Steve Bruce

[TRO]

2 hours ago, omariqy said:

Brentford will be a good test. We are at that point where we need to see an improvement in performance. If we don't then Wednesday will be very difficult. 

I am dreading Wednesday.

[KSV]

Doesn't take a genius nor an itk to figure out he's on probation with the new owners. Just because he has points on the board doesn't mean they are happy. I'm certainly not.. I watch football to be entertained and it's boring as bat shit at the moment. So so negative. Stifling what we have as very good players. Instilled a very negative mindset and approach to games. It's even worse this year as I think he's scared of losing now even more. Ignore Yoevil.. the three league games thus far..  we have been fortunate to get the wins. We didn't dominate or batter the team. We got fortunate with a late winner. Do not forget Hull Wigan and Ipswich are pretty poor sides. We have not played anyone of note as yet. Brentford will give us a bit more of an indication of where we are. 

[TRO]

12 minutes ago, av1 said:

On Hogan.

He could have done what competent  football managers do when looking to sign a player. 

Ie: Accessed what he needed, looked at his budget, and looked at players that suit the style of play he was looking to implement.

 

On Terry. 

Maybe not sign the bloke in the first place and use the bundles of money used on wages on someone that could give us more than one season. 

 

I find it quite ironic that Dr Xia gets lambasted (rightfully so) for gambling the clubs future on promotion, yet Bruce, who took the same short term gamble on Terry, Snodgrass, Johnstone and Grabban did exactly the same thing and no one bats an eyelid. 

Bruce knew about FFP, and therefore knew that none of those players were obtainable without promotion. He took the same gamble and he failed. 

It also doesn't help that most of the players he has signedon permanent deals aren't even good enough to get in tbe first 11. Our best players are those that the much derided RDM bought to the club. 

Well on Hogan.....Alan Shearer, would not necessarily agree with you, his argument is that the player has to adapt.

Blimey, if you were looking as you suggest, you would never sign anyone.....all teams play different to a degree.

I do happen to think more due diligence on character, in particular should be implimented.....but when a player struggles with a first touch or loses the ball too easily, i find it hard to blame the manager.

but who wouldn't have signed John Terry? or Snodgrass or Johnstone.....I think you are barking up the wrong tree.....We could so easily have gone up, its fine margins......How did Bayern feel when we beat them in the Euro cup......sometimes best teams don't always get over the line, thats the magic of football.

Edited August 19, 2018 by TRO

[delboy54]

Also dreading the Wednesday game, first season VP they played us off the park, and we were lucky to only draw. Last season same again....There was a little ginger headed lad who bossed the midfield for them....It will be a good test for us.

[Talldarkandransome]

Same arguments, day after day and week after week. It ain't gonna change so why lose sleep over it. Eventually he will leave and in his leaving speech he will say that he wished he could have changed it sooner. People that are set in their ways rarely change and if they do it is usually reluctantly. He has had success doing this so he probably sees no reason to change it. The owners will eventually see this and ask him to leave. There will be no point in making the statement of keeping Grealish by still being in this division next year. It won't change so either accept it or start lobbying for his removal. Either way, it won't be pleasant.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, omariqy said:

Brentford will be a good test. We are at that point where we need to see an improvement in performance. If we don't then Wednesday will be very difficult. 

I don't think we need a good test.....We all know what we are.

We need players in who we can rely on................Quick.

[Guest av1]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Well on Hogan.....Alan Shearer, would not necessarily agree with you, his argument is that the player has to adapt.

 

Honestly mate, what is the actual point of football manager if you're just going to blame the players. 

The majority of the players in the current squad that Bruce signed are shit. That is on Bruce. 

[Guest av1]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't think we need a good test.....We all know what we are.

We need players in who we can rely on................Quick.

Given his track record of signings to date, do you trust Bruce to find them?

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, av1 said:

The scary thing about the back 5 is that the only 2 that are any good were already at the club when Bruce joined. 

Imagine if RDM hadn't signed Chester? 

When you actually access Bruce's signings it gets even worse.

Bree - Doesn't get a look in

Taylor - is useless

Lansbury - Can't get a game

Hogan - £12m down the pan

Keepers x2 - look useless 

 

The bloke simply can not build a team. This is his 2nd full season, and the only decent players at the club are those that were here before his arrival.

