Steve Bruce

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, vreitti said:

All this talk of a sacking being mental given whatever outcome at the end of the season is frankly ridiculous. S'ton fired Puel after he had them finishing 8th last season. Probably their best finish in decades. Our dear neighbors fired Rowett when they were seriously challenging for top6 last season. Sometimes tough decisions are needed. That's just nature of the beast. The world of football is brutal. What we need is a long term plan, and we need ppl in charge that are willing to make tough decisions when things aren't working out according to the plan. At the moment we have neither of these things. We are merely left hoping things work out for the best. I don't think they will with Bruce in charge.

Great example man.

Worked out super well for them that one

[Vive_La_Villa]

55 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Great example man.

Worked out super well for them that one

Going off topic but if Steve Bruce was talking to other clubs while employed by he Villa I'd like to think the board would sack him too.

[vreitti]

55 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Great example man.

Worked out super well for them that one

Was I trying to make a point as to how good or bad it had worked out for them?

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, vreitti said:

Was I trying to make a point as to how good or bad it had worked out for them?

Your point was clearly about clubs making tough decision. Some Bruce supporters will look for any chance to defend him I'm afraid. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Vive_La_Villa

[Grasshopper]

3 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

True, I am not qualified to identify a new manager - It's not my job to do so - for example, I knew nothing about Martin O'Neil before he joined the club (!!)- I would hope that there are people at the club who are qualified and have a list of potential managerial targets as you suggest.

However, as a fan - someone who has watched Villa all my life, and also watched other teams for comparison I am qualified to say that what we are seeing on the pitch is just not good enough. Some people blame the players, I don't buy that - some of these players were the best performers at the their championship clubs, others are tried and tested premier league players. Most managers and fans in this league would love to have our players. All are more capable than the dross we are seeing served up on the pitch and that is down to the manager. 

Unfortunately it appears on here that it is not permitted to want Bruce gone unless you have a full list of replacement managers who are better and are guaranteed to get us automatic promotion.

Newsflash - it is perfectly acceptable to ask the question without knowing the answer. Sometimes you have to roll the dice and take a chance, unfortunately the opportunity to do that has gone, and now were are really in trouble.   

We have had a run of decent results - but these results are not reflective of the (majority of) poor performances, and this is not sustainable. We STILL cannot hold onto the ball, we cannot retain possession and take pressure off ourselves, which always results in backs to the wall defending. This will bite us and I do fear a massive kicking coming up over the next couple of months. 

We keep saying "the next x games are massive", and we sort of scrape through them just doing enough for it to be "acceptable" but not great, we also seem to be lowering our expectations each time. At the start of the season we were aiming for promotion as champions, then automatic promotion - and given the resources and players available, the money spent and the supposed pedigree of our manager (four promotions, FOUR) automatic promotion should be the minimum target. 

Now we are accepting of a play off place. Anything down to 6th seems to be acceptable. And yet people seem to think that we will make it through the playoffs. I don't know what about our performances to sate, and especially against the teams we would be likely to meet in the playoffs makes people think that we would have any chance of going up via the playoffs. 

I worry that "gaining a play off place" but ultimately losing out on promotion will be seen as a result at the end of the season. Maybe it will be because I can guarantee one thing - if we continue the way we are, lady luck smiles on us and we continue to scrape results and do somehow get up via the playoffs, we will come straight back down, with possibly a more embarrassing set of results than last time. 

We should have been using our time down here to  develop a playing style, getting momentum behind us, confidence flowing and getting Villa park buzzing - not coming out with **** like "a point is a great result because we would have lost that game last season". Being better than the utter crap we have been is not good enough. Unfortunately we have wasted a season and a half - messing around with a manager who is not capable of getting us playing how we need to be.

Well at the risk of repeating the mantra: the next 6 really are massive as we now start to play the decent teams - teams whom we have not yet managed to get a result against. Will be interesting to see where we are by the end of the year - I honestly think we will be out of the top six.

 

Absolutely spot on.

[Grasshopper]

Not having a dig as I agree with almost everything

3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

And I don't disagree.  I do worry that we may not have enough nous to beat the higher placed/performing teams.  

correct

3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

That said, we're largely beating whatever is put in front of us at the moment.  And at the very least we're hardly ever losing. 

yes BUT! our problem is

We are playing catchup so „largely“ is not enough. We need to beat nearly everybody and not draw to teams below us i.e. Leeds and Millwall

2/6 pts means we have to up the ppg by 2 more pts over the rest of the season adding the 2pts to the already lost pts AND the lost pts we will have once we‘ve played the top 6/8 the second time around

3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

Playing stylish football is great, but it's also no guarantee of beating everyone.

Wolves have been playing the best football in the division, with the best players, and are rightfully top.  They scraped past 10-man Small Heath the other night, and then drew 0-0 at home to a Sunderland side who haven't won a match since 1912. 

^^^^^^^**This is the point of all points.

Beating the likes of AV 3-0 at home and most of the others - which rightly place them top - ALLOWS them a „bad day at the office“ now and again.

We have „40+ bad days at the office“ and that is supposed to be a concept to gain promotion?

 

[TheStagMan]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Great example man.

Worked out super well for them that one

Well, No, because it is a completely different set of circumstances. Rowett had taken them as far as they could go and was talking to other clubs about a move.

 

Bruce has underachieved and is not meeting his targets. 

 

Can you see the difference there?

 

Anyway, I don't really care what has / has not happened at other clubs, I care about the best thing for ASTON VILLA, at the moment I am not convinced that is Steve Bruce.

