Dave J Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 7 hours ago, terrytini said: I don’t agree, and to be honest find the views of those who think we “ should” be this or that naive and/ or arrogant in the extreme. Theres not a Club or Manager in the World that can guarantee anything, ( as in any other walk of life). And to think there is no difference between losing a Play Off final and finishing 10th is misguided. Surely Terry - you cannot say that those who hold a difffering opinion to the one that you hold are arrogant? I would call this healthy football debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 7 hours ago, terrytini said: And, he will have missed it by 1 game, if he misses it, whether you call it spin or not. If we don’t get promoted, and it’s a massive IF because we are going to win on Saturday. I think the club would and should be looking at it as missing promotion by 8 points rather than one game and considering whether the Bruce can improve on this season based on what he will have available to him. Or whether it’s worth taking a risk on someone new. If on the other hand the target for next season is playoffs then it would probably make sense to keep Bruce as manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 52 minutes ago, Dave J said: Surely Terry - you cannot say that those who hold a difffering opinion to the one that you hold are arrogant? I would call this healthy football debate. No I don’t mean it’s arrogant to have a different view to me, apologies if that’s how it read to you. I indeed think it’s a healthy debate, and, for the most part, a fair one. Arrogants the wrong word, and I can’t think of the right one just now ! Let’s just say I have a negative view of those @JAMAICAN-VILLAN was referring to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Dave J said: And there lies the crux of it all - WHOLE picture it's not about if we lose on Saturday Terry -!the larger overview of his tenure is under scrutiny imo Yes. And of course you, or the Club, may make that assessment in the negative. I wouldn’t. But it will be the whole picture, not just “ you didn’t get promotion you’ve failed”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If we don’t get promoted, and it’s a massive IF because we are going to win on Saturday. I think the club would and should be looking at it as missing promotion by 8 points rather than one game and considering whether the Bruce can improve on this season based on what he will have available to him. Or whether it’s worth taking a risk on someone new. If on the other hand the target for next season is playoffs then it would probably make sense to keep Bruce as manager. That first paragraphs fair enough as well. Edited May 24, 2018 by terrytini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: If we don’t get promoted, and it’s a massive IF because we are going to win on Saturday. I think the club would and should be looking at it as missing promotion by 8 points rather than one game and considering whether the Bruce can improve on this season based on what he will have available to him. Or whether it’s worth taking a risk on someone new. If on the other hand the target for next season is playoffs then it would probably make sense to keep Bruce as manager. I don't think 8 points would be a very fair analysis, since it includes the Millwall game in which we were barely trying, but I take your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I don't think 8 points would be a very fair analysis, since it includes the Millwall game in which we were barely trying, but I take your point. Fair enough but we’d pretty much conceded top 2 after the Norwich game id say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DakotaVilla Posted May 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2018 I’d wager that the outcome this season would have been very different if we hadn’t lost Kodija all season, lost Grealish for half the season nor lost Terry for a quarter of a season. Yes, Bruce spent a lot of money and yes the Football has been painful at times but it’s worth remembering how rotten our club had become. It takes time to turn around a tanker the size of our club. I’ve never been a Bruce fan but he’s earned my respect this season - particularly with the huge personal difficulties he’s also navigated this season. He’ll get my full admiration if we win on Saturday but I hope that he is still our manager come August - regardless of the division that we are in. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dounavilla Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 You would also have to consider the unbelievably good runs by Cardiff and to a degree Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, terrytini said: No I don’t mean it’s arrogant to have a different view to me, apologies if that’s how it read to you. I indeed think it’s a healthy debate, and, for the most part, a fair one. Arrogants the wrong word, and I can’t think of the right one just now ! Let’s just say I have a negative view of those @JAMAICAN-VILLAN was referring to. Personally I see similarities here with politics. Some people lean one way or the other to an extreme, and won't accept any sort of sensible opinion or debate no matter what. While some are balanced and accepting of different opinions and gauging. Personally I try to be balanced, and like most fans sometimes my emotions get the better of me. I really don't think we can down play the gravity of promotion though, nor the reason why people are frustrated or feel we should/could have done better than to have our chances hinge on