bully Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 It doesn't require much thought, its a fact - Birmingham The reason being, the city of Manchester ISN'T that big, Manchester appear to want to add, Salford and all the other council areas to get their population figures - real population of Manchester is under half a million. These other areas include Bolton, Rochdale, Oldham etc etc and these are all towns in their own right, Salford is in fact another city. If Manchester can add up all those areas population then Birmingham can add the whole of the West Midlands conurbation, Its a close run thing but the population of the West Mids is still Greater than Greater Manchester If second city status refers specifically to size and size alone then you are bang on. The 2001 census shows that Manchester is actually about the 6th biggest city, some 600k people behind Birmingham. And as you say, even when refering to the the metropolitan areas/conurbations, "Greater" Birmingham (i.e. West Midlands) is still larger than Greater Manchester ( but only by approx 200k). I cant see that much has changed since the 2001 Census to change this all that much. However, there is an argument that suggests second city should take into account more than just population size, so it depends on criteria. Based on population, Birmingham definately is the second city, although other criteria may suggest differently What other criteria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowandlow Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 It doesn't require much thought, its a fact - Birmingham The reason being, the city of Manchester ISN'T that big, Manchester appear to want to add, Salford and all the other council areas to get their population figures - real population of Manchester is under half a million. These other areas include Bolton, Rochdale, Oldham etc etc and these are all towns in their own right, Salford is in fact another city. If Manchester can add up all those areas population then Birmingham can add the whole of the West Midlands conurbation, Its a close run thing but the population of the West Mids is still Greater than Greater Manchester If second city status refers specifically to size and size alone then you are bang on. The 2001 census shows that Manchester is actually about the 6th biggest city, some 600k people behind Birmingham. And as you say, even when refering to the the metropolitan areas/conurbations, "Greater" Birmingham (i.e. West Midlands) is still larger than Greater Manchester ( but only by approx 200k). I cant see that much has changed since the 2001 Census to change this all that much. However, there is an argument that suggests second city should take into account more than just population size, so it depends on criteria. Based on population, Birmingham definately is the second city, although other criteria may suggest differently What other criteria? People have suggested that economic productivity, peoples awareness of the city from other countries , the influence of the city on the political structure of the country, the historical importance of the city and the impact the city (and its inhabitants) have had on popular culture should all be considered, as well as a host of other criteria, rather than just the size of the place. God knows what the second city is if all this is taken into account. Im from Brum tho, so for me that will always be the second city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissmith921 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Unfortunately, Birmingham City FC are still based in Birmingham. When they become Oswestry Town Ladies FC, Birmingham will be so much better off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowandlow Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Unfortunately, Birmingham City FC are still based in Birmingham. When they become Oswestry Town Ladies FC, Birmingham will be so much better off I think the fact manchester has one of the biggest football clubs in the world makes more people aware of it across the globe, whereas we have a bunch of clowns representing our city Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowandlow Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 As a foreigner who've been to both cities, I have no doubt Birmingham is the bigger city in every meaning of the word. However, being a Villa fan does make me biased so it would certainly be interesting to hear from someone who disagrees and thinks Manchester is bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia_Villain Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Once you're tagged 'The Second City' I don't think you can go back. Chicago is still called the Second City even though Los Angeles has passed it in terms of population. So, even if Manchester was to annex enought towns to pass in population there's precedent for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoyman Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Excessive Mancunian civic pride is actually one of the least interesting things imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largelugs Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 The only reason Manchester is even considered for the second city is because it spends so much money on claiming to be. Its council seems to be obsessed with self promotion. Birmingham is bigger, more important politically (the largest council in europe), financially, geographically (the centre of England, providing links to the whole country used so much by industry) and educationally (universities). Manchester go on about their cultural importance by quoting a few bands from a 10 year range, so what? If that was an important factor the scousers would be higher up the ranking. They go on about their sporting facilities but apart from the football stadiums they only have a few things built for the commonwealth games, does the cycling track stand up to the NIA in terms of international competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Manchester is the second city. Behind Birmingham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenjos Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Manchester is the second city. Behind Birmingham. You nearly made me bite!! lol . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Just a quick thought. Given his high profile and his influence within the local media, how much difference will the death of professional Manc, Anthony H Wilson (god rest his soul) make in the number of claims Manchester makes of its own importance? Im sure he was a driving figure behind a lot of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulanddonya Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 No contest. Bleeding manc is a dog hole , always was, always will be, made me laugh going back to the supposed "hey day" of Madchester - had you ever been to Manchester - it was awful - much better nights out in towns like Sheffield, Newcastle. Just this media invention on the back of oasis and The happy Mondays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted September 21, 2007 VT Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2007 As somebody has pointed out, if you go to Manchester you'll see loads of small companies calling themselves "Second City...(this, that or the other)". I'm sure loads of Mancs actually think that they are officially second. But they're wrong. It's always been Brum, it always will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2007 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2007 Unfortunately, Birmingham City FC are still based in Birmingham. When they become Oswestry Town Ladies FC, Birmingham will be so much better off I think the fact manchester has one of the biggest football clubs in the world makes more people aware of it across the globe, whereas we have a bunch of clowns representing our city This is Man Citeh we're talking about? Man Utd being part of Trafford! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Can the vote be changed to include London please? I have always thought London a more likely second city than Manchester :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Have lived in both cities, the only thing Brum does better is curries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrobo1 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 look at some factors football - We invented the Football league, thay have Man Ure - draw Cricket - the Bears won the league 5 years ago, the manc neary 70 - win music - We have Black Sabbath, they have the Wilson lot and more - narrow loss Industy - city of a thousand trades, the spitfire, Austin 7, Jag, they have the Cotton inductry and IT - Convincing win Politics - more cabinet level minister than any other city than London, Joe chamberlin, founder of the modern city - easy win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC1874 Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Have lived in both cities, the only thing Brum does better is curries. What do you prefer in Manc? Not having a go, just interested. Personally i prefer Liverpool to Manchester as a city and have never liked Manc at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowandlow Posted September 21, 2007 Share Posted September 21, 2007 Unfortunately, Birmingham City FC are still based in Birmingham. When they become Oswestry Town Ladies FC, Birmingham will be so much better off I think the fact manchester has one of the biggest football clubs in the world makes more people aware of it across the globe, whereas we have a bunch of clowns representing our city This is Man Citeh we're talking about? Man Utd being part of Trafford! yeh but its not called trafford united is it? Manchester United raises global awareness of Manchester, whether it is located there or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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