• limpid

      Just visiting?   27/12/16

      Please click "Sign Up" and login to use the full functionality of the site.
V01

Football Manager 2017

586 posts in this topic

Posted

they always sell it cheap through non league club shops too i saw it for 16 last year and itll be on the top banner on hot uk deals too soon enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I might get it eventually. The game is beyond stale for me though. Same inane conversations and interactions each year. Nothing really new.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

I might get it eventually. The game is beyond stale for me though. Same inane conversations and interactions each year. Nothing really new.

Agree with this completely. Press conferences and team talks are tedious. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

A couple of lads, in the FIFA thread, have posted some kinda sciencey explanation for how the game inner workings go, that it uses scripting etc to change the behaviour of the AI. Anyway, my point is, does anyone know the answer to my question (about the inner workings of FM)... Before I ask it, I have had nearly all FMs (and its predecessor CMs) I have always wondered something.

In watching the 3d highlights, is all the action that you see, completely and utterly original with each generated "clip?"

You know so, are they recycled highlights that you see every say thousand rotations, or is it literally the game engine creating motions of all the players from their stats and likelihood of what they would do, where they would stand, run, the pass they would make, the shot they would attempt etcetcetc? I have always wondered that. Does anyone know that sciencey answer? I hope that the highlights are all generated naturally and borderline unique every time, especially as when I play it I cannot go without watching the highlights on mode. I have it just one notch sped up, but always highlights on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

On 10/5/2016 at 20:50, Midfielder said:

A couple of lads, in the FIFA thread, have posted some kinda sciencey explanation for how the game inner workings go, that it uses scripting etc to change the behaviour of the AI. Anyway, my point is, does anyone know the answer to my question (about the inner workings of FM)... Before I ask it, I have had nearly all FMs (and its predecessor CMs) I have always wondered something.

In watching the 3d highlights, is all the action that you see, completely and utterly original with each generated "clip?"

You know so, are they recycled highlights that you see every say thousand rotations, or is it literally the game engine creating motions of all the players from their stats and likelihood of what they would do, where they would stand, run, the pass they would make, the shot they would attempt etcetcetc? I have always wondered that. Does anyone know that sciencey answer? I hope that the highlights are all generated naturally and borderline unique every time, especially as when I play it I cannot go without watching the highlights on mode. I have it just one notch sped up, but always highlights on.

I don't know the answer 100%, but my view is that there are a limited number of 'scripts' (as with watching the game in text mode- content gets repeated). The player attributes determine which script gets used at which time. If it was unscripted, then there would be an infinite number of possibilities that could be shown (positions a player stands in, direction of pass, height of pass, type of finish etc....) I don't think a standard laptop would be powerful enough to calculate all the different outcomes.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Here is how I think the engine works, for the past few years.

You get a tactic the games like and your strikers score their chances.
You get a tactic the game doesn't like your players miss every chance, the oppo score their one chance and you lose.

 

Repeat ad infinitum.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

My favourite management sim was Ultimate Soccer Manager 98 because you could upgrade your stadium and choose what stands to build and what advertisements to display.

I've always wondered why FM doesn't do this. Yeah you can upgrade/build new stadiums but I liked being able to actually see it.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Wasn't that the one where you could bribe the opposition too?

I remember the stadium building, right down to hot dog stands etc and merchandise stands. Amiga f t w

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

11 hours ago, Phumfeinz said:

I've always wondered why FM doesn't do this. Yeah you can upgrade/build new stadiums but I liked being able to actually see it.

The answer is very obvious isn't it? Because that decision is nothing to do with the role of being a football manager. Requesting the board makes the ground bigger is possible sure, cos a manager might do that I guess, but anything else they surely never would. 

I agree that being able to do cosmetic stuff with your ground would be great though. My own first management sim was LMA manager on PS1, and you could upgrade all sides and select the billboard sponsors (and shirt sponsors) in that, which you'd see in game. Better, there were proper cheats for it, so taking over a tiny club and giving them billions to build the largest stadium in the world was fun. 

The most in depth one I've seen was in the now defunct FIFA manager series - not only could you build up your stadium as you liked, but the area around it, including the training ground. So the obvious like a club shop, medical centre, practice pitches, etc. to the not so, like a mansion for the chairman, or a school for your foreign kids (as the game also let you set up training camps abroad, and if any good kids came through, you'd sign them on a scholarship, move them over here, and have to educate them. The joy of finding a 6 star player this way! They had youth teams down to about U13 too). This was pretty much the best part of the game, as well as spending your wages on houses, cars, etc. plus getting married and having kid/s who you could then sign on a scholarship, play through the youth set up and eventually senior squad even if they were shite :D

I'm going back to probably....the '08 version was the one I loved, I think. No idea what the more recent ones were like. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

On 08/10/2016 at 07:12, hogso said:

The answer is very obvious isn't it? Because that decision is nothing to do with the role of being a football manager. Requesting the board makes the ground bigger is possible sure, cos a manager might do that I guess, but anything else they surely never would. 

