Steve Bruce

[srsmithusa]

7 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

In what realistic sense do we get to choose at all? 

There was a string of posts discussing the relative importance of each.  The observation that it needn’t be an either or decision is a reasonable observation.  And we each certainly choose what we wish to see.   I wish to see entertaining AND winning performances, but I think you probably knew that’s what I meant already.  

[sheepyvillian]

like our n

[TRO]

9 hours ago, Taxahunter said:

I dont agree with the bold part, I think he is largely responsible for what goes on, on the pitch, otherwise, what do they do in training. They should be training defensive and attacking setup, how they run in midfield, wings and attack, when and how they release the balls to get into the best attacking positions, they should be training to keep pressing 3-5 seconds after loosing the ball, to close down the opposition and if they dont do it in training, they wont do it on matchdays. He should correct all the mistakes and flaws during the 5 days training during the week, and if the players dont do what they are instructed to do, stop training and explain what they are doing wrong, so they can improve, during the next play. 

In reality, I dont think Steve Bruce is training the players in the above mentioned. If he does, he is doing a shitty job.

I agree wholeheartedly....if what you suggest is true.

but you have no more idea than me that he is not doing that.....The thing with training is, there is no opposition to distract you away from your instruction.....But they could be doing all the things, we think they are not.

If what you are saying is true, its all managers.....and believe me I know how important they are, so I am not arguing on that point, but why do we have 4 divisions and the best players usually play in top echelons of the Prem and the worst usually play in the bottom of Division 2.

You cannot ignore the individual performance of the player and his training it could be brilliant .....but their form fluctuates, why, because they are not consistent enough or to put a finer point on it not good enough in those terms.....when we have a game and too many are off, we are in trouble.

Ronald Koeman was flying and now he is sacked.....has he suddenly become a bad manager?.....No, but it is easier to sack a manager than 11 highly valued players.....

I am not singing Steve Bruce's praises.....He has stopped us getting spanked, but frankly not much more.

We are not playing convincing football, we are playing " its hard to sack the manager" football or "survival" football.

PS Its not beyond the realms of deduction.....that over the years they have all be substandard....Managers, coaches and most players.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by TRO

[srsmithusa]

22 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

....it is easier to sack a manager than 11 highly valued players.....

 

I edited out all but the part I’ve been hoping you would agree with for the past 10 months. 

[sheepyvillian]

Where are you Gh ? Just because no one is calling you out ,it doesn't mean your not wanted. 

Tbh ,I miss your cast iron telling it like it is .

[OutByEaster?]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

Good post all round. I think I'm odd.

I think you're less odd than you used to be. The way the top league has solidified for me has a little ripple out where people have started to want different things out of their football clubs. I'm increasingly finding myself more interested in games than results, I love watching a player come through and develop, I'm at a point where on occasion I'm genuinely more excited for a reserve game than a first team one at times - I think the game is changing outside of the top six in the Premier league - no one else can win anything, so we've all started on the idea of just enjoying it. That's in general anyway, and just a feeling - you are still quite odd.

 

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

I edited out all but the part I’ve been hoping you would agree with for the past 10 months. 

I agree with it....doesn't mean that i think it is particularly right.

I have always believed and a manager is only as good as his players.....that's why they ALL want the best.

even Pepe knows that.....however i think he is a great coach.

we talk about coaching but your rarely make a "silk purse out a sows ear"

er! well Delph as full back, maybe exceptions to every rule.

Edited November 6, 2017 by TRO

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think you're less odd than you used to be. The way the top league has solidified for me has a little ripple out where people have started to want different things out of their football clubs. I'm increasingly finding myself more interested in games than results, I love watching a player come through and develop, I'm at a point where on occasion I'm genuinely more excited for a reserve game than a first team one at times - I think the game is changing outside of the top six in the Premier league - no one else can win anything, so we've all started on the idea of just enjoying it. That's in general anyway, and just a feeling - you are still quite odd.

 

Aw, shucks. You say the nicest things

but yeah, exactly, really.

[sheepyvillian]

7 hours ago, vreitti said:

It's said that Bruce is so highly regarded by peers, players and whatnot. There are what, three vacancies in the Premier League at the moment? Funny how none are coming after our messiah.

Highly regarded for what ? For never being shy in getting a round in .

[Vive_La_Villa]

I think in this league if you play football the 'right' way. You will eventually get promoted. Think Swansea, Bournemouth and Huddersfield. 

Villa aside the team I would love to see promoted because of how they try to play is Brentford. I would put money on Smith getting a team promoted one day. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think in this league if you play football the 'right' way. You will eventually get promoted. Think Swansea, Bournemouth and Huddersfield. 