Edited December 11, 2017 by TheStagMan

[Grasshopper]

18 hours ago, tomav84 said:

my issue is that bruce's decisions are dissected in the finest of detail when points are dropped but games like qpr away he doesnt get the credit he deserves and the more vocal bruce out folks were relatively quiet after games such as that

DrT gave a motivational speech before that game

Result = 3pts (and a good performance)

Bruce-asaurous gave motivation speeches, training, coaching, tactics for a whole week before v Leeds & v Millwall

Result = 1pt (each game) (usual shyte performances

NO credit for Bruce, thank you

[DaveAV1]

13 hours ago, TRO said:

Dave i think its the blame game that is more of what we are arguing about as opposed to what we are watching.

I was one of the frustated c27,000 villa fans that witnessed that poor offering albeit welcome point i was in doubt we desreved.

but do you honestly think if we had say (realistically opinion) Charlie Austin and jermaine defoe on loan.....we would be playing like this.

We have no experienced forwards available......its resilience or bust.

you can blame who you like....i have no idea how many are responsible for that, but that is the state of play.

There are many factors to our problems, throwing the manager under the bus is fine, but it may not fix what we want fixing......They thought at Blues that Gary Rowett was not good enough.......look at the outcome.

TRO I wasn’t talking about the current situation, but the situation if, a big if, we were promoted. 

[DaveAV1]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Because clubs don't sack managers who have just got them promoted. And if they do it's mental.

 

I've literally just said I wouldn't mind if he was sacked. I can completely see the logic if it were to happen, depending on the replacement.

But don't pretend it's an every day occurrence. It would be crazy.

I agree it’s unusual and I thought it was crazy when Southampton sacked Adkins and appointed Pochettino, at a time when they’d fought their way out of the relegation zone. So what do I know!?

I’d like to think it would be a bold and progressive move, although the press would call it mental for sure! Purely hypothetical at the moment of course. I noted that you said you wouldn’t mind if it happened and my intention wasn’t to be critical of your post. 

[Dave J]

5 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

What, as many wanting him as didn't?

No **** way  

Quite frankly neither were wanted nor should they have been - both yesterday’s men - it’s just that Warnock is hanging there a little more than Bruce imo and if forced to lay money I would back Warnock over Bruce to keep a team in the Prem although it would not be pretty 

[Stevo985]

25 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Quite frankly neither were wanted nor should they have been - both yesterday’s men - it’s just that Warnock is hanging there a little more than Bruce imo and if forced to lay money I would back Warnock over Bruce to keep a team in the Prem although it would not be pretty 

Bruce was a lot more wanted than Warnock, which was my point.

[bobzy]

4 hours ago, villa89 said:

I don't find it strange at all. Good teams put poorer sides to the sword by passing the ball and creating chances that way. Bruce sets us up to play defensively and counter attack/hoof. It's a recipe for disaster if you are up against a semi organised team who's happy to settle for a draw.

r.e: Bruce, sure - but the rest just isn't true, is it?

Many teams have success with a counter attacking, defensive setup.  Mourinho pretty much lives off that approach.  Leicester won the league with that approach.

Wolves couldn't get past a 10 man Sunderland.  Sometimes you don't win all the games.

[bobzy]

2 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Going off topic but if Steve Bruce was talking to other clubs while employed by he Villa I'd like to think the board would sack him too.

Why?

Players do it all the time if they're good enough - would you just get rid of them all too?

[Grasshopper]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

r.e: Bruce, sure - but the rest just isn't true, is it?

Many teams have success with a counter attacking, defensive setup.  Mourinho pretty much lives off that approach.  Leicester won the league with that approach.

Wolves couldn't get past a 10 man Sunderland.  Sometimes you don't win all the games.

Your defence of Bruce fails subsequently by the simple fact that Wolves are top of the league and can allow themselves such results occasionally.

We were a slave to our every defeat

we are becoming slaves to our every draw

We will become slaves to winning EVERY game at a certain point

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Why?

Players do it all the time if they're good enough - would you just get rid of them all too?

True but one individual player is very different to the manager. If you have a star that wants out then you can either make him play or drop him. It can be managed in a way that doesn't affect the whole team. 

However if a manger is engineering a move away from the club. That could potentially affect the whole squad. What example does it set to the team if they guy managing them doesn't want to be there?

You see where I'm coming from?

[Vive_La_Villa]

11 minutes ago, bobzy said:

r.e: Bruce, sure - but the rest just isn't true, is it?

Many teams have success with a counter attacking, defensive setup.  Mourinho pretty much lives off that approach.  Leicester won the league with that approach.

Wolves couldn't get past a 10 man Sunderland.  Sometimes you don't win all the games.

As I mentioned in previous post there is nothing wrong with a counter attacking style if you execute it well and have pace in the team. We haven't been doing it well enough, consistently enough. That's the problem. 

[Michael118]

1 hour ago, Grasshopper said:

DrT gave a motivational speech before that game

Result = 3pts (and a good performance)

Bruce-asaurous gave motivation speeches, training, coaching, tactics for a whole week before v Leeds & v Millwall

Result = 1pt (each game) (usual shyte performances

NO credit for Bruce, thank you

He also said he was going to "stick around" for the next 2 home games against Sunderland and Ipswich. So it's 3 wins in a row since the motivational speech and while he was here and 2 draws against Leeds and Milwall at home since he left. Our record was 2 wins out of the last 5 leading up to the QPR game which includes the loss at home to Sheffield Wednesday which was the game before the motivational speech.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Michael118

[Grasshopper]

3 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

He also said he was going to "stick around" for the next 2 home games against Sunderland and Ipswich. So it's 3 wins in a row since the motivational speech and while he was here and 2 draws against Leeds and Milwall at home since he left. Our record was 2 wins out of the last 5 leading up to the QPR game including the loss at home to Sheffield Wednesday which was the game before the motivational speech.

that info only excentuates my point

[Michael118]

20 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

that info only excentuates my point

*accentuates