Kiwivillan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, Nabby said: Kieth Andrews said we rely on individuals as we have no game plan ..hardly backing Bruce that That's been my main criticism of Bruce from the off 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Seems laughable now reading this day before QPR game https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2018/03/12/robert-snodgrass-aston-villas-players-would-run-through-walls-for-boss-steve-bruce/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, vreitti said: The win over Wolves was extraordinary alright, but considering how we've performed as a whole this season against all of the promotion contenders, how confident are you we'll be able to replicate that one-off performance, when push comes to shove? Wolves had periods where they out played us by spreading the play well as they did in the first game. We won IMO as we worked harder than them and we we got chances we took them .Bolton physically out muscled and matched our work rate .The conditions helped them as we couldn't attack with any pace and once they scored it meant they could just sit off us as the game went on Bruce IMO panicked and threw on too many strikers and we lost control of the game altogether .I mentioned on another thread do you think in training we have every trained with 4 strikers on the pitch at the same time ? That's what people are getting at about a Plan B and reliance on individuals our game plan at the end was 4 strikers you all stand up front , Jack you get the ball and try and give it to one of them to score ..we all know as well if Samba had been on the bench he would have been brought on to lump it to upfront 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I was happy with the starting line up as it’s what I would’ve gone for. Apart from the goal, we did little wrong first half. By the second half was very poor. Very odd substitutions, putting people into a system that offered nothing. I didn’t understand why we brought on RHM ahead of Davis or Hogan, and then when we did bring them on RHM was still the “main striker” target. I think Bruce is a good manager at this level, and at times he has shown some great managerial skills. I’d still trust him to manage us well in the play offs. I don’t agree, that we have no game plan and rely on individual brilliance. That’s an easy throw away comment and could be lambasted at any manager... Barcelona best Chelsea 3-0, but arguably Chelsea were the better team. Barcelona just had Messi... it can happen in any game, better players should always go off the game plan, a moment of individual brilliance can win most sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, TRO said: Smithy......you are missing my point. Of course he has to shoulder blame, but its in the context we are debating. I don't think anything his coaches or him would do much different in the space of three days to get the disparity of performances.....thats the players. Its over a period of time that managers get judged. So you agree he shoulders blame? then why constantly defend him and deflect all failures to others and to things he can’t control? (Not just you of course) so, maybe better to ask.. in your opinion, what does he shoulder blame for? What is the appropriate reaction to those particular “failings.” (You can use a different word) All this discussion In context that I hope he and the bunch he assembles, prepares, and selects, gain promotion this year. As do you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted March 18, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, TRO said: Steve McLaren and Keith Andrews did their match review and highlighted the Issues they thought were our weaknesses.......They did not say Steve Bruce is at fault, TRO as you know I always respect your opinion but the statement above is factually incorrect. Keith Andrews did criticise team planing (too reliant on individuals) which was thinly veiled criticism of Bruce. Personally as I mentioned in the game reaction thread I think Bruce got it wrong against QPR and tonight again. Last fifteen minutes of the first halve tonight Villa looked very dangerous and I couldn’t envisage them not scoring. However Bruce panicked and needlessly went with two up front when it wasn’t needed. From that point onward Villa lost all cohesion and rarely threatened again. No doubt in my mind Bruce has cost Villa points this season by not utilising the squad enough and being tactically inept. I also watched Terry closely. Struggling to turn or even run at jogging pace now. That’s not criticism for the sake of it. Terry has played far more this season than I ever expected and has been a revelation for Villa but the international break has come at the right time for him and maybe some of the other older players as well who are starting to look decidedly leggy. Edited March 18, 2018 by striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 hour ago, srsmithusa said: So you agree he shoulders blame? then why constantly defend him and deflect all failures to others and to things he can’t control? (Not just you of course) so, maybe better to ask.. in your opinion, what does he shoulder blame for? What is the appropriate reaction to those particular “failings.” (You can use a different word) All this discussion In context that I hope he and the bunch he assembles, prepares, and selects, gain promotion this