I'm sure that point won't be lost on the new owners and the incoming board. 

He's made some good signings like Hourihane and McGinn, and his loan signings have been great on the whole. Snodgrass, Johnstone x2, Grabban, Terry on a free. Elmo has been good for us too. Give credit where it's due.

[AvfcRigo82]

33 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am dreading Wednesday.

So is Steve Bruce.

[TRO]

35 minutes ago, av1 said:

Honestly mate, what is the actual point of football manager if you're just going to blame the players. 

The majority of the players in the current squad that Bruce signed are shit. That is on Bruce. 

Blimey, that is some statement, are you insinuating they are all blameless?.....and if not, can you just write it all off as mitigation....It has a bearing on what a manager is trying to achieve.

• A failed back pass
• A fumbled catch
• A poor first touch
• A failed clearance
• Lack of  commitment
• A poor decision
• A over/underhit ball

I can think of plenty more reasons for not looking directly at the manager......and that goes for every other manager too.

I think you will find there is more aspects to the job than you are caring to admit too.....you are just highlighting some, albeit important ones ,granted.

I think that the manager is the most important single body in a football club and the most influential person on the team and how they play......right, (peg in the ground).

but I also think to make the earth move you have to have good players and that good means technically, character wise, attitude ( will to win) and physically adaptable, athleticism ( pace).

I think there are things you can blame the manager for and I think there are other things that they are more indirectly responsible for than Directly....I just think its any easy cop out to blame them for everything.

Is it the manager or the players?......In my view its both and they are interdependent.

Right now, I don't think the balance or competency of our team is right and we are playing too many players who are dragging the others down and its debatable if we have any ,any better to change them with.

When the team is right....and we are still playing the same inept brand of football, then I think its time to question the manager.

Unfortunately for us to prove all this,only results will do that......what we see on the park is in the eye of the beholder and difficult to prove, we can all agree, its turgid football at times and the first 4 games have primarily been that....but we are 4th after 3 games.

We cannot simply admit that we want/need 4/5 players and that has the blessing of the manager and Board and then simply say its down to coaching.....if it was simply down to coaching, no one would sanction the potential signing of that amount of players.

I am not saying the coaching is great and I am not saying that we play like a team....but I am trying to say you can't need 5 players and say its something else.....not at this point anyway, we need to fix that first and then revisit the problem, if there in fact is one after that.

Edited August 19, 2018 by TRO

[Guest av1]

4 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

He's made some good signings like Hourihane and McGinn, and his loan signings have been great on the whole. Snodgrass, Johnstone x2, Grabban, Terry on a free. Elmo has been good for us too. Give credit where it's due.

But the loan signings are gone, I'm accessing the current squad that has been built after 2 full seasons at the club. 

After 2 full seasons his is signings that started yesterday were:

Keeper - looks like a car crash

Elmo - Decent enough utility player, nothing norr.

Thor - Bang average 

McGinn - looks a player 

Axel - A promising CB that Bruce wants to turn onto our 84th RB. 

 

It doesn't make for pleasant reading reading pal. 

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, av1 said:

Given his track record of signings to date, do you trust Bruce to find them?

I have a very mixed view on that.

I am very perturbed on his position regarding centre back.....I don't think Axel is ready.....and I think a team going for promotion, could be a challenge for him.....we just can't afford mistakes and he is learning his craft.

He has made some good signings and some not so good....I think he has an even chance against any manager to attract players.....I have never heard anyone turn us down because the football is pants or Bruce has no idea....It seems to me that most prospective players have a contrary view.

I think for one reason or another, he has not been able to secure his first choice players and had to settle for players to suit the book.....Now I know that sounds a bit idealistic, but I think you know what I mean, within the realms of reason.

[Guest av1]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you will find there is more aspects to the job than you are caring to admit too.....you are just highlighting some, albeit important ones ,granted.

I think that the manager is the most important single body in a football club and the most influential person on the team and how they play......right, (peg in the ground).

 

We don't have any sort of cohesive style of play, so he hasn't got that right. 

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

But I also think to make the earth move you have to have good players and that good means technically, character wise, attitude ( will to win) and physically adaptable, athleticism ( pace).

 

The playershe signed, currently at the club are poor, so he hasn't got that right.

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

Right now, I don't think the balance or competency of our team is right and we are playing too many players who are dragging the others down and its debatable if we have any ,any better to change them with.

