up we go up, and to sack bruce would be mental after that.

 

24 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Because clubs don't sack managers who have just got them promoted. And if they do it's mental.

 

I've literally just said I wouldn't mind if he was sacked. I can completely see the logic if it were to happen, depending on the replacement.

But don't pretend it's an every day occurrence. It would be crazy.

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Stevo985

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

As you say, for and against on both managers.  Hillarious I guess?  

Not hilarious. Just obviously incorrect.

Most people were for Bruce's appointment. At least the majority.

I would guess not even 5% of fans would have wanted Warnock.