Zatman Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Same EFL that let Xia take us over 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 1, 2020 Moderator Share Posted July 1, 2020 The EFL are looking to introduce an £18m wage cap on clubs going forwards in order to reduce wage bills to a sustainable level. Relegated clubs would be able to declare contracts that were signed in the Premier League at a nominative value of £720,000 per season toward that total rather than at their actual rate (so that if West Ham were relegated, Jack Wilshere would count as £720k against their total, not as £5.2m) - however, once those deals end, any deal signed in the Championship would count at it's full value. What for me is massively clear in that is that the EFL intends to save itself through a process of separation. It wouldn't be division two in any respect, it'd be a mile from the Premier league with the gap becoming an enormous gulf. £18m a year is less than Manchester City pay Kevin De Bruyne - West Ham's current wage bill is over £130m per year - Liverpool's is more than double that - it's a different world to the Premier League. Our wage bill last season was over £60m, Wolves were promoted with a similar wage bill and Leeds are currently top of the championship with a wage bill of around £46m - that level wouldn't have been possible for any of those clubs going forward. A well run Championship team that was promoted to the Premier league would have a couple of stark choices - come back down with a dozen points or spend half a billion pounds. The Premier League would be a more fixed group with a couple of yo-yo clubs and the idea of promotion as a means of growing a club would be gone, possibly forever. The gap would simply be too big - it's the equivalent of a Professional league and an amateur league. Premier league games against promoted teams would become enjoyed for their novelty value; "City got ten, can Liverpool put more past them than that? It's live!" If they're successful in the £18m cap, a lot of English teams will survive that might otherwise not, and a lot of fans across the country will be able to continue to support their teams and the teams their fathers supported - but it's at a hell of a cost - being in the Championship would be a ceiling, not a launchpad. If it happens, I think it possibly moves us nearer to a PL2 as teams at the top of the Championship and bottom of the Premier League panic - and given that there are only around ten competitive teams in the Premier League and that EUFA are inviting more and more of those into European competition - I wouldn't be too surprised to see us moving to two divisions of 14-16 teams. For someone like Nottingham Forest it would mean the idea of ever being in the Premier League for more than a single season would be a dream on a par with winning the European Cup again - for someone like West Ham it would mean that not getting back up quickly could be a life sentence of mediocrity. It's a great idea in a lot of ways, it protects clubs that are and have been the lifeblood of the game in this country - but it would be an ending I think - the start of something different for Wigan or for QPR or for Reading - a good solid foundation for competing in a league that is the only one that they can ever compete in. There isn't a good solution from the EFL point of view - you can't let teams disappear - the problem isn't theirs - the problem is that increasingly more and more of the money in our game is going to fewer and fewer clubs - the problem is that there aren't any limits at the top and that the top is greedier for an even bigger share. I think off the back of this enforced break, we're going to see some changes that will stay with us for good. I wish there was a better solution than this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Wigan is a shitshow. For the "Fit & Proper" test, prospective owners supposedly have to show they have the finances to run the club at least 2 years. Wasn't this deal ratified well into the pandemic, suggesting these guys must have been planning to asset strip all along? Is there anyway at all for there to be restrictions on what a new owner can do? Quite embarrassing for the EFL. You've do feel for the fans...apart from Dave Whelan. I've always felt a wage cap is a better way to deal with FFP, although in that form I'm not sure it would answer much. Assuming it's paired with current FFP rules it largely favours relegated teams. It also means promoted teams have 2 guaranteed windows to sign all those players on their wishlist that they haven't been able to pay the going salary for. Teams that gamble could come down with very big wage budgets knowing it wont effect FFP for a few years, but still risk the overall financial health of the club. You could have 10 failed gambles on ridiculous 5 year contracts only taking up 50% of a teams wage budget. If the point is to protect clubs financially I'm not sold. I guess it would have stopped Mr Xia, and others buying relegated teams, spending big. It could give clubs a little more power to keep key players on big wages if they have a few years on their contracts and the money to pay them is there. It restricts teams chasing promotion for years as not many have a wage bill below this. I'm not sure it makes the league more competitive short term. Maybe long term it would bring wages down in the league without effecting quality as players still want the shot at getting to the PL and will be aware of the wage restrictions. Based on the 2019/20 wage bills I've seen, Brentford would be laughing. Quote 1: Stoke City £94.2m 2: West Brom £92.2m 3: Swansea City £90.7m 4: Huddersfield £62.6m 5: Fulham £54.3m 6: Middlesbrough £48.7m 7: Cardiff City £48.4m 8: Derby £40.4m 9: Birmingham £38.5m 10: Reading £35.3m 11: Leeds £31.3m 12: Hull £31.1m 13: QPR £30.6m 14: Sheff Wed £29.3m 15: Nottm Forest £27.7m 16: Bristol City £27.2m 17: Brentford £17.1m 18: Blackburn £16.7m 19: Preston £15m 20: Millwall £13.3m 21: Wigan £11.7m 22: Barnsley £10.6m 23: Charlton £10.2m 24: Luton £6.2m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 (edited) Just saw their new owners are from Hong Kong, maybe I've been a bit harsh assuming asset strippers. With the security laws going through I wonder if other recent legislative change might have caused this. Edit - previous owner was a listed HK company. Some suggestions the new guy is linked with them and they moved it on to protect their share price. Edited July 1, 2020 by Sam-AVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 I don’t see how they can introduce a salary cap and not face legal challenges from the bigger clubs and those relegated. The EFL is a bubble and unsustainable given how they sold tv rights for very little, shafted the likes of Bury and Tranmere Rovers. It needs better management across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Apparently Wigan's Administrators have said that there's another championship club on the verge of going into Admin as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 apparently there's a video going around, rumored to be Rick Parry talking about the current wigan situation (not sure why he'd go out and talk to fans about it, but definitely seems like his voice in the video) and boy, if it is true this situation could get very messy very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Thanks to him mugging us off when we were after martinez and our defeaning silence before appointing ginger bollocks I have a near irrational hatred of dave whelan and Wigan The business side of it and job losses etc it's of course shit for everyone but from a pure cold football perspective... Horrible nothing club that I wouldn't mind them sliding down further and further until they reach kiddy harriers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 On 01/07/2020 at 16:43, OutByEaster? said: The EFL are looking to introduce an £18m wage cap on clubs going forwards in order to reduce wage bills to a sustainable level. Relegated clubs would be able to declare contracts that were signed in the Premier League at a nominative value of £720,000 per season toward that total rather than at their actual rate (so that if West Ham were relegated, Jack Wilshere would count as £720k against their total, not as £5.2m) - however, once those deals end, any deal signed in the Championship would count at it's full value. What for me is massively clear in that is that the EFL intends to save itself through a process of separation. It wouldn't be division two in any respect, it'd be a mile from the Premier league with the gap becoming an enormous gulf. £18m a year is less than Manchester City pay Kevin De Bruyne - West Ham's current wage bill is over £130m per year - Liverpool's is more than double that - it's a different world to the Premier League. Our wage bill last season was over £60m, Wolves were promoted with a similar wage bill and Leeds are currently top of the championship with a wage bill of around £46m - that level wouldn't have been possible for any of those clubs going forward. A well run Championship team that was promoted to the Premier league would have a couple of stark choices - come back down with a dozen points or spend half a billion pounds. The Premier League would be a more fixed group with a couple of yo-yo clubs and the idea of promotion as a means of growing a club would be gone, possibly forever. The gap would simply be too big - it's the equivalent of a Professional league and an amateur league. Premier league games against promoted teams would become enjoyed for their novelty value; "City got ten, can Liverpool put more past them than that? It's live!" If they're successful in the £18m cap, a lot of English teams will survive that might otherwise not, and a lot of fans across the country will be able to continue to support their teams and the teams their fathers supported - but it's at a hell of a cost - being in the Championship would be a ceiling, not a launchpad. If it happens, I think it possibly moves us nearer to a PL2 as teams at the top of the Championship and bottom of the Premier League panic - and given that there are only around ten competitive teams in the Premier League and that EUFA are inviting more and more of those into European competition - I wouldn't be too surprised to see us moving to two divisions of 14-16 teams. For someone like Nottingham Forest it would mean the idea of ever being in the Premier League for more than a single season would be a dream on a par with winning the European Cup again - for someone like West Ham it would mean that not getting back up quickly could be a life sentence of mediocrity. It's a great idea in a lot of ways, it protects clubs that are and have been the lifeblood of the game in this country - but it would be an ending I think - the start of something different for Wigan or for QPR or for Reading - a good solid foundation for competing in a league that is the only one that they can ever compete in. There isn't a good solution from the EFL point of view - you can't let teams disappear - the problem isn't theirs - the problem is that increasingly more and more of the money in our game is going to fewer and fewer clubs - the problem is that there aren't any limits at the top and that the top is greedier for an even bigger share. I think off the back of this enforced break, we're going to see some changes that will stay with us for good. I wish there was a better solution than this. Same as we held on just long enough last time to miss out on the PL money going up to £120m a season, we could have timed it quite beautifully to be totally shut out. You've nailed it with the bold bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Apparently there are rumours that Wigan were put into administration because of a big bet placed on them in the Philippines, in other words the suggestion is that the owners were trying to purposely get them relegated to win a bet. All sounds very far fetched, but the rumour has come from a video of Rick Parry talking with a Wigan fan and EFL have confirmed that it's him in the video and said that they're looking into it as part of a wider investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 15 hours ago, useless said: Apparently Wigan's Administrators have said that there's another championship club on the verge of going into Admin as well. Got to be Sheff Wed. They are in all sorts of trouble. Threw the kitchen sink at it to get promoted a few years back. Lost in the play offs and have been limping on ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 Looking at those wage bills (if correct), Stoke, middlesboro and Huddersfield must be some of the worst run clubs in recent years. Those wage bills against league positions. In particular Stoke. When you look a this, it makes you realise how bad it could've been for us. We actually did pretty well to stabilise (well done Steve) and have oppurtunities to go up. And then eventually go up fairly quickly (well done Dean). But it also shows that we shouldn't be expectant of guaranteed survival and how much things had to change (and have changed) to get us into this position where we are in the premier league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 3 hours ago, useless said: Apparently there are rumours that Wigan were put into administration because of a big bet placed on them in the Philippines, in other words the suggestion is that the owners were trying to purposely get them relegated to win a bet. All sounds very far fetched, but the rumour has come from a video of Rick Parry talking with a Wigan fan and EFL have confirmed that it's him in the video and said that they're looking into it as part of a wider investigation. Rick Parry should resign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 36 minutes ago, The_Steve said: Rick Parry should resign Wigan will be the 1st of about 15 clubs to fall because he wanted the Championship to continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Mjvilla said: Looking at those wage bills (if correct), Stoke, middlesboro and Huddersfield must be some of the worst run clubs in recent years. Those wage bills against league positions. In particular Stoke. When you look a this, it makes you realise how bad it could've been for us. We actually did pretty well to stabilise (well done Steve) and have oppurtunities to go up. And then eventually go up fairly quickly (well done Dean). But it also shows that we shouldn't be expectant of guaranteed survival and how much things had to change (and have changed) to get us into this position where we are in the premier league. We didnt exactly stabilise. We had a wage bill that was higher than most PL teams and sort of stumbled our way up. It was an absolute shit show for 3 years. Well done Steve stabilising us by bringing in Bolasie and his merry band of old suffers for stupid wages. We shouldn't have went up. We deserved to implode if we are being honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: We didnt exactly stabilise. We had a wage bill that was higher than most PL teams and sort of stumbled our way up. It was an absolute shit show for 3 years. Well done Steve stabilising us by bringing in Bolasie and his merry band of old suffers for stupid wages. We shouldn't have went up. We deserved to implode if we are being honest. We did and we didn't. Which kind of backs up my point. We can't thank the chairman. We can't thank any of the board for not imploding. Who an we thank? It has to be on Bruce. I agree, the short term nature wouldn't have worked long run and I believe has cost us this season. But, its with thanks to Bruce we didnt find ourselves in the position Stoke do now. But, let's not cover old ground before TRO sees!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, Mjvilla said: We did and we didn't. Which kind of backs up my point. We can't thank the chairman. We can't thank any of the board for not imploding. Who an we thank? It has to be on Bruce. I agree, the short term nature wouldn't have worked long run and I believe has cost us this season. But, its with thanks to Bruce we didnt find ourselves in the position Stoke do now. But, let's not cover old ground before TRO sees!! Its definitely not on Bruce, we were hours from administration before the new owners came in. He isnt to blame either Terry, Snodgrass, Lansbury, Gabby, McCormack, Chester, Whelan, Jedi that was a monster payroll in Bruce full season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Zatman said: Its definitely not on Bruce, we were hours from administration before the new owners came in. He isnt to blame either Terry, Snodgrass, Lansbury, Gabby, McCormack, Chester, Whelan, Jedi that was a monster payroll in Bruce full season My point is that clearly Stoke have a huge wage bill and sit near the bottom. We can thank Bruce we weren't sat near the bottom 3, and in fact made the playoffs, because it is very easily done with a newly relegated club. Many, many examples from previous years. But, that's what I think. You and others disagree. So let's leave it there so we don't start another Bruce argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Mjvilla said: My point is that clearly Stoke have a huge wage bill and sit near the bottom. We can thank Bruce we weren't sat near the bottom 3, and in fact made the playoffs, because it is very easily done with a newly relegated club. Many, many examples from previous years. But, that's what I think. You and others disagree. So let's leave it there so we don't start another Bruce argument. I read it as thanking him for bringing the wage bill down Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Mjvilla said: My point is that clearly Stoke have a huge wage bill and sit near the bottom. We can thank Bruce we weren't sat near the bottom 3, and in fact made the playoffs, because it is very easily done with a newly relegated club. Many, many examples from previous years. But, that's what I think. You and others disagree. So let's leave it there so we don't start another Bruce argument. I think a lot of teams go down and keep a lot of their squad, while we went down and got rid of most, which may have been the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts