Steve Bruce

[markavfc40]

41 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree ....don't get me wrong, i appreciate all Dr Tone has done.....but its not a one man show.....it takes many people all doing a great job, all singing off the same hymn sheet.

its a big old job.....but we are getting there.

its not easy.

I think it is something that many of us failed to realise. New owner comes in talks big, spends big and everything will be fine. I certainly fell for it in the summer of 2016.

Six years of mismanagement left a shambolic mess that was never going to be cured in a few months and by spending a few quid. Even if that gross spend of 55 mill in summer 2016 had been spent well it would still have been tough but as it was much of it wasn't spent well as shown by the knocking on 30 mill being spent on McCormack, Tshibola, Gollini and Elphick. 

I think this season has shown how tough it is to bounce straight back up. Sunderland who much like us stunk the Prem out for years have really struggled, Hull are only just outside the relegation zone and Boro who had a decent side when they got relegated and spent big over the summer still find themselves outside the play offs. Last season Newcastle were the only one of three that had dropped to come back up with us and Norwich nowhere near. Unlike Newcastle we hadn't dropped out the Prem by the skin of our teeth with a half decent squad that needed tweaking for a promotion push we had dropped out with 17 points, a club with no fight in it that needed rebuilding from top to bottom after years of struggle. 

It has understandably taken time but like you say thankfully we are most certainly getting there now though.

[Genie]

13 minutes ago, Dave J said:

So you don't think his remit last year was promotion?

Absolutely not, it was a long shot but certainly not essential given the turmoil and the league position. Saying that, I expect it’s playoffs minimum in this second season.

[Xela]

21 minutes ago, Dave J said:

So you don't think his remit last year was promotion?

It would have been a goal but not a 'must happen' if that makes sense. When a new manager comes in to a rotting mess like Villa it's not a given to expect to turn it around instantly. He's had to come in, clear out some of Di Matteo's poor signings and bring his own people in. You should least give a new manager a couple of transfer windows. 

This season though, it is absolutely his remit and if he doesn't deliver he will be gone IMO

[Dave J]

7 minutes ago, Genie said:

Absolutely not, it was a long shot but certainly not essential given the turmoil and the league position. Saying that, I expect it’s playoffs minimum in this second season.

So why sack RDM - if promotion was not the goal for last season - which I fundamentally believe it was - surely RDM could have been given more time.

i will stand corrected here - but did he not say himself that this was the aim?

[Dave J]

2 minutes ago, Xela said:

It would have been a goal but not a 'must happen' if that makes sense. When a new manager comes in to a rotting mess like Villa it's not a given to expect to turn it around instantly. He's had to come in, clear out some of Di Matteo's poor signings and bring his own people in. You should least give a new manager a couple of transfer windows. 

This season though, it is absolutely his remit and if he doesn't deliver he will be gone IMO

RDM got one and 11 games ? 

[Rob182]

6 minutes ago, Dave J said:

So why sack RDM - if promotion was not the goal for last season - which I fundamentally believe it was - surely RDM could have been given more time.

i will stand corrected here - but did he not say himself that this was the aim?

I think Genie is saying that Bruce’s goal wasn’t promotion last season. He took over following a terrible run under RDM, so I’d say ‘safety’ was the first aim, and then ‘as high up the table as possible’ was the second. RDM’s goal would have been promotion.

[Xela]

6 minutes ago, Dave J said:

RDM got one and 11 games ? 

Maybe he should have done. The board thought otherwise and whether that was down to the fact that Bruce was available we might never know. 

I wonder if we have ever been close to sacking Bruce at any point

Edited January 14, 2018 by Xela

[Dave J]

Just now, Xela said:

Maybe he should have done. The board thought otherwise and whether that was down to the fact that Bruce was available we might never know. 

I wonder if we have ever ben close to sacking Bruce at any point

I would think yes - in fact if the club had not already sacked a manager after 11 games then I think Bruce would have gone himself - but it's not great PR to do this is it?

[Dave J]

3 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

I think Genie is saying that Bruce’s goal wasn’t promotion last season. He took over following a terrible run under RDM, so I’d say ‘safety’ was the first aim, and then ‘as high up the table as possible’ was the second. RDM’s goal would have been promotion.

With due respect I totally do not think this to be the case - if the club were not targeting an immediate return to the prem - why on earth would they not have allowed their first choice pick more time to turn the club around?

