Steve Bruce

[Stevo985]

If Ipswich play anything like they did last season then I hope people watch how they play, and realise what a real hoofball team is  

[DaveAV1]

I’m 55 I’ve supported Villa since I was a boy. Outside of my family and a few close friends Aston Villa mean more to me than anything. I went to my first games when we were in the old 3rd division, I was at Highbury and Rotterdam. Up to and including last season I was a season ticket holder, but we moved to the Highlands of Scotland last August and didn’t attend many games. So this season after more years than I can remember, I couldn’t really justify a season ticket.

I neither hate, or even dislike the manager and do not constantly slag him off, I’m just critical of some of the things he does and I believe we could do better managerially. It’s a poor argument when you need to resort to attacking the messenger just because you have different views. I take it that you only comment on things that you have only seen with your own two eyes and don’t glean any information from reading reports or speaking to people? A pretty narrow field of view. 

I’m an Aston Villa supporter, I want what is best for the club I love, as I’m sure all the other posters in here do, including you. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me and neither do I expect to agree with all of the varied views expressed in here. But what I do expect is my opinions to be taken as just that, my opinion, agreeable or otherwise and not a reason to question why I should support Aston Villa. I afford the same respect to every other poster, even though I think some are wrong. I may disagree and question why they hold such opinion, but I never question their right to hold that opinion or cast doubts over their support. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by blandy

[Jareth]

6 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I neither hate, or even dislike the manager and do not constantly slag him off, I’m just critical of some of the things he does and I believe we could do better managerially.

Probably where I am on Bruce. Sort of have a nagging desire to upgrade him.

[AntrimBlack]

27 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I’m 55 I’ve supported Villa since I was a boy. Outside of my family and a few close friends Aston Villa mean more to me than anything. I went to my first games when we were in the old 3rd division, I was at Highbury and Rotterdam. Up to and including last season I was a season ticket holder, but we moved to the Highlands of Scotland last August and didn’t attend many games. So this season after more years than I can remember, I couldn’t really justify a season ticket.

I neither hate, or even dislike the manager and do not constantly slag him off, I’m just critical of some of the things he does and I believe we could do better managerially. It’s a poor argument when you need to resort to attacking the messenger just because you have different views. I take it that you only comment on things that you have only seen with your own two eyes and don’t glean any information from reading reports or speaking to people? A pretty narrow field of view. 

I’m an Aston Villa supporter, I want what is best for the club I love, as I’m sure all the other posters in here do, including you. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me and neither do I expect to agree with all of the varied views expressed in here. But what I do expect is my opinions to be taken as just that, my opinion, agreeable or otherwise and not a reason to question why I should support Aston Villa. I afford the same respect to every other poster, even though I think some are wrong. I may disagree and question why they hold such opinion, but I never question their right to hold that opinion or cast doubts over their support. 

This is a great site, but can at times have an atmosphere of intimidation created by a superior, sneering attitude by a very small minority of posters. Which is a real shame. UTV. 

Good post, Dave. Well said.

[villabromsgrove]

We've won three games out of three and I still think that Bruce is not the man to lead the Villa rebuild.

That might seem unreasonable based purely on results, but what I'm watching is worryingly muddled football, relying on luck and moments of individual skill, and STILL without an apparent plan.

Why wait until the wheels come off before reacting to the obvious shortcomings of SB? 

[Dodgyknees]

25 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

We've won three games out of three and I still think that Bruce is not the man to lead the Villa rebuild.

That might seem unreasonable based purely on results, but what I'm watching is worryingly muddled football, relying on luck and moments of individual skill, and STILL without an apparent plan.

Why wait until the wheels come off before reacting to the obvious shortcomings of SB? 

 

New owners have given him the chance, and we should too. The hope is that he has seen that the previous way, whilst effective in short bursts, is not a long-term solution. His interview last night shows he is under pressure. Fingers crossed this means we look to change the way we play, to benefit the decent players we have.

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I’m 55 I’ve supported Villa since I was a boy. Outside of my family and a few close friends Aston Villa mean more to me than anything. I went to my first games when we were in the old 3rd division, I was at Highbury and Rotterdam. Up to and including last season I was a season ticket holder, but we moved to the Highlands of Scotland last August and didn’t attend many games. So this season after more years than I can remember, I couldn’t really justify a season ticket.

I neither hate, or even dislike the manager and do not constantly slag him off, I’m just critical of some of the things he does and I believe we could do better managerially. It’s a poor argument when you need to resort to attacking the messenger just because you have different views. I take it that you only comment on things that you have only seen with your own two eyes and don’t glean any information from reading reports or speaking to people? A pretty narrow field of view. 

I’m an Aston Villa supporter, I want what is best for the club I love, as I’m sure all the other posters in here do, including you. I don’t expect everyone to agree with me and neither do I expect to agree with all of the varied views expressed in here. But what I do expect is my opinions to be taken as just that, my opinion, agreeable or otherwise and not a reason to question why I should support Aston Villa. I afford the same respect to every other poster, even though I think some are wrong. I may disagree and question why they hold such opinion, but I never question their right to hold that opinion or cast doubts over their support. 

This is a great site, but can at times have an atmosphere of intimidation created by a superior, sneering attitude by a very small minority of posters. Which is a real shame. UTV. 

I wasn't doubting your support, which is what you may be implying in this response, but just genuinely wondered what you get out of it at this moment in time.

I mean, you say you neither hate or even dislike the manager, but every post you make regarding him seems to be negative.  We're going through our best period in recent years (granted, in a league below where we want to be) but there's a group of posters (and, again, fine - opinions are what we live on) just constantly posting negative things.  Look at this state of this thread - it's a joke!

Apologies if you feel I'm being superior or sneering, that wasn't my intention at all.  Was a genuine question regarding what you're getting out of the team right now.  You want the manager gone, every victory is seemingly followed up with negative posts - where's the benefit?

 

As an aside, I'm probably actually where you are generally - I think Bruce is limited and ultimately I'd like to see a lovely, attacking, fast paced side.  However, we're doing well.  We finished 4th and missed out on promotion by a tiny margin. We've won 3 out of 3 this season.  This isn't "failing considering our resources" or whatever else keeps getting trotted out (not by you) - how are people not satisfied right now?  We've been a state for years and Bruce has helped turn it round.  I guess I'd just like to read people getting behind it all rather than slagging it off all the time.  Differences of opinion are great, repetitive criticism really isn't.

I'm probably done for this thread tbh - but good post anyway Dave.

[Digavilla]

I am a Asian Villa fan since 17 & am now 49.. I just subscribed to official Villa TV for £180 in order to watch Villa games on a small tablet or Phone .. no other choices as streaming is blocked here even with VPN.  I don’t know anyone else who did the same , but i do know many friends subscribed to watch other teams Premier League teams like City , Chelsea etc & at much higher cost for eg To watch Wolves is about £580, £400 more than Villa & I do know of many friend who signed up ... the main reason they said is they like to watch their brand of football.

Its official TV/ official Streaming is the main revenue earner not season tickets anymore : https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/44850888

If we do not have an attractive/ progressive brand of football that’s not only catered to the taste of newer viewers, especially international ones , we will be left far behind in terms of revenue & with FFP in place , I do see us being here for a long while.

Bruce is a nice man I am sure , but sadly in this modern world of football, his style of football is never going to attract new fans or keep old ones ... 

[blandy]

5 hours ago, osmark86 said:

One of the most glaring problems we have right now is that we are not mobile enough. We're making it so difficult for ourselves finding options to pass to which hampers the speed at which we can break. I believe this could be rectified quite easily by enforcing a style where at least one or two players follow the player with the ball giving him options....

... this needs to be rectified and that falls on Bruce and his coaches. we will be found out by other teams this season unless we improve here. ... I'm not very convinced anymore that Bruce et al are able to achieve this however.

Yeah. Something I've belatedly realised is that you very rarely see Villa play one touch football with "triangles" pinging it around, pass and move. It's like the default is player gets ball takes a touch, has a look to see who or what is on or around, takes another touch, then passes the ball, often back or sideways. There's frequently too much distance between players, frequently the forward option is closely marked, and it's either knock it back or sideways, or into a space out wide for a wide player to chase. Speed of thought and movement and one touch passing is much absent from most of our play. It's absolutely 100% a coaching/management thing.

[DaveAV1]

56 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I wasn't doubting your support, which is what you may be implying in this response, but just genuinely wondered what you get out of it at this moment in time.

I mean, you say you neither hate or even dislike the manager, but every post you make regarding him seems to be negative.  We're going through our best period in recent years (granted, in a league below where we want to be) but there's a group of posters (and, again, fine - opinions are what we live on) just constantly posting negative things.  Look at this state of this thread - it's a joke!

Apologies if you feel I'm being superior or sneering, that wasn't my intention at all.  Was a genuine question regarding what you're getting out of the team right now.  You want the manager gone, every victory is seemingly followed up with negative posts - where's the benefit?