a "tournament" if you will. Edited May 24, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted May 24, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 24, 2018 13 hours ago, terrytini said: That’s just it in a nutshell though. You say it means nothing if we lose, but - in my view - it doesn’t mean nothing, it’s priceless, been missing for years, and isn’t just conjured up out of thin air. It is very very important and THE key reason it makes more sense to keep him than to start all over again. This thing we loosely call ‘ team spirit’ has been absent from this Club for longer than I care to remember. quoting from new manager speculation thread because it's already 20 pages too long and don't want to add to that... i 100% agree with this and is why win or lose saturday we stick with bruce and keep at it. there will be some comings and goings as there is every summer but i do think the core spirit will remain. the smiles on the players faces on the training pitch is there to see and yes i know there will be an element of PR in that from the club, but i refuse to believe someone is there saying "come on boys, smile for the camera"...i don't remember a season where there has been so much positivity coming out of the club seemingly from all angles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Dave J said: Surely Terry - you cannot say that those who hold a difffering opinion to the one that you hold are arrogant? I would call this healthy football debate. I'd call it an absolute joke, on the eve of the biggest game we've had in McGrath knows how long. But, each to their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 On 18/05/2018 at 19:14, poitier said: I know there isn't a great deal of love for Paul Lambert on here, but I'm not so sure that getting this squad promoted is a greater achievement than Lambert keeping us up for two seasons. That isn't a knock at Bruce, but he is managing the team in a generally supportive atmosphere from the owner, Lambert was having to firefight when everything was going down the pan. It's an interesting point. When you think of the financial constraints, Lambert had to work under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 40 minutes ago, tomav84 said: quoting from new manager speculation thread because it's already 20 pages too long and don't want to add to that... i 100% agree with this and is why win or lose saturday we stick with bruce and keep at it. there will be some comings and goings as there is every summer but i do think the core spirit will remain. the smiles on the players faces on the training pitch is there to see and yes i know there will be an element of PR in that from the club, but i refuse to believe someone is there saying "come on boys, smile for the camera"...i don't remember a season where there has been so much positivity coming out of the club seemingly from all angles That spirit comes from winning games, which Bruce, to his credit, has done. However that spirit can only be maintained by the club being successful. It's absurd to suggest that should we lose on Saturday and Bruce is sacked we'll be doomed. If a new manager came in and immediately got us off to a winning start, then I'm quite certain the team spirit would be fine. It's success that breeds positivity. What if Bruce does stay, regardless of us not achieving promotion, and then next season it all goes pear shaped ? You think the positive vibes won't go the same way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 Us staying up those two seasons was pretty much entirely down to Benteke. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted May 24, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted May 24, 2018 9 hours ago, dounavilla said: You would also have to consider the unbelievably good runs by Cardiff and to a degree Fulham. Another mitigating factor is the Mendez/Wolves model. Having Champions League level players and manager basically eradicated one of the automatic spots this year. You can't legislate for that unique situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 14 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: Another mitigating factor is the Mendez/Wolves model. Having Champions League level players and manager basically eradicated one of the automatic spots this year. You can't legislate for that unique situation. True but even if you take wolves out the mix we would have fallen short. But see where you are coming from. It’s been a very difficult year for automatic promotion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 I wonder if people will be posting about how Bruce has failed/should be sacked during the actual match on Saturday? Wouldn't put it past one or two.£ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pacbuddies Posted May 24, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 24, 2018 4 hours ago, TheAuthority said: Another mitigating factor is the Mendez/Wolves model. Having Champions League level players and manager basically eradicated one of the automatic spots this year. You can't legislate for that unique situation. And don't forget the Warnock/Cardiff model. No way could anyone legislate for that! 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 24, 2018 Author Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) Bruce pin up jonkavics comments about us on the wall. If that isn't a team talk I don't know what is The arrogance of them. They really do think this is going to be a walk in the park for them Edited May 24, 2018 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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