 

The best players at the club are those that were already here when joined the club. It's his poor signings and tactics that are dragging them down. 

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

When the team is right....and we are still playing the same inept brand of football, then I think its time to question the manager.

 

This is his 2nd full season, how long does he get to 'get the team right?

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

We cannot simply admit that we want/need 4/5 players and that has the blessing of the manager and Board and then simply say its down to coaching.....if it was simply down to coaching, no one would sanction the potential signing of that amount of players.

 

We need 4/5 because the majority of his signings currently at the the club have failed. 

 

[villalad21]

Maybe i'm alone here but i'd rather see us play attacking football and end up mid to upper half of the table than to play negative Bruce football eventually getting promoted and getting 7-8 wins in Preimier League.

Then there's also the financial aspect to all of this. Getting promoted means all that tv revenue and i understand that. 

At the end of the day we all want to see our team have a positive approach but it's a result business and gambling on a more offensive coach might backfire, alot.

Edited August 19, 2018 by villalad21

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, av1 said:

We don't have any sort of cohesive style of play, so he hasn't got that right. 

The playershe signed, currently at the club are poor, so he hasn't got that right.

The best players at the club are those that were already here when joined the club. It's his poor signings and tactics that are dragging them down. 

This is his 2nd full season, how long does he get to 'get the team right?

We need 4/5 because the majority of his signings currently at the the club have failed. 

 

So if the players are no good and I say IF......how can coaching or tactics be expected to make all that right.?.....to the degree we are looking for.

You see, if the players were better, the coaching and tactics would possibly not be so much of an issue.

my point is one problem area, can create so many elsewhere.

I can watch a game right now and drive myself nuts, so much looks wrong.....but I am aware that a few fixes, will have a knock on effect.

Edited August 19, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

58 minutes ago, delboy54 said:

Also dreading the Wednesday game, first season VP they played us off the park, and we were lucky to only draw. Last season same again....There was a little ginger headed lad who bossed the midfield for them....It will be a good test for us.

Ryan Woods.....would have gone for him.

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

You have to be aware.....The opinions on here in the main are not representative of the overall opinions elsewhere.

I think Steve Bruce has more support than you think.

That is not to say they all think he is perfect.....but we have already seen the Gary Rowett saga at Blues. It sent them in to a tail spin.

People i speak to Villa Fans and others and I mention so many want him out on here.....they just give a derisory grin and say "are you joking"

 

The owners will not be bothered about popular opinion.

It's his 3rd season and still no improvement in style, no apparent system. We relief all the time on a moment of brilliance a bit of good play. You said yourself we cannot go on playing in this way. A loss in the week and we could be 5 points off the promotion places again............

For me he is not the man to improve us.

 

[Dale]

20 minutes ago, TRO said:

So if the players are no good and I say IF......how can coaching or tactics be expected to make all that right.?.....to the degree we are looking for.

You see, if the players were better, the coaching and tactics would possibly not be so much of an issue.

my point is one problem area, can create so many elsewhere.

I can watch a game right now and drive myself nuts, so much looks wrong.....but I am aware that a few fixes, will have a knock on effect.

Swansea in their promotion campaigns and subsequent years in the Premier league for much of it lacked a particularly strong squad. They had a style which worked, Routledge looked class, Scott Sinclair got a transfer to Man City, they turned average players into something more than the sum of their parts. Bruce at best gets the sum of the parts, but never more. Brentford's squad is truly bang average and yet they're in the mix for playoffs season after season. I want someone who can place us above where the squad looks like they should be - unless that's avoiding relegation by grinding out results; I don't see Bruce doing that. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by Dale

[Guest av1]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

So if the players are no good and I say IF......how can coaching or tactics be expected to make all that right.?.....to the degree we are looking for.

You see, if the players were better, the coaching and tactics would possibly not be so much of an issue.

 

They either are good or they aren't, whichever viewpoint you take, your argument still points towards Bruces failings. 

1) if the squad of players that Bruce has assembled aren't good enough, that's down to Bruce. 

2) if they are good enough, the fact that they haven't been coached into a cohesive unit, and play such a terrible style of football, is again down to Bruce. 

All roads lead to the Manager. He is failing, and if we don't replace as soon as possible this club will continue to fail.