 

As an aside, I'm probably actually where you are generally - I think Bruce is limited and ultimately I'd like to see a lovely, attacking, fast paced side.  However, we're doing well.  We finished 4th and missed out on promotion by a tiny margin. We've won 3 out of 3 this season.  This isn't "failing considering our resources" or whatever else keeps getting trotted out (not by you) - how are people not satisfied right now?  We've been a state for years and Bruce has helped turn it round.  I guess I'd just like to read people getting behind it all rather than slagging it off all the time.  Differences of opinion are great, repetitive criticism really isn't.

I'm probably done for this thread tbh - but good post anyway Dave.

Perhaps I’m a bit sensitive when it comes to Villa, and may have reacted in a way which misjudged your intentions. However in my opinion Steve Bruce has history when it comes to shifting blame away from himself. 

As for getting behind the team that’s what I’ve done since I was “chosen” almost 50 years ago. During matches I’m 100% very vocally supportive, I’ve never booed and for me that is a big no no. Expressing opinion on here, I think you’ll agree is largely an irrelevance. 

I have, quite recently, expressed support for a lot of aspects of SB’s management. The players clearly like him, as do I as a bloke, and there is no doubt the team spirit is a million miles better than when he arrived. I think last season he built a decent squad, albeit short term. But that’s what I think he was employed to do and most managers are fairly short term in their thinking due to the impatient nature of the business. 

Essentially he’s not a bad manager, more a frustrating one. I think he’s not really sure of what the team needs and so is tentative and driven by a fear of losing. I’m less bothered about the negative style, Warnock got Cardiff promoted with it. The difference being perhaps he knew exactly what he wanted, and wasn’t under the same sort of pressure as SB inevitably is. I just never feel confident that we can win games, so I hope he continues to prove me wrong. UTV

[dn1982]

3 wins with 1 crap performance 1 bad performance and 1 I enjoyed but need to do a lot better (Wigan) performance. Ive accepted Bruce won’t get us playing like Brentford and it’ll be individual performances that’s win us most games but what’s im finding baffling is the way Bruce state should we must do better but doesn’t seem to be able to understand that’s his job. For an experienced manager to come out time and again and say it but he’s teams dont actually play any better is baffling. Last night I watched Whelan run away from our keeper every time he had the ball instead of looking to get it and start our play. He takes too long to do anything and we’d end up playing too slow and infront of a packed defence. That’s why we struggled until Jack came on. JDH should’ve played DM that’s his role mainly. I hope  Bruce’s can get in 3 ready made players so the team improves as he can’t do do that through coaching. We are lucky we have an easy start and until Brentford and Sheff Utd we won’t know if we are any good but regardless of Bruce if we keep Jack fit we will be involved. 

[ciggiesnbeer]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

Yeah. Something I've belatedly realised is that you very rarely see Villa play one touch football with "triangles" pinging it around, pass and move. It's like the default is player gets ball takes a touch, has a look to see who or what is on or around, takes another touch, then passes the ball, often back or sideways. There's frequently too much distance between players, frequently the forward option is closely marked, and it's either knock it back or sideways, or into a space out wide for a wide player to chase. Speed of thought and movement and one touch passing is much absent from most of our play. It's absolutely 100% a coaching/management thing.

Good post. My memory maybe wrong here but the one time we did it yesterday was leading up to the goal if I recall? Our half right hand side? But regardless, yes, more possession, more skill. We have the players and  we CERTAINLY have the players against league 2 opposition.

It also would suit us better, we are a slow team, there is no getting around it. So playing a fast direct game along the wings is not going to be as effective as a possession based build up style play.

[villa89]

7 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

What I find out of order is the fact he manages to distance himself from any responsibility

You should have expected that. He does it after every bad performance like it was nothing to do with him. 

[villa89]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

Yeah. Something I've belatedly realised is that you very rarely see Villa play one touch football with "triangles" pinging it around, pass and move. It's like the default is player gets ball takes a touch, has a look to see who or what is on or around, takes another touch, then passes the ball, often back or sideways. There's frequently too much distance between players, frequently the forward option is closely marked, and it's either knock it back or sideways, or into a space out wide for a wide player to chase. Speed of thought and movement and one touch passing is much absent from most of our play. It's absolutely 100% a coaching/management thing.

We've had that problem for a long time but Bruce and RDM in recent times were the only managers who had the budget and playing staff to fix it. Too bad neither was a good enough manager to actually do it. 

Most of the teams in the championship would kill to have our budget and players but instead of playing like man city we play like Bolton under fat Sam without the structure. At least fat Sam had a style of play, we just make it up as we go along. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, villa89 said:

You should have expected that. He does it after every bad performance like it was nothing to do with him. 