Villa aside the team I would love to see promoted because of how they try to play is Brentford. I would put money on Smith getting a team promoted one day. 

I agree.

but you have to be able to defend too.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I agree.

but you have to be able to defend too.

True but if your possession is always 60% or more it sure makes life easier for the defenders. The opposition can't score if they haven't got the ball! 

[sheepyvillian]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree with it....doesn't mean that i think it is particularly right.

I have always believed and a manager is only as good as his players.....that's why they ALL want the best.

even Pepe knows that.....however i think he is a great coach.

we talk about coaching but your rarely make a "silk purse out a sows ear"

Tell David Wagner that ,or Chris Houghton. Coaching has to be a big factor in their respective club's achievements . Most teams play to a style according to the manager's instructions, although I'm slightly non plussed as to what our style actually is,hoof and hope comes to mind . In terms of tactical nous, I think Bruce is illiterate. 

Some managers stamp their identity on to their teams ,Pepe , Klopp and look what Rodgers has achieved at Celtic . I bet if Rodgers left it wouldn't be long before their unbeaten run came to an end ,such is the influence he brings to that team. 

That's what we need, a manager who isn't overawed by the challenge of getting us back to where we need to be .

[TRO]

29 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Tell David Wagner that ,or Chris Houghton. Coaching has to be a big factor in their respective club's achievements . Most teams play to a style according to the manager's instructions, although I'm slightly non plussed as to what our style actually is,hoof and hope comes to mind . In terms of tactical nous, I think Bruce is illiterate. 

Some managers stamp their identity on to their teams ,Pepe , Klopp and look what Rodgers has achieved at Celtic . I bet if Rodgers left it wouldn't be long before their unbeaten run came to an end ,such is the influence he brings to that team. 

That's what we need, a manager who isn't overawed by the challenge of getting us back to where we need to be .

look you are not wrong.....and it would be foolish of me to ignore your claims, but I would suspect if any of those managers took over our club, there would be player personnel changes.

I suspect, they would not be able to play their style with our players.....just my view.

[vreitti]

41 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

I suspect, they would not be able to play their style with our players.....just my view.

I respect your view, but think you seriously underestimate the squad we have. Most of the oldies are on loan or short term contracts. The rest would almost certainly adapt, if given proper instructions and motivation.

[Johnnyp]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I think in this league if you play football the 'right' way. You will eventually get promoted. Think Swansea, Bournemouth and Huddersfield. 

Villa aside the team I would love to see promoted because of how they try to play is Brentford. I would put money on Smith getting a team promoted one day. 

We'd play some lovely football under him too but unlikely to happen. Lot of people were having a pop at him early in the season when brentford couldn't get out of the bottom 3 despite been desperately unlucky in games. Now they are hitting top form. Christiansen looked like the next best thing and now he's potentially a game away from the bullet.

[Grasshopper]

2 hours ago, sheepyvillian said:

Where are you Gh ? Just because no one is calling you out ,it doesn't mean your not wanted. 

Tbh ,I miss your cast iron telling it like it is .

Where do I start?

Firstly, Bruce should have thought about how to go about beating SheffW. He simply didnt. It should have been obvious to him that they would pass & move & protect, roughing up Davis pushing our MF back to hoof or park a bus so to „mass us out in their half.

As JK was injured it was pretty obvious to go Davis up top and 5 across the middle so that it would have made it difficult for SW. - either Whelan & Jedi with Elmo Hourihane/Onomah & Adomah pushing on to support Davis (Elmo for Snod) OR - Jedi/Whelan + Elmo Onomah Hourihane & Adomah. (O’Hare for CH if tired)  & Taylor should have come in along with RDL or Bree. (heaven forbid play Hutton at RW if Elmo is tired too). That would have freshened up things a little.

So on to the game.

The wonder goal - it happens. But after thinking „wow“ my second thought was „thats how it must feel for other teams when JK, JG, AA or CH come up with something special“. Well now we know. But we still had 89+mins to get back in it and go on to win.

Then JT goes off - The last thing we needed, not because of how good he is, but how exposed we will now be without him.

CB - Bruce moved JC to Left CB and on came Samba who was promptly danced around for the second goal. BUT! there was more to it than just Samba‘s cumbersome figure. Elmo - not a RB - was not aware of the „run behind“ - Chester was also unable to cover (moving JC to LCB weakens us, Samba at R or L CB weakens us anyway - so why doesnt Bruce keep JC at RCB? - Utter madness)

This defensive reshuffle meant

Elmo, who is not a RB needs JC  alongside him to cover/help him, now has Samba alongside him ????????

Samba now has JC to his left, JC not being of great pace now on his weaker side also having to play along side Hutton who is also out of position. WTF?

I ask myself, would a sunday league manager do stuff like this?

I also ask myself „who‘s decision was it to sell Baker? The Board or Bruce? (Dumb or Dumber?) Shocking decision.

Midfield - A tired 4 in MF consisting of an injured Snod, (who is still regaining match fitness) Whelan, Hourihane & Adomah was just asking for trouble.

Striker/s - Expecting Davis to perform EVERY game is simply too much to ask for from someone with such little  1st XI experience. Playing Hogan as Bruce does is both hanging him out to dry and embarrassing to say the least. Who‘s Idea was it to buy him? a major error of judgement.

Playing Davis up top works with JK and/or close support from MF. Ironically I think McC would be the perfect „single support player“ (McC in a free role) but Bruce put paid to that option. (if only SB would have given McC as much - or even more - support as he gave Gaby). I also believe that to play Hogan, you have to play him up front with either McC in a 2 or having a „2nd row“ of Snod Grealish/O‘Hare/Hourihane & Adomah to feed him.

But thats the tall and short of it all. We have the players for different options. But we dont have a manager who wants us to play with options.

I honestly think we have good enough players, just look at the list. Even Injuries shouldn‘t throw us too much off course.

GK - SJ & JS

RB - RDL & Bree

RCB - Chester, Elphick & Jedi (before we start using Samba)

LCB - JT (Should never have sold Baker) NO ideal Back up - RDL, Bree or Elphick before Samba.

LB - NT - No ideal back up - even more of a reason to keep Baker as an emergency LB (no pace - at least some balance)

RW - Snod, Adomah or Elmo

LW - Green (inj) Adomah (Grealish at a push)

DM - Whelan, Jedi & Lyden

CM - Hourihane, Onomah & Lansbury

AM - McC, Grealish & O‘Hare

CF - Davis, JK, Hogan & (even) Gaby (v sha and used occasionally)

Now looking at all those players, we really shouldnt be „struggling to find a system that benefits our players over a year on“. I reckon half of the CH managers would have got some kind of conceptual pattern of play out of that lot.

We are going nowhere with Bruce in charge. The sooner he goes the more games we have left for a last chance push for promotion. He won‘t get us to 2nd with this method of management (tactics, formations, selections & substituation). He‘ll just scrape through, hanging by a thread and like last year when 10th turned into 13th, this year 3-6th will turn into 7/8th

IF, a combination of - our players being so much better than most others in this league AND the other teams being 1 - so inconsistant 2 - so threadbare, that we come 6th, is Steve Bruce the man we need in control of our destiny for a 2 legged semi final (home & away) and a possible Wembley final? NO

Bruce Out!

No tin hat on -> may the madness commence.

[sheepyvillian]

What can't be denied ,is that a lot of these non performing players are Bruce acquisitions, surely he brought them with a mind to fitting them into a system of play that he thinks will achieve success  . Hogan ,scoring for fun at Brentford , comes to us ,the least said the better, same with Bree ,comes with all the talk of a precocious talent ,now he's gone from first team football ,whilst a winger fills his position. Lansbury isn't what we thought he was ,and Hourihane,at times ,flatters to deceive . For all of them to fall short of the standard required is not a coincidence, I think they are finding it difficult to adapt to the way Bruce wants them to play . In the same way I'm finding it difficult to watch, it can't be much fun having to watch the ball fly over your head every other minute . Poor Hogan getting pelters, when really he hasn't had the opportunity to actually prove himself ,and tbh , if we continue to play in the same tedious way ,I doubt he ever will .

l

[sheepyvillian]

16 hours ago, villarocker said:

This ^^^^ needs to be written by a tabloid journalist so that a wider audience can see that it just isn't all about being in the Premier League - it's about being able to enjoy what we watch too!

PS: I work with an Albion fan that hates Pulis with a passion and says that he would rather see Albion in the Championship playing something close to exciting football than to just plod along being defence-mind, don't lose at all cost also-rans in the Premier League.

I really hope Pullis stays at Albion ,just so I've the comfort of knowing he isn't coming here .

I know if Bruce were sacked and Pullis was available ,you can guarantee we would be straight in for him . Imagine ? Stoke are still trying to erase the residue from the awful football he imposed upon them . Spare a thought for Johnny Evans. 

[Villarocker]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

I agree.

but you have to be able to defend too.

Making that point twice makes me question if TRO really is Steve Bruce in disguise  

Huddersfield played some decent footie last season but now they are in the top flight they have put a lot of emphasis on having a tight defence. 

I think it is all about finding the right balance. For me, I'd rather watch a game where my team tries to out-score the opposition rather than try to concede less.