Second City

[Guest North_Stand_Warrior]

Birmingham or Manchester?

[edit] City boundaries

Based on population within official city boundaries the City of Birmingham, the most populous metropolitan local authority in the UK, is substantially larger than the City of Manchester, which is the ninth largest in the UK (see List of United Kingdom cities by population). However, most sources do not use formal city boundaries as the sole criterion for population comparison; for instance, the City of London, with a population of only 7,185 (2001 census), is very small, though London as a whole is the most populous city within city limits in the European Union[9] with an official population of 7.6 million (as of 2006)[10] and has a metropolitan area population of between 12 and 14 million people.[11][12]

The surrounding conurbations and the areas that can be considered informally part of each city are hard to define. However after the 1974 re-organisation of local government and the creation of the Metropolitan county, the City of Birmingham was included with the City of Coventry and five other "Metropolitan boroughs" (one, Wolverhampton gained city status in 2000) into a new administrative county called the West Midlands county. The City of Manchester joined with the neighbouring City of Salford and eight other "Metropolitan Boroughs" within the County of Greater Manchester.

The City of Birmingham has a population of 1,001,200 (2005 estimate). It forms part of the larger West Midlands conurbation, which has a population of 2,284,093 (2001 census) and also includes the city of Wolverhampton, the towns of the Black Country, and other towns such as Solihull. The City of Manchester has a population of 441,200 (2005 estimate), while the Greater Manchester Urban Area is home to 2,240,230 people (2001 census) and also includes the city of Salford, and towns like Bolton, Bury, Oldham, Rochdale, and Stockport. The population of Metropolitan counties such as the West Midlands and Greater Manchester also vary slightly from both the "urban areas" and other population statistics criteria like the "Travel to Work Area (TTWA)".

[edit] Local government

Birmingham City Council (BCC) is the largest local authority in Europe and is notable for having the largest wards by population in the whole of the UK (each ward has approximately 18,000 voters). BCC is also the UK's largest landlord, with the BCC Housing Department managing over 70,000 council homes.[13], though it often performs poorly and was only awarded a 2 star rating[14] in the Comprehensive Performance Assessment (CPA) of the Audit Commission, with housing repair rated poor[15], whereas Manchester City Council (MCC) received 3 stars in the same audit, with mostly good service[16].

[edit] Polls and media references

As mentioned above, Birmingham is historically the second city of the United Kingdom, but two recent polls have concluded with Manchester receiving the most votes.

In a recent survey commissioned by the BBC[17] investigating the subject of the "'Second city' of England", 48% of 1,000 people claimed that Manchester deserves the distinction with 40% choosing Birmingham. The BBC further report that Manchester is close to being the second city of the UK.[18]

In a similar survey conducted by Ipsos MORI North (based in Manchester), commissioned by "Destination Manchester" (Manchester City's PR and Tourism department,[19]) Manchester had the highest response for the third city as well as the second city. Interestingly only 85% of respondents put London as first City.[20]

Manchester, however, is both reported by international news media as the UK's second city,[21][22][23] and alternatively as the UK's third city.[24] Whereas Birmingham is almost always reported as the UK's second city in similar international news media.[25][26][27][28]

[edit] Ministerial opinion

There has been a variety of Ministerial opinion on the subject for some time, opinions include:

* David Miliband the current Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs and Member of Parliament for the constituency of South Shields, Tyne and Wear "However, if you look at Birmingham, I think a lot of people would say that it's a city, Britain's second city..." [29]

* Sir Digby Jones (born and raised in Birmingham), Minister of State at the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform and the Foreign Office (former Director-General of the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) said "Birmingham is naturally the second most important city in Britain after London because of where she is and how important she is as part of that crossroads,".[30]

* John Prescott (born in Wales and raised in Merseyside), former Deputy Prime Minister and current Member of Parliament for the constituency of Hull East was also quoted as saying "Manchester - our second city", but this was later played down by his department, claiming they were made in a "light-hearted context".[31]

* Graham Stringer (born, raised and currently representing Manchester), MP for Manchester Blackley responded with "Manchester has always been the second city after the capital, in many ways it is the first. Birmingham has never really been in the competition."[31]

* Sandra White (born, raised and representing Glasgow) a Scottish National Party MSP for Glasgow, claimed "Glasgow was always seen as the second city in the Empire, and Glasgow is still the second British city. Manchester is probably the second city in England after London."[31]

* Phil Woolas (born in Burnley, living in Lees and representing the constituency of Oldham East and Saddleworth), Minister of State for the Environment - "And, of course, I, and colleagues in Manchester, am pleased to see its very sensible plans to relocate to Manchester - Britain's third city."[32]

[edit] Cultural factors

It is perhaps even more difficult to make a distinction based on cultural factors, as all major UK cities play an important role in the cultural make-up of the country: in addition to Birmingham and Manchester, Liverpool (European Capital of Culture for 2008), Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle and others all boast internationally recognised sporting, music and performing arts scenes. In Scotland, meanwhile, Edinburgh has played host to the world's largest arts festival for 60 consecutive years, and Glasgow, 1990's European Capital of Culture, and numerous other festivals including Celtic Connections music festival makes it an important centre for culture also.

Details

[jasthevillan]

I am still flabbergasted that Liverpool won city of culture. Culture? It is probably the most intolerant city in this country of other cultures. Other cultures that have formed such an important part of post war Birmingham.

[The_Rev]

City of Culture was a political decision to attract private investment and tourist money to a city in need of a boost. Its been like that since it was introduced.

[bickster]

I am still flabbergasted that Liverpool won city of culture. Culture? It is probably the most intolerant city in this country of other cultures. Other cultures that have formed such an important part of post war Birmingham.

not as flabbergasted as people will be whenit all goes completely tits up

Wasn't a political decision Nays, if it was a political decision Newcastle would have won, thats why the BBC had the much larger camera crew on the Tyne not the Mersey, thats why liverpools fireworks were a tad delayed, because my mate Eddy who is in charge of such things was told Liverpool wouldnt win. Everyone involved on the ground for the Liverpool bid couldnt have had their flabber more ghasted than it was that night

[The_Rev]

I think you are misreading me Bicks.

Capital of Culture has always been a tool for governments to use to attract business and tourism to a city of their choice. If it were a straightforward award for the most culturally blessed city in Europe then the award would have been dominated by London and Paris wins for the last twenty odd years.

Sure, Newcastle/Gateshead was the bookies favourite when it was Englands turn to have a city in 2008, but the point still stands.