Didn't Frank Lampard lambast his team in his post Match Interview after the Leeds game?......I have heard many managers  talk in that vein.

I take it as read, that the managers are blaming themselves too, when they do that.

The manager is part of the team, but a non playing participant, like the coaches.

Did Steve Bruce take all the glory when we beat Wolves?.....No he just spoke about the team.

Why look for innuendo?

of course the managers are responsible for their teams performances....but even they know that.

 

Edited August 15, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

Yeah. Something I've belatedly realised is that you very rarely see Villa play one touch football with "triangles" pinging it around, pass and move. It's like the default is player gets ball takes a touch, has a look to see who or what is on or around, takes another touch, then passes the ball, often back or sideways. There's frequently too much distance between players, frequently the forward option is closely marked, and it's either knock it back or sideways, or into a space out wide for a wide player to chase. Speed of thought and movement and one touch passing is much absent from most of our play. It's absolutely 100% a coaching/management thing.

I don't disagree with your assessment Pete....but I have reservations about your conclusions

I think speed of thought is intrinsic and comes with how good a player you are.....In saying that, I am not defending the coaching, because I simply don't know what is causing what you are witnessing.....but I do see the same.

If I was pressed, I would say its down to the quality of the player.....and watching John McGinn for the first time, i feel even more confident......If his game goes down the pan, then I may be persuaded to side with you.

[blandy]

26 minutes ago, villa89 said:

.... At least fat Sam had a style of play, we just make it up as we go along. 

That’s half right I think. One of the plus sides of Bruce is the spirit and togetherness and I think that comes from his trust of players, so an approach that leaves it to the players to do what they think right (within a framework) basically means they trust, like and respect him for giving them responsibility, whereas with fat Sam it’s much more do exactly as you’re told all the time. It’s maybe a reason for people like @TRO to hold the opinion that the players aren’t good enough, because, if that analysis is right, then he’s got a point. My view is that with more instruction and coaching to play differently, by and large they most certainly are good enough. But I don’t see anything in Bruce’s history that says he’ll change his methods. Same as with fat Sam, you get what you know you’ll get. Expecting change is pointless. It ain’t gonna happen. 

[blandy]

Ha. Hadn’t seen your post above when I just wrote that @TRO 

[AvfcRigo82]

Out of interest and apologies if this has been mentioned or covered already, but did anyone else see Bruces post match interview last night after the game? It looked like he had bawled his eyes out moments before coming to do the interview.  Strange.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

That’s half right I think. One of the plus sides of Bruce is the spirit and togetherness and I think that comes from his trust of players, so an approach that leaves it to the players to do what they think right (within a framework) basically means they trust, like and respect him for giving them responsibility, whereas with fat Sam it’s much more do exactly as you’re told all the time. It’s maybe a reason for people like @TRO to hold the opinion that the players aren’t good enough, because, if that analysis is right, then he’s got a point. My view is that with more instruction and coaching to play differently, by and large they most certainly are good enough. But I don’t see anything in Bruce’s history that says he’ll change his methods. Same as with fat Sam, you get what you know you’ll get. Expecting change is pointless. It ain’t gonna happen. 

Just a point Pete....I'm not saying all our players are not good enough, only some.....and furthermore,to make it more confusing sometimes the same ones are good enough.

let me give you an example.

Albert Adomah

Last season, he started as a squad player on the peripheral, moved his status to regular due to his impact on the team....He was at one time, an integral part of our improvement in results.

Now, I presume there was no change in coaching during the period Albert had his purple patch and him going on Holiday in c Feb/March.

Players who lose form for long periods or it goes up and down like a fiddlers elbow....are in my book, not good enough...consistency is a central ingredient as to how good a player is.

I believe the players who played for the teams that went up were more consistent in their form, than ours.

This passage is an observation.....its not me saying our coaching is not to be judged.

I watch the games and I think at times ( with empathy)they have never seen a coach.....then I watch the individual and think how can a coach have an influence on that, that is just poor play..... A poor first touch or a poorly weight back pass....or a lack of awareness of a player getting around the back of us ( POF) Poor decision making.

I am not naive enough to think all coaches are blameless....but I also think some things they are blamed for... are actually the player themselves.

Just as an added point......Jack did dedicated strength training after his injury and the results are amazing how it has affected his game.....It would do well for some players who have lost their form to do some additional dedicated work on their weaknesses, to regain confidence.

assuming they are not already doing that.

Edited August 15, 2018 by TRO