year. As do you. Why, do i defend him, because i don't believe its ALL entirely his fault. and if i think there are things he can't control on the pitch, like a parks approach to their goal.....then i will defend him.....or a failure to deal with the muscle of Beevers, thats not his fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 48 minutes ago, TRO said: Why, do i defend him, because i don't believe its ALL entirely his fault. and if i think there are things he can't control on the pitch, like a parks approach to their goal.....then i will defend him.....or a failure to deal with the muscle of Beevers, thats not his fault. Regardless of whose to blame , the manager will, I'm afraid, carry the can. They didn't look as galvanized as they should be to me, certainly in comparison to Bolton, and that falls at the managers doorstep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 hours ago, TRO said: Why, do i defend him, because i don't believe its ALL entirely his fault. and if i think there are things he can't control on the pitch, like a parks approach to their goal.....then i will defend him.....or a failure to deal with the muscle of Beevers, thats not his fault. You didnt respond to my questions. What does he shoulder the blame for? What is the appropriate reaction to those particular “failings?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 hours ago, TRO said: Rubbish.....are you trying to tell me all the work during his time has been a waste.....absolute garbage. was all Vic Crowes work a waste of time because he wasn't Ron Saunders. sorry Dave, i do see some of your points, but not this. Yes, we are capable of beating Fulham in the play offs, if we stay there. We have just found a level of performance I didn't think we had in us an On that basis we will struggle to win another game. but we all know, we are capable of beating anyone......I don't know which one the real Villa is. Steve Bruce needs to find out quickly, whats happening. I don't want to be discussing the managers job after every reversal.....He was clearly not expecting that response today. How do you feel about the fancied one to replace him in some quarters, taking off his 2 most inflential players with 20 odd minutes to go and failing to win the game. Its tedious to keep blaming the manager after every reversal, even if he does have issues to answer to. He is here until the end of the season and so are the players. TRO - I am one of Bruce's detractors on here and not happy with the last two results but in no way am I clamouring for his head - he is here to stay for now and rightly so - however if we implode and do not make the play - offs this year then I'm afraid in my view he should go. would you not agree that his remit for the past two seasons has been to achieve promotion? I say again if the club did not expect Bruce to deliver last season why sack RDM after only 11 games? Back to my point promotion has been his remit and therefore if not achieved you cannot disguise this as anything but failure imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 hours ago, TRO said: It depends on the interpretation. was there a game plan against Wolves? I think there is a gameplan......whether players stick to it or execute it successfully is another debate....thats what I think Keith Andrews was intimating. Personally i don't believe any professional football manager does not have a Gameplan, even Sunderland have. The question is......is it executed successfully that is down to the players doing their individual jobs to form a team.....the manager then changes it if its not being adhered to.......if very few are winning their individual duels ( intimated bt Steve McLaren) then it becomes tricky....i guess thats when strange things are done like 4 strikers...throwing caution to the wind. Bruce himself said he got it wrong on Tuesday night and how many times has he made similar comments this season. How many many points has he cost us? And what the f ING hell was HIS gameplane when we had 4 strikers on the pitch with Jack and Thor as our midfield. If you think the players have let him down then please explain how the final 20 minutes was their fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mykeyb Posted March 18, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2018 Without going over old ground I believe Bruce has got us where we are because he has a good squad who can produce moments of brilliance that can win games. I genuinely believe if he was managing Brentford this season they would not be as high up as they are as they don't have as many of those players Dean Smith has Brentford where they are because of his coaching and tactics and that's the big difference. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted March 18, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted March 18, 2018 13 hours ago, holteend1982 said: players let him down today. their keeper made some great saves and grabban missed an absolute sitter. defending on the goal absolutely terrible i was pretty baffled at putting all four strikers on as well though! Still confident we will go up. Bruce was a mess, but you're right in saying that players were too. They looked like they were expecting (hoping) for the game to be cancelled and were sulking because it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 I'm so angry at bruce this morning. How the hell has he managed to deliver zero points against QPR and Bolton. Absolutely pathetic. What clueless manager plays four strikers bit takes off his creative midfielders to create chances for them? He will no doubt take a dig at the fans with this "hysteria" but I think on this occasion we are entitled to be. We went frim being second to now potentially being 10 points behind today. Underachieving massively and yet again has gone on one of these shit runs that cost us. January 2017 we were on verge of play offs then he imploded. Then the start of the season he imploded. Then he someone couldnt beat ten man boro at home. Now this pathetic two game run. If we dont go via the play offs this year he has to go for me. Get a winner in like jonkavic if fulham dont go up. Even Warnock is a bigger winner than bruce is and spent significantly less. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 53 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I'm so angry at bruce this morning. How the hell has he managed to deliver zero points against QPR and Bolton. Absolutely pathetic. What clueless manager plays four strikers bit takes off his creative midfielders to create chances for them? He will no doubt take a dig at the fans with this "hysteria" but I think on this occasion we are entitled to be. We went frim being second to now potentially being 10 points behind today. Underachieving massively and yet again has gone on one of these shit runs that cost us. January 2017 we were on verge of play offs then he imploded. Then the start of the season he imploded. Then he someone couldnt beat ten man boro at home. Now this pathetic two game run. If we dont go via the play offs this year he has to go for me. Get a winner in like jonkavic if fulham dont go up. Even Warnock is a bigger winner than bruce is and spent significantly less. Have to agree totally with your last paragraph mate. If we fail to go up, then a change of manager is required. He will of failed. I hate the bloke, but I honestly think that Warnock would find a way of getting us up. Bruce had no excuse this season and may still achieve our goal (via the play offs), but he does anger the fans somewhat with some baffling decisions. Yesterday was play ground stuff, playing four strikers and no real supply, apart from hoof ball to them. Embarrassing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Fail to go up and Bruce will have failed. No doubt in my mind that he will be replaced at the end of the season unless he secures promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Yesterday and Tuesday showed how tactically inept Bruce is. He has no clue how to turn things around when things aren’t going well. We have seen it time and time again this season. I have no confidence that he can inspire the team now and get us up this season. He has to go as soon as the final ball is kicked at the end of the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Why would Warnock come here if he was in the Premier league with Cardiff ? Tbh, I wouldn't want him as Villa manager. I'd rather have Dean Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: Seems laughable now reading this day before QPR game https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/aston-villa/2018/03/12/robert-snodgrass-aston-villas-players-would-run-through-walls-for-boss-steve-bruce/ To be honest, I thought most of them 'tried', it wasn't a lack of effort, it was more of a lack of quality and a lack of tactics. Players like Snodgrass were running around like lunatics, wanting the ball and wanting to make things happen, the broader problem is Bruce's lack of plan. If as a matter of tactics the team presses high then we'd be a lot more aggressive and in the oppositions faces, this clearly wasn't a tactic deployed last night, instead we just looked disjointed and out of position most of the time. The fact is there's no style, no real quality as a team and no identity. We rely on quality from individuals, rather than quality as a team, so really we're just relying on our spending power, and if we don';t go up this season it will be significantly reduced and many of these players won't be here because we will not be able to afford their wages. I think automatic promotion is totally off the table now and at this rate finishing in 6th place will be harder than it should be. The play offs are a massive risk and I really do not fancy this team to deliver in that situation, I dread the prospect of playing Fulham at any point. If we don't go up then that will be twice that Bruce has failed on his key objective, last season it was playoffs, this season it's promotion. There will be no argument for keeping him. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, jim said: Yesterday and Tuesday showed how tactically inept Bruce is. He has no clue how to turn things around when things aren’t going well. We have seen it time and time again this season. I have no confidence that he can inspire the team now and get us up this season. He has to go as soon as the final ball is kicked at the end of the season. I agree. When we fall behind he has absolutely no plan b to get us back into the game even with all the talent he has in sqaud. I've noticed bruce is good at seeing the game out once we take the lead, but if the opposition score first we either lose or implode like QPR. Very limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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