[Genie]

7 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

I think Genie is saying that Bruce’s goal wasn’t promotion last season. He took over following a terrible run under RDM, so I’d say ‘safety’ was the first aim, and then ‘as high up the table as possible’ was the second. RDM’s goal would have been promotion.

Yes, xela put it better than me, promotion would have been an “aim” of course but not a must. The must was to stop the rot, turn the ship around and point it at the other end of the table (which he did).

We don’t know of course but I would suspect given he has had some money and some time promotion or at least getting into the playoffs is now the must.

 

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, Dave J said:

With due respect I totally do not think this to be the case - if the club were not targeting an immediate return to the prem - why on earth would they not have allowed their first choice pick more time to turn the club around?

At the start of the season that would have been true, but by the time Bruce came in (this is the Bruce thread after all) I suspect the owners objectives would have changed given we’d bought badly and the team were continuing the slide of the previous years. 

[Rob182]

8 minutes ago, Dave J said:

With due respect I totally do not think this to be the case - if the club were not targeting an immediate return to the prem - why on earth would they not have allowed their first choice pick more time to turn the club around?

Because he looked useless of course. As I’ve said in my post, RDM’s goal was promotion, and of course the club want an immediate return, but when your new manager has us dangerously close to the drop and conceding goals left, right & centre, a new manager will surely be told ‘get us safe - and then try to get promotion’.

 

I take it you think that Chris Coleman has been tasked with promotion for Sunderland this season too?

[srsmithusa]

This topic is SO circular.   Every few months we circle back to is Bruce doing well considering his goal when he arrived and then people spend a week debating what it was, then somebody digs up the quotes from the time... Wyness and Bruce both stated that the goal was promotion last season.  If you can’t find the quotes from that time look back here 4-6 weeks ago and you’ll find them cited.  

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, Dave J said:

With due respect I totally do not think this to be the case - if the club were not targeting an immediate return to the prem - why on earth would they not have allowed their first choice pick more time to turn the club around?

Maybe they seen what they did at first hand and was not convinced they made the right decision.....The results supported that second opinion and allowed the decision to sack him reasonable......had he got good results, they may have had to stick with him.

events are sometimes strange things.

[Rob182]

Of course quotes will say that we want promotion, that’s what all teams in the top ten want, and to not say that would show a lack of ambition and faith in your team.

 

But it was blatant when Bruce took over of a complete shambles that his ‘primary’ objective was to stop the rot, avoid relegation and stop the downward trajectory.

 

There were genuine concerns last season that we could have fallen into League One.

 

If his sole aim last season was promotion, then there is an argument to say that he should have been sacked then too. I just don’t buy it. He was allowed time and a lower expectation because of the team he inherited and how shockingly we were playing.

[HanoiVillan]

6 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

This topic is SO circular.   Every few months we circle back to is Bruce doing well considering his goal when he arrived and then people spend a week debating what it was, then somebody digs up the quotes from the time... Wyness and Bruce both stated that the goal was promotion last season.  If you can’t find the quotes from that time look back here 4-6 weeks ago and you’ll find them cited.  

Maybe so, but presumably they came to the realisation that it hadn't been a realistic target. 

[sidcow]

I am steering clear of Bruce in or out as I was a firm Bruce inner who became a firm Bruce outer. Now I am probably on the fence. 

HOWEVER, if his remit was purely to achieve promotion I would say he is currently on track to achieve that. But he needs to keep up the current form and not have yet another relapse as if he does I can't see anyway he will get promotion. 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

Even though Villa we’re 19th in the table when he took over  

After 11 games. The reason he was brought in so early was to still give us the chance of promotion and that was the talk when he arrived. Not sure why that is so funny.

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

Of course quotes will say that we want promotion, that’s what all teams in the top ten want, and to not say that would show a lack of ambition and faith in your team.

 

But it was blatant when Bruce took over of a complete shambles that his ‘primary’ objective was to stop the rot, avoid relegation and stop the downward trajectory.

 

There were genuine concerns last season that we could have fallen into League One.

 

If his sole aim last season was promotion, then there is an argument to say that he should have been sacked then too. I just don’t buy it. He was allowed time and a lower expectation because of the team he inherited and how shockingly we were playing.

Was it? I don't remember many fans, pundits or messages from the club saying anything like that. 

 

 

[Jareth]

24 minutes ago, Rob182 said:

There were genuine concerns last season that we could have fallen into League One.

And to prove this - Sunderland. We may not have fully appreciated just how bad it could have been.