I agree that being able to do cosmetic stuff with your ground would be great though. My own first management sim was LMA manager on PS1, and you could upgrade all sides and select the billboard sponsors (and shirt sponsors) in that, which you'd see in game. Better, there were proper cheats for it, so taking over a tiny club and giving them billions to build the largest stadium in the world was fun. 

The most in depth one I've seen was in the now defunct FIFA manager series - not only could you build up your stadium as you liked, but the area around it, including the training ground. So the obvious like a club shop, medical centre, practice pitches, etc. to the not so, like a mansion for the chairman, or a school for your foreign kids (as the game also let you set up training camps abroad, and if any good kids came through, you'd sign them on a scholarship, move them over here, and have to educate them. The joy of finding a 6 star player this way! They had youth teams down to about U13 too). This was pretty much the best part of the game, as well as spending your wages on houses, cars, etc. plus getting married and having kid/s who you could then sign on a scholarship, play through the youth set up and eventually senior squad even if they were shite :D

I'm going back to probably....the '08 version was the one I loved, I think. No idea what the more recent ones were like. 

Which was the one with the Diablo tactic and Fredy William Thomson?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

On 5.10.2016 at 21:50, Midfielder said:

A couple of lads, in the FIFA thread, have posted some kinda sciencey explanation for how the game inner workings go, that it uses scripting etc to change the behaviour of the AI. Anyway, my point is, does anyone know the answer to my question (about the inner workings of FM)... Before I ask it, I have had nearly all FMs (and its predecessor CMs) I have always wondered something.

In watching the 3d highlights, is all the action that you see, completely and utterly original with each generated "clip?"

You know so, are they recycled highlights that you see every say thousand rotations, or is it literally the game engine creating motions of all the players from their stats and likelihood of what they would do, where they would stand, run, the pass they would make, the shot they would attempt etcetcetc? I have always wondered that. Does anyone know that sciencey answer? I hope that the highlights are all generated naturally and borderline unique every time, especially as when I play it I cannot go without watching the highlights on mode. I have it just one notch sped up, but always highlights on.

SI keeps a tight lid on things. So I don't think anyone would know for sure. If so they are violating a NDA. What I do know is that when you start a match everything is calculated from 0 to 90+ minutes with attributes, hidden attributes and other variables included in the equation. Team talk, last latch team talk, motivation, form and a random seed of some sort in the mix, etc. Every time you influence the match by making changes or do team- or individual talks - and press confirm - the entirety of the remaining time is re-calculated.

The reason you some time see similar chances, goals and style of play is the simple fact that there will always be weaknesses and balancing issues in the ME, making some plays stronger than others, or some plays happen a bit too often. The way the players use the space is also important to remember. It might be very difficult to mimic something as inventive and unique as a human or as dull and unimaginable as an Aston Villa player.  In addition there's the AI pre-set formation choices and instruction and the AI manager behaviors that put's a bit of routine into it. When you are a beta tester this becomes quite apparent, as the highlights are very different from one build to another, and sometimes all they did was minor balancing adjustments.

I read that there were (in a FM some years ago) about 1100 match actions or events in the match engine. Each action is linked to the text commentary and are along the lines of in example: "Player x passes the ball to Player Y" - that can be visually interpreted by the ME in many different way - position of players, animation selected,  pace of the ball, curl, etc. So although 1100 doesn't sound like that much, the ways in which they are displayed make varied. I have no idea if that number has increased over the years.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Careful how you say things on twitter etc too as Miles, who is quite happy to take the piss out of customers, always likes to threaten legal action.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

decided to bite the bullet and pre-ordered it. Hopefully will have some new touches that will make it less repetitive but probably not

Edited by Villaphan04

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

10 minutes ago, Villaphan04 said:

decided to bite the bullet and pre-ordered it. Hopefully will have some new touches that will make it less repetitive but probably not

No, they'll probably add extra fluff like the optastats from this year. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

1 hour ago, Villaphan04 said:

decided to bite the bullet and pre-ordered it. Hopefully will have some new touches that will make it less repetitive but probably not

Me too.

Be interesting starting with Villa in the Championship with a Sugar Daddy owner :D

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

i think im going with an inter milan sugar daddy start this year

will do my usual trick of using some decent teams to learn the ropes before starting a villa game around March

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Fair play to you lot who can play as Villa. I can't do it.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I do it all the time but i get too emotionally involved, those losses get taken really personally.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Feature video is up

 

64 bit finally

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

1 hour ago, sexbelowsound said:

Fair play to you lot who can play as Villa. I can't do it.

I try every year, get a good villa game about once every 4 years, some of them are just shit and I quit after a year or two, last year I had a great one after using the edit to put us in the championship, lasted about 15 years 

for many years I actually thought that villa were the challenge on FM, neoseeker forums backed that up, last couple of years we've been sold by Christmas and it's been quite easy, not sure who it is now, AC Milan, Valencia, I always like the idea of a Paris FC overthrowing psg one

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites